RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Phantom

Greg O'Connor

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https://www.star.kiwi/2018/09/media-personality-caught-up-in-horse-racing-investigation/

THE news that Trackside presenter Greg O'Connor has been questioned by police over the harness race fixing scandal should serve as a warning to all codes of the need to draw clear lines between the media and those involved within the industry when it comes to wagering.

O'Connor has not been charged with anything  but according to the above website he "may now become a key witness as court cases over alleged race-fixing and drug offences unfold over the coming months."

The NZRB declined to comment which is interesting given that O'Connor is pretty much the face of south island harness racing on the channel.

I have no reason to believe O'Connor has done anything wrong but the mere fact that he was involved in the investigation is not a good look for Trackside or by association the NZRB.

But the whole episode will hopefully prompt the RIU to actually do something proactive for once and prohibit media from moonlighting as jockey agents, a massive conflict of interest if ever there was one.

Because you can bet your bottom dollar that once this investigation is over, the National Organised Crime Group are going to turn their eye to the thoroughbred industry, and given O'Connor's involvement in this investigation, the likes of Aiden Rodley and Bevan Sweeney, agents for various jockeys, are an obvious place to start.

Again this is not to besmirch the character of either Rodley or Sweeney. But the thoroughbred industry is in crisis at the moment and it not only needs to be clean, it needs to be SEEN to be not just clean but squeaky clean, which for what it's worth I think it is far from at the moment.

Glenda Hughes was so proud of the fact that they caught David Walker and banned him for five years or whatever, but only a fool would believe he is the only jockey to pull this stunt - he's just the only one to get caught so far.

With the NZRB apparently oblivious to this massive conflict of interest, the RIU needs to act quickly to reduce the possibility of a similar scandal in the thoroughbred industry. You can't have jockey managers presenting on Trackside where they obviously can influence betting massively. They need to be objective but also SEEN to be completely objective - at the moment they are anything but.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SMD is rife said:

How would the average punter view this scenario?

Trainer has $2 favourite in race and puts $1000 to win on another horse in race, not trained by him, which wins.

Perfectly legal under today's rules. You think the average punter would be ok with this?

Really? Trainers are allowed to bet on other horses in races in which they have a runner? As John McEnroe would say, YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!

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2 hours ago, Phantom said:

https://www.star.kiwi/2018/09/media-personality-caught-up-in-horse-racing-investigation/

THE news that Trackside presenter Greg O'Connor has been questioned by police over the harness race fixing scandal should serve as a warning to all codes of the need to draw clear lines between the media and those involved within the industry when it comes to wagering.

O'Connor has not been charged with anything  but according to the above website he "may now become a key witness as court cases over alleged race-fixing and drug offences unfold over the coming months."

The NZRB declined to comment which is interesting given that O'Connor is pretty much the face of south island harness racing on the channel.

I have no reason to believe O'Connor has done anything wrong but the mere fact that he was involved in the investigation is not a good look for Trackside or by association the NZRB.

But the whole episode will hopefully prompt the RIU to actually do something proactive for once and prohibit media from moonlighting as jockey agents, a massive conflict of interest if ever there was one.

Because you can bet your bottom dollar that once this investigation is over, the National Organised Crime Group are going to turn their eye to the thoroughbred industry, and given O'Connor's involvement in this investigation, the likes of Aiden Rodley and Bevan Sweeney, agents for various jockeys, are an obvious place to start.

Again this is not to besmirch the character of either Rodley or Sweeney. But the thoroughbred industry is in crisis at the moment and it not only needs to be clean, it needs to be SEEN to be not just clean but squeaky clean, which for what it's worth I think it is far from at the moment.

Glenda Hughes was so proud of the fact that they caught David Walker and banned him for five years or whatever, but only a fool would believe he is the only jockey to pull this stunt - he's just the only one to get caught so far.

With the NZRB apparently oblivious to this massive conflict of interest, the RIU needs to act quickly to reduce the possibility of a similar scandal in the thoroughbred industry. You can't have jockey managers presenting on Trackside where they obviously can influence betting massively. They need to be objective but also SEEN to be completely objective - at the moment they are anything but.

