Phantom

JIMMY ROCKET

48 posts in this topic

As a degenerate gambler, with no background or specialist knowledge of racing barring 40 years experience of betting on it, I was curious about Michael Coleman's ride on Jimmy Rocket, the well backed favourite in Race Six at Taupo on Friday.

Jimmy Rocket was a 2.80 shot on fixed odds betting early in the day and started the race as 2.40 favourite. To my ill-informed eye, it appeared that it was not ridden with much urgency especially considering it was a well-backed favourite. Slow away, Coleman settled third last and sat there happily ("Patiently ridden" according  to George Simon) and didn't push out at any stage, allowing 20-1 shot That's Funny  to pass him at the 600m, forcing him to hope for a lucky run through traffic on a tight turning track. In the straight Coleman rode the horse hands and heels, before being "steadied when placed in restricted room just short of the finish."

Before you drown me out with cries of "WTF do you know?", I invite you to view the video of the race and draw your own conclusions as to whether this ride fulfilled the requirement of Rule 636 (1b) which states a person "being the Rider of a horse in a Race, must take all reasonable and permissible measures  throughout the Race to ensure that his horse is given full opportunity to win the Race or to obtain the best possible finishing place."

http://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/47249/6/Race-Detail.aspx

Now, I'm curious as why, in a slow paced race (the previous race - a maiden - was run two seconds faster), Coleman didn't push out in front of That's Funny and swoop round them three wide, which I'm sure would have given him a much better chance of winning the race than staying on the rails, second last or last, behind a wall of horses heading into a 300m straight.

Being the favourite, I was sure the stewards (Messrs Coles (Chairman), Oatham and Robinson) would at least question Coleman on his ride, but if they did question Coleman it didn't appear in the report, which was as follows:

JIMMY ROCKET (M Coleman) – Slow away. Held up passing the 500 metres until obtaining clear running early in the final straight. Steadied when placed in restricted room just short of the finish.

Hmmm. So according to their own report, the well-backed favourite was PLACED IN RESTRICTED ROOM just short of the finish, and yet this doesn't merit asking any questions of the rider?

Ok, again it's probably just the fact that I am a layman and have never ridden a horse myself etc. that is causing me to ask these naive questions, including mainly how the Stewards DIDN'T deem it necessary to question Coleman.

I decided to ask a friend of mine who works in the integrity unit of the VRA what would be the procedure in Victoria when a well-backed favourite was so "patiently ridden" on a tight turning  track with a very short straight. 

Here is his reply:

Those ones normally get a thorough going over..we’d have a look at price movements on dynamic odds and the TAB in NZ and betfair price move

If there was something we didn’t like ie it was very easy we would adjourn and send request to wagering providers to see who backed it

If stable support is absent…a clue

  1. What horses were they following..roughies or fav..if following roughies and then why when you are on a fav
  2. Past runs of horse suggests maybe not good coming through them.
  3. Given that looked to have an opportunity to come wider with the sweepers to get some momentum
  4. Awareness…..given it looks like they’ve gone slow….on pacers unlikely to collapse…it’s going to be a risk.
  5. What were the instructions Mr rider?
  6. Definitely speak to trainer or trainer rep…what were the instructions..(separately) to see what stories we get [we get a lot!!!!]
  7. Did the stable fancy it today..yes?no (why) have you got a communication you sent to the owners.
  8. If it’s a careful ride like that…has it had any problems leading into the race..see above (g)
  9. Then the stuff that normally isn’t in the report…Ask the jockey had they spoken to anyone about the horse leading into the race..Do you have a form person? What is their name…do they bet, did you
  10. And I’d have a look and see if there was a “$” race in this grade for it…..”set” “target” in case this was a maintenance run
  11. Is there a relationship between winner and this one…nude wrestlers…stablemates

Plenty of things to consider - one can only assume Messrs Coles, Oatham and Robinson considered all of these and deemed there to be nothing untoward and then felt it unnecessary to mention that in the report. Because the alternative is that between the three of them they actually did NOT ask even ONE of these things, summing up the ride with a 28 word report which in itself raises two massive red flags which even Mr Magoo could see merited at least two follow up questions to Coleman: (1) Why didn't you move earlier? and (2) Why did you place your mount in "restricted room" during the final 100m of the race?

