Crackthewhip

Police Raids

588 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, The Diceman Cometh said:

Seriously ?????

That heart rendering tear jerker of a testimony should get a couple of month's reduction - but only if you cry very loudly in the witness box 

#justsaying

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The guy made a fair comment does not need to be ridiculed everyone can have their say without the personal stuff getting brought ...thanks.

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29 minutes ago, The Diceman Cometh said:

A fair comment !!!!!!

Is this forum going to become the defence for the accused?

 

No its not but it won't become personal either, there are always two sides to every story and nobody is guilty of anything yet except being investigated... so.

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8 hours ago, 2Piper said:

I see Matt's  drive ( fav ) was very poor indeed but thinking that I rated the winner Storm Prince (Orange) ahead of Matt's drive which paid $3.30 and went great time ; still think outcome would have been same.  J Dunn was another in the race and drove like Matt but was in outsider with no chance really. Think if this race was rigged it was only by Matt. Dexter was second,  trying as usual.

There must be other races that have been fixed for  there to be the others named to be involved. Guess the texts , recordings etc will enlighten us to the actual truth.

Agree. Once Storm Prince got to the front it was always going to win.

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7 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

.......for years I have wondered what drivers talk about when 4 or 5 of them travel long distances together in cars to race meetings.

 

It was common knowledge in 70's and 80's that the "results" were worked on during the long drives from Auckland to the Hawera and Stratford trots.

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1 minute ago, chevy86 said:

It was common knowledge in 70's and 80's that the "results" were worked on during the long drives from Auckland to the Hawera and Stratford trots.

Given many of the current drivers are from extended, and related racing families, there is no doubt the family BBQ, or get together must involve talk on the next days races amongst drivers and trainers, but that would hardly be construed as fixing?  

Which is why the police Case will need to be rock solid, re fixing.... i.e. will need clear evidence (assume they have calls, txt, msgss), and have "intent" to fix, and probably need to show someone close to them, i.e. family or friend benefited from the action.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out... a real shame for the industry no matter what the outcome from here on in.

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When we had a horse in the late 1980's, our trainer / driver told one of the owners he missed the days of the late 70's at Alex Park when him and some very  well known others pretty well worked out some of the results  a few days in advance.  In a real classic he remarked " There are just too many of these young bastards now who want to win every race "  LOL 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

With all these charges under way and drivers stood down it's probably the safest time to.unload on something you like.

Shame no AS horses starting this weekend bit I'm gonna have a crack anyway.

What do others think

You would expect there would be little appetite by anyone to be playing games right now - so tend to agree.

Mind you a mate of mine who is an owner in the game mentioned to me he thinks he might end up with several drives tomorrow night:rcf-laughing-2:

When I said LOL in reply he told me he wasn't joking and that  I was at $8 in drivers challenge ....:ph34r:

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32 minutes ago, chelseacol said:

You would expect there would be little appetite by anyone to be playing games right now - so tend to agree.

Mind you a mate of mine who is an owner in the game mentioned to me he thinks he might end up with several drives tomorrow night:rcf-laughing-2:

When I said LOL in reply he told me he wasn't joking and that  I was at $8 in drivers challenge ....:ph34r:

That's one of your finest efforts Col and there have been many in years gone by.

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14 minutes ago, john legend said:

:rcf-rich-1:bit ironic the'' big police raid on stables'' in the Manawatu turned out to be a discussion withe manawatu racing clubs racing manager.was a bit annoying as say only 6 or 7 harness racing trainers here.

Spectacular headlines are the way of the press. Covers a lot of their inept reporting.

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19 minutes ago, john legend said:

:rcf-rich-1:bit ironic the'' big police raid on stables'' in the Manawatu turned out to be a discussion withe manawatu racing clubs racing manager.was a bit annoying as say only 6 or 7 harness racing trainers here.

That was Brent Wall, who is one of those charged in Court.