 

 

Phantom. Agree 100%....however the thoroughbreds’ big problem is the RIU...and they seem to be “afraid” of the JCA...otherwise we would see more enquiries.  If stewards did their job (and perhaps they need a lesson from the ATC guys) we would see a better standard of riding, better follow up with trainers concerning any poor performances, and more veterinary examinations (again, from Vets who would not be under any duress) 

Conflict of interest is a concept our industry is totally ignorant of, blissfully it would seem. Perhaps the industry is too small...to get an objective view...

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5 hours ago, Phantom said:

Really? Trainers are allowed to bet on other horses in races in which they have a runner? As John McEnroe would say, YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!

They're not allowed to lay their own horses, but they are allowed to back other horses in the race (including backing every other horse in the race, which is de facto laying of their horse).

In a 7 horse field, backing horses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 is the same as laying horse 7 (in either case, if horse 7 loses, you win). The first option is legal for the trainer of horse 7, the second is illegal.

It's anti-Betfair paranoia from people who don't understand that, when you back one horse, you're effectively laying all the others. They just see laying as "betting on a horse to lose", and "betting on a horse to lose" as dodgy. Somehow they see "Betting on the All Blacks to beat the Wallabies" as fine, even though it's the same as "Betting on the Wallabies to not beat the All Blacks". This same ignorance is the reason why, while Betfair have been offering to pay NZRB product fees for well over a decade, their offer has only been accepted this year.

 

See page 96: https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/RULES OF RACING (effective from 9 July 2018).pdf

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24 minutes ago, La Zip said:

Phantom. Agree 100%....however the thoroughbreds’ big problem is the RIU...and they seem to be “afraid” of the JCA...otherwise we would see more enquiries.  If stewards did their job (and perhaps they need a lesson from the ATC guys) we would see a better standard of riding, better follow up with trainers concerning any poor performances, and more veterinary examinations (again, from Vets who would not be under any duress) 

Conflict of interest is a concept our industry is totally ignorant of, blissfully it would seem. Perhaps the industry is too small...to get an objective view...

You absolutely nailed it. Some of the people involved in the RIU were at best average stewards themselves, I remember one of them lying about  the state of the track on Auckland Cup day. You see rides every raceday which should be questioned but aren't.

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28 minutes ago, chiknsmack said:

They're not allowed to lay their own horses, but they are allowed to back other horses in the race (including backing every other horse in the race, which is de facto laying of their horse).

In a 7 horse field, backing horses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 is the same as laying horse 7 (in either case, if horse 7 loses, you win). The first option is legal for the trainer of horse 7, the second is illegal.

It's anti-Betfair paranoia from people who don't understand that, when you back one horse, you're effectively laying all the others. They just see laying as "betting on a horse to lose", and "betting on a horse to lose" as dodgy. Somehow they see "Betting on the All Blacks to beat the Wallabies" as fine, even though it's the same as "Betting on the Wallabies to not beat the All Blacks". This same ignorance is the reason why, while Betfair have been offering to pay NZRB product fees for well over a decade, their offer has only been accepted this year.

 

See page 96: https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/RULES OF RACING (effective from 9 July 2018).pdf

Sadly New Zealand's sole betting agency is run by people with no understand of the basics of betting, but are so arrogant they don't see this as a problem. Ignorance and arrogance, the worst combination possible. Throw in all the lawyers, bankers and ex-post office execs and Houston... we have a problem!

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1 hour ago, Phantom said:

You absolutely nailed it. Some of the people involved in the RIU were at best average stewards themselves, I remember one of them lying about  the state of the track on Auckland Cup day. You see rides every raceday which should be questioned but aren't.

I can’t believe some of the rides I see ( check out Matamata R2 earlier this week) I can’t believe there are no hard questions asked....I can’t believe trainers & owners don’t speak up...it seems we’re just racing for other people’s benefit....and that’s why I have no faith in the RIU....they don’t make waves or rattle the cages and they are very happy to accept questionable excuses.....yet someone needs to start shaking the trees...and I’m not sure if it will ever happen...unless we get a new panel of stewards and dismiss the JCA...

where is the Owners Association....?