Thoughts, Racecafers?

 

 

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Excellent post. Well presented.

We are going backwards at a rapid pace. The atmosphere at Group 1 day at Hastings was akin to being at a funeral. The spark has gone out of the game, and quite frankly, I don't think the stripes give a stuff anymore. It's become mundane.

 

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Phantom that's a well researched and articulated post to be fair , that horse is a black booker next time out if ever I've seen one. I would have been a bit disappointed if I'd backed it. I think like any fan you are allowed an opinion on any sport if it's well reasoned , in racing game if you are not allowed an opinion on a ride or you get blasted well anyone over 58kgs might as well spend their money elsewhere. 

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35 minutes ago, dbtab said:

To many bad rides are brushed under the carpet by our stripes ,does not give punters much confidence when you see it happen and nothing done.

Maybe we need more accountability for for poor rides, or a refund for the owners who pay for them, I know in my profession  if you don't preform as expected, you certainly are told in know uncertain  terms.

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Phantom I am a recidivist defender of jockeys. Michael has ridden a number of horses I have shares in and I have no complaints about any of his rides. In my opinion Jimmy Rocket is a very limited conveyance for any jockey. His form line going into Taupo was 080s9. This suggests to me that he can’t do much work in a race and you need to take every short cut you can on him. If Michael had gone earlier and wide it is problematical whether he would have finished most closer than fourth. Many false favourites go around these days. I suggest Jimmy Rocket was one of them.

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1 hour ago, gubellini said:

Phantom I am a recidivist defender of jockeys. Michael has ridden a number of horses I have shares in and I have no complaints about any of his rides. In my opinion Jimmy Rocket is a very limited conveyance for any jockey. His form line going into Taupo was 080s9. This suggests to me that he can’t do much work in a race and you need to take every short cut you can on him. If Michael had gone earlier and wide it is problematical whether he would have finished most closer than fourth. Many false favourites go around these days. I suggest Jimmy Rocket was one of them.

Thanks. I'm not suggesting Coleman did anything wrong. I'm just suggesting the Stewards are not doing their job properly by not questioning him and the connections to the level it would be done in Victoria. You may be right, but either way a steward should be asking at least some of the questions listed above. btw you're not a steward are you? ;-)

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Absolutely Phantom, transparency should be paramount, when the R&T Boards are disbanded then the stewards panels should be looked at also, both RIU and JCA, then and only then will some semblance of confidence return to our industry.

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Hi Phantom no I am not a steward! Currently an owner with shares in eight horses with four different trainers. Having been a track work rider for many years I can tell you that MOST horses have limited ability. Easy to blame jockeys if a horse doesn’t perform when in many cases the horse doesn’t have the ability to win in that particular race!

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12 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Hi Phantom no I am not a steward! Currently an owner with shares in eight horses with four different trainers. Having been a track work rider for many years I can tell you that MOST horses have limited ability. Easy to blame jockeys if a horse doesn’t perform when in many cases the horse doesn’t have the ability to win in that particular race!

Sure but the fact that Jimmy Rocket was bet into 2.40 favourite suggests there were plenty of punters who like me thought it had the ability to win this race. One tipster I followed described as "a moral" and another picked it second with  the comment 

4  - Jimmy Rocket  - Has placed second up and will be improved for that fresh up run at Ruakaka.

and when there is that much money placed on a horse, questions need to be asked, even if the ultimate answer is "the horse wasn't good enough" :)

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Received an email from a leading NZ form analyst re this topic:

Jimmy Rocket won its maiden with Coleman aboard and he took it the outer and clear air....it can sustain a long run....so he has no defence about his handling at Taupo but the stipes are asleep at the wheel as usual....or too matey with some....the connections and stable think its okay as they ran it at G3 and then the G1 NZ Derby....so a midweek at Taupo is a doddle....the problem is the race was just 10K and it can run for three times that next start.....it was a dreadful looking ride for NZ racing......it only gets beat a length and a half ffs.....and is held up the final stages and grabbed hold of.....it should have won for fun......but to any fair eyes it was not tried on to win....

