Gary Sharp

Stake Increase

23 posts in this topic

Not exactly true GOM. Bigtime Paddy, Thrilling Boris, Shandell, Thrilling Brat and numerous other NZ breds have had their share of Group success in recent years. 

Not only that there's been a few NZ breds who have tasted Group success in Oz in the not so distant past as well - Thrilling Brat, Above All, Know Peace and Clone Your Own spring to mind. Hasn't stopped the Aussies putting up stakes.  

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Flabber,  So true but a drip in the bucket looking at the bigger picture. I know why you did not list the  Aussie successes as well, because you wouldn't have the time. 

This is NZ greyhound racing we are talking about and you are talking about half a dozen NZ  dogs.

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12 hours ago, Flabbergasted said:

Not exactly true GOM. Bigtime Paddy, Thrilling Boris, Shandell, Thrilling Brat and numerous other NZ breds have had their share of Group success in recent years. 

Not only that there's been a few NZ breds who have tasted Group success in Oz in the not so distant past as well - Thrilling Brat, Above All, Know Peace and Clone Your Own spring to mind. Hasn't stopped the Aussies putting up stakes.  

Just look at the waterloo cup field. 7 aussie dogs and 1 kiwi bred

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10 minutes ago, Virtual.Stipe said:

That is awesome news that NZ will now be a part of the Nationals series. Well done GRNZ! :rcfe-like:

Funny really...same arguement comes up....the nz bred dogs wouldn't be here if it wasnt for the aussie dogs coming in......and then we dont want the aussie dogs racing here but it's okay for us to go there?

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1 hour ago, Virtual.Stipe said:

Why are the Aussie breds soooo much bettter?

They arent, its just not viable for people to bring over slow Aussie dogs. I can assure you that for every slow dog in NZ, there's probably 10-20 in Australia. Its not a matter of one side being better than the other, there are simply more dogs bred in Australia that has led to a larger pool of fast dogs and a larger pool of slow dogs in all honesty

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3 hours ago, Hound Fan said:

Funny really...same arguement comes up....the nz bred dogs wouldn't be here if it wasnt for the aussie dogs coming in......and then we dont want the aussie dogs racing here but it's okay for us to go there?

It's not funny at all Stevie,    Using your logic the Aussie dogs wouldn't be there if Cleopatra hadn't decided to champion the breed.

Take the percentage of Aus prizemoney won by NZ dogs in Aus, ever and compare it to the percentage of our prizemoney that has made it's way back across the Tasman either through prizemoney for features, purchase fee's or percentage of all prizemoney and that will give you a clearer picture.  We are a tiny industry years behind most of the rest of the nations that race Greyhounds and the siphoning off of the spoils ensures we will stay the tiniest.

    I know various trainers have tried to breed rear and race and found it too hard so resorted to the readymade product that is often just jetsam from the Au Ocean of dogs and found it a key to enrichment and pseudo fame at the cost to the industry as a whole. Why do we not have specialized breeding or rearing and breaking establishments here? Because there are hundreds of Aussies doing it for us so need .

This of course mirrors life so no surprises but the only thing I find funny about this situation is that you have been there done that Steve and well know the formula. 

I guess it is only a racket when you are not part of it.

 

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Haven't the Opawa, Thrilling and Bigtime breeding programmes been a success?

Arch Lawrence has been breeding a quality staying line for years. His choice not to campaign the dogs n Aussie for better prize money.

Alison Lee thought her NZ breds Clone Your Own and Above All were fast enough, so they were sent to Aussie and the results are now part of history. NZ breds aren't going to win Aussie prize money if they aren't given the chance!

Maybe some of the NZ breeders with limited past success, should look to invest in better brood and sire blood? There's plenty of NZBred Racing Series to promote/encourage NZ breeding. The thoroughbred and harness codes have done that to improve their NZ breds with a lot of success!

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The issue is now they are cutting the amount of litters able to be breed, stopping brood bitches at 7 and limiting Aussie imports. The theory is that good bitches will stop racing as soon as restricted age is over to get 3 litters if you are lucky out of them. so if they are trying to cut this and trying to cut imports then where are the dogs going to come from ? Greyhound racing in nz won’t exsist.....

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20 minutes ago, greyhoundlover said:

The issue is now they are cutting the amount of litters able to be breed, stopping brood bitches at 7 and limiting Aussie imports. The theory is that good bitches will stop racing as soon as restricted age is over to get 3 litters if you are lucky out of them. so if they are trying to cut this and trying to cut imports then where are the dogs going to come from ? Greyhound racing in nz won’t exsist.....

Numbers need to be cut. Its a good step in the right direction. Same thing happened in NSW. Simply put it, un controlled breeding numbers leads to way too many dogs and is simply unsustainable. There is really only two ways to deal with "wastage", either rehome more dogs or cut the number of dogs being imported and bred. Rehoming more dogs has been failing, so the only real way is to control the numbers of dogs. I can tell you this now, if the current number of dogs being put down does not decrease shortly and the current number is maintained, there wont be an industry in 10 years time to try and save

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48 minutes ago, Virtual.Stipe said:

Haven't the Opawa, Thrilling and Bigtime breeding programmes been a success?