Note to industry  - yes that includes you, the RIU and the JCA - if you are serious about reform, then start thinking like a business. We need a strong, profitable TAB.....and as it currently stands punters won’t bet on NZ races...so where will the money to fund the industry in the future  come from...you can close all the racecourses under the sun but that’s not going to instil confidence with punters unless there is some fair dinkum policing ...

 

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I questioned my trainer once about a ride some years ago he replied "if you say to much to them they can make it bloody difficult when you start another horse" i LOVE THE GAME BUT MIGHT ADD i HAVE NEVER OWNED A HORSE SINCE AND WENT FROM A $500 a week punter (at times more) to a lazy $20 now and then  

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5 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

They're not allowed to lay their own horses, but they are allowed to back other horses in the race (including backing every other horse in the race, which is de facto laying of their horse).

In a 7 horse field, backing horses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 is the same as laying horse 7 (in either case, if horse 7 loses, you win). The first option is legal for the trainer of horse 7, the second is illegal.

It's anti-Betfair paranoia from people who don't understand that, when you back one horse, you're effectively laying all the others. They just see laying as "betting on a horse to lose", and "betting on a horse to lose" as dodgy. Somehow they see "Betting on the All Blacks to beat the Wallabies" as fine, even though it's the same as "Betting on the Wallabies to not beat the All Blacks". This same ignorance is the reason why, while Betfair have been offering to pay NZRB product fees for well over a decade, their offer has only been accepted this year.

 

See page 96: https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/RULES OF RACING (effective from 9 July 2018).pdf

You only win if you back 6 out of 7 in a seven horse field for even stake if you get winner at  6s  or over so bit different to laying a horse. Lay a horse you don't have to account for a winners SP , it just has to lose to win. But get your point it's open to abuse.

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If a trackside presenter is employed by the racing board, he then puts bets on for a jockey/driver against the rules of racing board  therefore against the rules of his own employer he is aiding and abetting this licence holder in breaking those rules. 

If this is the case I would say the presenter would in these circumstances have a bit of strife on the employment front. Aiding and abetting someone to break the rules of your own Paymaster. 

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5 hours ago, La Zip said:

I can’t believe some of the rides I see ( check out Matamata R2 earlier this week) I can’t believe there are no hard questions asked....I can’t believe trainers & owners don’t speak up...it seems we’re just racing for other people’s benefit....and that’s why I have no faith in the RIU....they don’t make waves or rattle the cages and they are very happy to accept questionable excuses.....yet someone needs to start shaking the trees...and I’m not sure if it will ever happen...unless we get a new panel of stewards and dismiss the JCA...

where is the Owners Association....?

Note to industry  - yes that includes you, the RIU and the JCA - if you are serious about reform, then start thinking like a business. We need a strong, profitable TAB.....and as it currently stands punters won’t bet on NZ races...so where will the money to fund the industry in the future  come from...you can close all the racecourses under the sun but that’s not going to instil confidence with punters unless there is some fair dinkum policing ...

 

La Zip I had a look at Race 2 at Matamata and couldn’t find any fault with the way the horses were ridden. If you are referring to the favourite Mexican Tycoon Matt Cameron had trouble getting around the bend then he raced erratically up the straight. Typical colt antics. Matt was hard pressed steering him let alone riding him out. If that was not the horse you were referring to please post the horses name and I will have another look.

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4 hours ago, Red Rum said:

If a trackside presenter is employed by the racing board, he then puts bets on for a jockey/driver against the rules of racing board  therefore against the rules of his own employer he is aiding and abetting this licence holder in breaking those rules. 

If this is the case I would say the presenter would in these circumstances have a bit of strife on the employment front. Aiding and abetting someone to break the rules of your own Paymaster. 

Ah but the NZRB have shown time and again they don't take betting offences seriously!!  MICK GUERIN was axed at some point after being caught placing a bet on credit, while JASON TAN put on a disguise and went into the Petone TAB to bet on Martina Hingis I think it was when the TAB inverted the prices on one of her matches. GUERIN is closely connected to some of the key players in the harness case, while TAN is back in the NZRB employ after a stint in Hong Kong. So the NZRB were happy to have him back even after he basically tried to steal from them! 