The decision to stay in at the 600m is the key moment Coleman showed his hand by not going wider with a handful of horse that was the favourite...any Stipe in the world should be able to see that bar NZ it seems....Jimmy Rocket was not tried upon to win the race...and that rule has been on the books for a very long time to prosecute...

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Totally agree Phantom. Was a shit ride and no defence really. I'm 100kgs so I have never ridden trackwork but I still have opinion. I've owned plenty of them over the journey and if I owned that one I would be giving the jockey a blast. Stipes are weak as lolly water. 

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Interesting. I don't know the horse at all and have no idea of its form, but from looking at the video he seemed to race like a grinding stayer and wasn't asked to do anything like that really. The jockey made no attempt at all to put him into the race. There should certainly have been questions asked. I do agree he may have been a totally false fav, but as a hot fav questions should have been asked.

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Great post Phantom. NZ stipes across all 3 codes are incompetent and seem to have got worse and worse over the years under Mike Godber's watch. 

The recent Harness Match Fixing scandal, is a result of participants knowing what then can get away with;  because of the "lack of questioning and accountability" the stipes hold them to for past "poor/uncompetitive" performances. They only got caught this time of "alleged Match Fixing" because their phones were tapped.

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The whole thing is mickey mouse and as Scoobs indicates makes us look like a backwater where anything can go on.

I will join the (nearly) 100kg brigade here and declare that while I have ridden a few ponies slowly through English country lanes I have never been anywhere near getting on the back of a racehorse. Fair play to those that do - although I would also observe generally speaking jockeys have limited alternative options outside the occasional hollywood blockbuster which requires diversity of casting.

I love a punt and like pretty serious study around form. One factor in NZ I place increasingly less weight on is who is riding the horse. For every ride lauded as brilliant (generally when they have hugged the rail and got a lucky gap), I will show you a few the same jockey has slaughtered.

The lack of judicial analysis is baffling and Phantom's post here points that out brilliantly (and very cleverly).  

Col

PS -I can confirm though that the stipes do watch some races each meeting - they did manage to suspend and fine our jockey in the GN Hurdles for trying too hard to win :ph34r:

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I suppose like any sportsperson there's a vast gulf in ability, that's why Moore , Dettori, Bowman , Soumillon, Doyle, Buick,  and no doubt J Macc will be doing now  he's well back in the groove are flown around the world to do the business when the big bucks and potential stud values are on the line.Doyle was riding at Yarmouth Thursday , on plane to Australia and rode two top races, put Folkswood into lovely position imho just horse didn't kick on , lame/ground and rode a killer race on Jungle Cat then back on plane to Europe job done. He no doubt done his homework, who to follow , how to negate wide gate on Folkswood etc .It's the difference between a journeyman, a good rider and a top class pro.

Not sure how Moreira is doing in Japan, he all class but I'd be interested to see how he goes on the road week to week  like these international gun jockeys , different tracks , countries week to week. I would guess very very well.

Saw Shane Dye once at Riccarton , he was on a small comeback but even then he stood out a mile as best jockey on show again imho.Just at one with the horse.Great to watch.

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Last at Hastings on Saturday same stable and same outcome read into it what you want

Stipes

"SHERRIF (L Innes) - Held up rounding the bend from the 500 metres and continued to have difficulty obtaining clear running until inside the final 200 metres"

https://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/47346/9/Race-Detail.aspx

 

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Have a look at Darryl Bradley in race 3 at Waipukarau today, riding a first starter, Eternal, the stablemate of the hot favourite in the race. The ride was in fact picked up and penalised in the stipes report, but boy did he need to take desperate action to avoid beating the stablemate. 

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Well articulated post , I remain unconvinced that it wasn't anymore than just bloody stiff , just like Sheriff at Hastings. I guess as we get through the comments we all agree we see too much of this. Unfortunately the handicapping system lends its own type of support.

I have also been around long enough to know that I could be wrong , either way the stipes should be proactive.

Lets face it its hard enough to win a race so it doesn't take too much to not win.

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On 9/25/2018 at 6:38 AM, Phantom said:

As a degenerate gambler, with no background or specialist knowledge of racing barring 40 years experience of betting on it, I was curious about Michael Coleman's ride on Jimmy Rocket, the well backed favourite in Race Six at Taupo on Friday.