Arch Lawrence has been breeding a quality staying line for years. His choice not to campaign the dogs n Aussie for better prize money.

Alison Lee thought her NZ breds Clone Your Own and Above All were fast enough, so they were sent to Aussie and the results are now part of history. NZ breds aren't going to win Aussie prize money if they aren't given the chance!

Maybe some of the NZ breeders with limited past success, should look to invest in better brood and sire blood? There's plenty of NZBred Racing Series to promote/encourage NZ breeding. The thoroughbred and harness codes have done that to improve their NZ breds with a lot of success!

Depends on what you consider is successful? If you consider breeding 100+ dogs a year successful, than by all means go ahead and do it.

Id consider Alison Lee and Arch Lawrence far more successful breeders than the others on this list simply because they breed very few dogs

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2 hours ago, GOM said:

It's not funny at all Stevie,    Using your logic the Aussie dogs wouldn't be there if Cleopatra hadn't decided to champion the breed.

Take the percentage of Aus prizemoney won by NZ dogs in Aus, ever and compare it to the percentage of our prizemoney that has made it's way back across the Tasman either through prizemoney for features, purchase fee's or percentage of all prizemoney and that will give you a clearer picture.  We are a tiny industry years behind most of the rest of the nations that race Greyhounds and the siphoning off of the spoils ensures we will stay the tiniest.

    I know various trainers have tried to breed rear and race and found it too hard so resorted to the readymade product that is often just jetsam from the Au Ocean of dogs and found it a key to enrichment and pseudo fame at the cost to the industry as a whole. Why do we not have specialized breeding or rearing and breaking establishments here? Because there are hundreds of Aussies doing it for us so need .

This of course mirrors life so no surprises but the only thing I find funny about this situation is that you have been there done that Steve and well know the formula. 

I guess it is only a racket when you are not part of it.

 

Mike agree 100pc...until we get the right inforstructor eill fo no were...breaking in pups is so hard and time consuming....I've said all along if grnz used there brains they would set up levin with a track and employ a specialist person to over see breaking in and at the same time have a training venue for young people coming through..

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On 9/26/2018 at 4:33 PM, Rules For Some said:

Numbers need to be cut. Its a good step in the right direction. Same thing happened in NSW. Simply put it, un controlled breeding numbers leads to way too many dogs and is simply unsustainable. There is really only two ways to deal with "wastage", either rehome more dogs or cut the number of dogs being imported and bred. Rehoming more dogs has been failing, so the only real way is to control the numbers of dogs. I can tell you this now, if the current number of dogs being put down does not decrease shortly and the current number is maintained, there wont be an industry in 10 years time to try and save

Sad thing is honestly who is making a real living out of greyhound racing  no one ..you have trainers that train by numbers but numbers cost.....you have someone like Karen that loves strike rates...but do they make money?...you have people that bring in imports...do they really make money....the cost is real high and theres mo garreentee ....you have people that breed there own litters...but again with costs how much do they make....but at the end of it without all these people we dont have greyhond racing.....so let's enjoy everyone's way of staying afloat and doing something they love...

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7 hours ago, MiniJax said:

If people didn’t make money I’m sure that would discontinue. Maybe some have a strong passion in greyhound racing that’s keeps them going. 

How many trainers do you know actually making a decent profit? Most trainers get by, they do not make money though

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On 9/27/2018 at 7:13 PM, Hound Fan said:

Sad thing is honestly who is making a real living out of greyhound racing  no one ..you have trainers that train by numbers but numbers cost.....you have someone like Karen that loves strike rates...but do they make money?...you have people that bring in imports...do they really make money....the cost is real high and theres mo garreentee ....you have people that breed there own litters...but again with costs how much do they make....but at the end of it without all these people we dont have greyhond racing.....so let's enjoy everyone's way of staying afloat and doing something they love...

Seems to me that the people that are running their kennels like a business are doing pretty well, looking after owners, being paid to train dogs with a small stakes bonus as opposed to opting for 50/50 deals and the like.  These people know their incomings and outgoings and sleep well knowing that they don’t have to run the legs off their dogs to stay afloat.

p.s - who wouldn’t like a great strike rate?  As an owner I would love to know that my dogs are being well placed and looked after rather than just going around at every meeting with my fingers crossed!

 

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No one who races dogs as a hobbie, for the love of it, is making money. At best covering costs. Case in point, the best strike rate trainer in our history K.Walsh (G.Harding) does it as a hobbie, and I suspect he is down millions of dollars. 

The only people making money are the same people bringing the game in to disrepute with headlines/allegations of animal cruelty/cheating etc because with 'professionalism' and the need to turn a profit comes cheating, corruption, ruthlessness etc.

Greyhound racing was a 'hobbie sport' it will never be able to go back to that great place, it's too dirty and tainted now. 

 

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