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5 hours ago, 47South said:

I questioned my trainer once about a ride some years ago he replied "if you say to much to them they can make it bloody difficult when you start another horse" i LOVE THE GAME BUT MIGHT ADD i HAVE NEVER OWNED A HORSE SINCE AND WENT FROM A $500 a week punter (at times more) to a lazy $20 now and then  

You are not the lone ranger here. I know many people who used to turn over telephone numbers and who now just have the (very) odd flutter. I put the blame squarely at the door of the NZRB who have never understood the importance of protecting the integrity of the sport. I guarantee there will be more scandals following on from the current harness racing, now that this Organised Crime unit have opened Pandora's box. Most punters sensed this years ago and like you have walked, either to another online agency or from the sport completely. The TAB hierarchy have never understood let alone looked after their customers. Most of the people at the helm are not bettors and have nothing but contempt for their customers, assuming they will always bet because they are degenerate addicts. Well, apparently they were wrong (apart from my case anyway!).

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4 hours ago, gubellini said:

La Zip I had a look at Race 2 at Matamata and couldn’t find any fault with the way the horses were ridden. If you are referring to the favourite Mexican Tycoon Matt Cameron had trouble getting around the bend then he raced erratically up the straight. Typical colt antics. Matt was hard pressed steering him let alone riding him out. If that was not the horse you were referring to please post the horses name and I will have another look.

Me either, but La Zip has Aussie perfection every day on her screen and a horse at Matamata moving out 1 width would qualify for penalty in he mind. I still cant understand why she lowers herself to watch 2nd rate NZ racing.

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7 hours ago, barryb said:

Me either, but La Zip has Aussie perfection every day on her screen and a horse at Matamata moving out 1 width would qualify for penalty in he mind. I still cant understand why she lowers herself to watch 2nd rate NZ racing.

Oh Barry, in a post way back I think I mentioned my Dad was a rails bookmaker, in the days when we had 50,OOO at the races in Sydney,........he knew how to 'pick' dead un's from a hundred yards, and while I'm not saying MT was dead, the ride should have been looked at far more closely........it's called innuendo you see Barry, and as an owner, breeder of winners in three states of Australia I feel I do have a few qualifications to utter disappointments. The horse eased in the betting the other firmed remarkably late...plonked.......in the old days, a message would have been sent to the barriers here, ''we are watching'' would have been the message......but not in amateur hour or play school which is what we see every day over there.....the horse was worked all the way by Michael C, then Matt C starts to look and then shift......did it hang?....it was race experienced and had the rail, anyway....enough......it's another 28 degree day here, blue skies and great racing....so pardon me if I'm distracted......I know it's lost on you Barry, I honestly do, but I admire your passion and wish you the best.

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23 hours ago, La Zip said:

Phantom. Agree 100%....however the thoroughbreds’ big problem is the RIU...and they seem to be “afraid” of the JCA...otherwise we would see more enquiries.  If stewards did their job (and perhaps they need a lesson from the ATC guys) we would see a better standard of riding, better follow up with trainers concerning any poor performances, and more veterinary examinations (again, from Vets who would not be under any duress) 

Conflict of interest is a concept our industry is totally ignorant of, blissfully it would seem. Perhaps the industry is too small...to get an objective view...

What a wonderful summation of things and it all starts at the top  And he has not been that successful this century IMHO

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6 hours ago, La Zip said:

Oh Barry, in a post way back I think I mentioned my Dad was a rails bookmaker, in the days when we had 50,OOO at the races in Sydney,........he knew how to 'pick' dead un's from a hundred yards, and while I'm not saying MT was dead, the ride should have been looked at far more closely........it's called innuendo you see Barry, and as an owner, breeder of winners in three states of Australia I feel I do have a few qualifications to utter disappointments. The horse eased in the betting the other firmed remarkably late...plonked.......in the old days, a message would have been sent to the barriers here, ''we are watching'' would have been the message......but not in amateur hour or play school which is what we see every day over there.....the horse was worked all the way by Michael C, then Matt C starts to look and then shift......did it hang?....it was race experienced and had the rail, anyway....enough......it's another 28 degree day here, blue skies and great racing....so pardon me if I'm distracted......I know it's lost on you Barry, I honestly do, but I admire your passion and wish you the best.