Jimmy Rocket was a 2.80 shot on fixed odds betting early in the day and started the race as 2.40 favourite. To my ill-informed eye, it appeared that it was not ridden with much urgency especially considering it was a well-backed favourite. Slow away, Coleman settled third last and sat there happily ("Patiently ridden" according  to George Simon) and didn't push out at any stage, allowing 20-1 shot That's Funny  to pass him at the 600m, forcing him to hope for a lucky run through traffic on a tight turning track. In the straight Coleman rode the horse hands and heels, before being "steadied when placed in restricted room just short of the finish."

Before you drown me out with cries of "WTF do you know?", I invite you to view the video of the race and draw your own conclusions as to whether this ride fulfilled the requirement of Rule 636 (1b) which states a person "being the Rider of a horse in a Race, must take all reasonable and permissible measures  throughout the Race to ensure that his horse is given full opportunity to win the Race or to obtain the best possible finishing place."

http://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/47249/6/Race-Detail.aspx

Now, I'm curious as why, in a slow paced race (the previous race - a maiden - was run two seconds faster), Coleman didn't push out in front of That's Funny and swoop round them three wide, which I'm sure would have given him a much better chance of winning the race than staying on the rails, second last or last, behind a wall of horses heading into a 300m straight.

Being the favourite, I was sure the stewards (Messrs Coles (Chairman), Oatham and Robinson) would at least question Coleman on his ride, but if they did question Coleman it didn't appear in the report, which was as follows:

JIMMY ROCKET (M Coleman) – Slow away. Held up passing the 500 metres until obtaining clear running early in the final straight. Steadied when placed in restricted room just short of the finish.

Hmmm. So according to their own report, the well-backed favourite was PLACED IN RESTRICTED ROOM just short of the finish, and yet this doesn't merit asking any questions of the rider?

Ok, again it's probably just the fact that I am a layman and have never ridden a horse myself etc. that is causing me to ask these naive questions, including mainly how the Stewards DIDN'T deem it necessary to question Coleman.

I decided to ask a friend of mine who works in the integrity unit of the VRA what would be the procedure in Victoria when a well-backed favourite was so "patiently ridden" on a tight turning  track with a very short straight. 

Here is his reply:

Those ones normally get a thorough going over..we’d have a look at price movements on dynamic odds and the TAB in NZ and betfair price move

If there was something we didn’t like ie it was very easy we would adjourn and send request to wagering providers to see who backed it

If stable support is absent…a clue

  1. What horses were they following..roughies or fav..if following roughies and then why when you are on a fav
  2. Past runs of horse suggests maybe not good coming through them.
  3. Given that looked to have an opportunity to come wider with the sweepers to get some momentum
  4. Awareness…..given it looks like they’ve gone slow….on pacers unlikely to collapse…it’s going to be a risk.
  5. What were the instructions Mr rider?
  6. Definitely speak to trainer or trainer rep…what were the instructions..(separately) to see what stories we get [we get a lot!!!!]
  7. Did the stable fancy it today..yes?no (why) have you got a communication you sent to the owners.
  8. If it’s a careful ride like that…has it had any problems leading into the race..see above (g)
  9. Then the stuff that normally isn’t in the report…Ask the jockey had they spoken to anyone about the horse leading into the race..Do you have a form person? What is their name…do they bet, did you
  10. And I’d have a look and see if there was a “$” race in this grade for it…..”set” “target” in case this was a maintenance run
  11. Is there a relationship between winner and this one…nude wrestlers…stablemates

Plenty of things to consider - one can only assume Messrs Coles, Oatham and Robinson considered all of these and deemed there to be nothing untoward and then felt it unnecessary to mention that in the report. Because the alternative is that between the three of them they actually did NOT ask even ONE of these things, summing up the ride with a 28 word report which in itself raises two massive red flags which even Mr Magoo could see merited at least two follow up questions to Coleman: (1) Why didn't you move earlier? and (2) Why did you place your mount in "restricted room" during the final 100m of the race?

Thoughts, Racecafers?

 

 

Entered Saturday , Rotorua, drawn 9.

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