Was chatting to a local stipe recently on a track visit...topic came up about the harness dramas. We reckoned it would be a foolish person to think that this is all confined to the ' cheats on seats'  ,  Thommo's 'superior code' will be just as compromised..IMO.

And my observation was that if officials could actually read a race and police the situation properly, riders and drivers might find it a bit harder to get away with murder. 

He agreed.

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2 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Was chatting to a local stipe recently on a track visit...topic came up about the harness dramas. We reckoned it would be a foolish person to think that this is all confined to the ' cheats on seats'  ,  Thommo's 'superior code' will be just as compromised..IMO.

And my observation was that if officials could actually read a race and police the situation properly, riders and drivers might find it a bit harder to get away with murder. 

He agreed.

It's an astute observation even though it seems obvious. But it's like the elephant in the room. There have been 989 views of this thread but only 10 cafe-ers have commented. Keep quiet and hope no-one notices? Yeah that's worked well so far....

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8 minutes ago, Leggy said:

There are probably a half dozen or so key things drastically wrong with NZ TR racing that must be fixed if it is to have a future - and I mean all of them - integrity is one. Without restoring and building punter confidence, there is no sustainable future.

Good to see you back.... I agree if anyone has done wrong out them and throw them out...but lets see where it all ends first...still innocent until proven otherwise.

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10 hours ago, La Zip said:

Oh Barry, in a post way back I think I mentioned my Dad was a rails bookmaker, in the days when we had 50,OOO at the races in Sydney,........he knew how to 'pick' dead un's from a hundred yards, and while I'm not saying MT was dead, the ride should have been looked at far more closely........it's called innuendo you see Barry, and as an owner, breeder of winners in three states of Australia I feel I do have a few qualifications to utter disappointments. The horse eased in the betting the other firmed remarkably late...plonked.......in the old days, a message would have been sent to the barriers here, ''we are watching'' would have been the message......but not in amateur hour or play school which is what we see every day over there.....the horse was worked all the way by Michael C, then Matt C starts to look and then shift......did it hang?....it was race experienced and had the rail, anyway....enough......it's another 28 degree day here, blue skies and great racing....so pardon me if I'm distracted......I know it's lost on you Barry, I honestly do, but I admire your passion and wish you the best.

Clearly your Australian racing forums are shit as you seem to frequent this one and consistently post Kiwi bashing. No one is pretending that things are anything but a shambles here, what we don't need is you constantly ramming it down our throat, if you don't like then don't watch.

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20 hours ago, Phantom said:

Ah but the NZRB have shown time and again they don't take betting offences seriously!!  MICK GUERIN was axed at some point after being caught placing a bet on credit, while JASON TAN put on a disguise and went into the Petone TAB to bet on Martina Hingis I think it was when the TAB inverted the prices on one of her matches. GUERIN is closely connected to some of the key players in the harness case, while TAN is back in the NZRB employ after a stint in Hong Kong. So the NZRB were happy to have him back even after he basically tried to steal from them! 

I've heard some stunts in my time Phantom, but ripping your own employer wearing a disguise , that's a goody, however got caught so disguises about as good as some trackside expert analysis/tipping , they all look good , don't discount this,   that and the other tipping . 

Though I don't want to knock trackside too much as I appreciate the coveridge to be fair , overseas as well apart from mud track Kawasaki .

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11 minutes ago, barryb said:

Clearly your Australian racing forums are shit as you seem to frequent this one and consistently post Kiwi bashing. No one is pretending that things are anything but a shambles here, what we don't need is you constantly ramming it down our throat, if you don't like then don't watch.

I am more than entitled to put the boot in as I spend $12,000 a month to pay for my Kiwi domiciled horses...and one of my trainers agrees with my sentiments...so take it on the chin Barry....NZ should be the greatest racing jurisdiction on the planet but it’s crap thinking and action that as brought it to its knees...go curl up in front of the chippee and take a dose of sugar to loosen up that bitter mind of yours...

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