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14 hours ago, Alittlebitofknowledge said:

 

while I'm ranting can we stop calling them bad apples etc most of them involved, have for the most part done plenty for the Industry.... they have worked hard and not just for there own benefit, like most in the Industry do. They have helped lots of people out , giving jobs,advice and great racing thrills to many. They are people who will give the time of day to anybody and are very pleasant to be around. You can at least show them a tiny bit of respect as human beings at least if nothing else.

Now I'm not defending any actions. They will be held to account and face the consequences for their mistakes.. but seriously a lot of u need to get of your high horse when talking about them.

Never realised that this was for perfect people only.

 

PS

If everyone that ever did mdma got charged there would be 100,000 cases before the courts every year. Slot with higher profiles than these

#justsaying

 

 i accept everything you say about these people, I do.   Im guessing your a trainer/driver yourself and can envisage the personal trauma those involved are currently going through. However I think you are totally underscoring how their actions have effected the trust other participants and the public have in them and the harness industry.  These people are not above the law,they are not any smarter than others,they may think they are, however they are not.    They do not deserve any more sympathy that a low level industry player, in fact quite the opposite.   They are being judged on their actions,no one elses. they have brought it upon themselves.       Having said that in my opinion I do believe those who have been involved in brushes with racing authorities tend to magnify the whole situation in their own minds.  They just have to ride it out,take the criticism and changes to their lives,get on with it and become better people making better decisions and being better examples to others. That can only come in time, for the moment they just have to ride out the controversy and criticism of their actions(not personalities)as best they can. What else did they expect,they deserve it.

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10 hours ago, The Diceman Cometh said:

A fair comment !!!!!!

Is this forum going to become the defence for the accused?

 

How?

Did I every say they shouldn't be held to account and punished for their actions??....No

Did I defend anyone or claim their innocence??....No

Also never said that you don't have a right to have an opinion on the situation..... 

Keep demeaning people thou mate.... Hope it makes ya feel better.

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2 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

You have proof of that if not enough of the rumour an innuendo please... you know the rules Chevy.

One of them drove for me Scooby and offered up but I was not a serious punter.  Great 'font of knowledge" the 3 Furlongs? Hotel. Just relevant discourse acknowledging it has gone on for years and these millennials must have inherited it from somewhere. Besides, much easier to pull it off in harness racing with the ability to get "locked away" or with a bit of team driving.

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1 hour ago, tonkatime said:

According to newshub last night all bar Matt Anderson have name suppression.

Stuff disagree...hope they have details right....:rolleyes:

This is quoted from that stuff article:

"Stuff understands the 26-year-old is Matt Anderson, who is widely regarded as one of harness racing's brightest young prospects.

Four men aged 34, 40, 41 and 44 were due to appear in Christchurch District Court on Tuesday next week on match-fixing charges. Stuff understands the men are Nigel McGrath, John Dunn, Blair Orange and Andrew Stuart.

A 41-year-old woman would appear in court the same day on two counts of supplying Class B drugs. Stuff understands she is champion driver Natalie Rasmussen.

A 47-year-old man, who Stuff understands is Brent Wall, 47, has been charged with deception by match-fixing and is due to appear in Palmerston North District Court, also on Tuesday, police said."

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Court Proceedings from Wednesday reported by Stuff:

Four people were remanded when they appeared in the Christchurch District Court on Wednesday facing charges of deceptive practice or drug offences. Judge Tony Couch took the unusual step of suppressing the details of all the charges for two of the accused, and would only allow the general nature of the charges to be reported.

Matthew Anderson, 26, a shedhand of Woodend, was charged with obtaining by deception and drugs charges. He was remanded on bail without plea to September 11.  Anderson's defence counsel Philip Watts sought interim suppression but it was refused by Couch. His bail conditions included not to attend horse racing meetings, trials, or work-outs. He is also charged with three counts of supplying a class B drug, and one charge of possessing the drug for supply.

A 49-year-old Christchurch man was remanded on bail to September 26 on charges of supplying, offering to supply, or possession of various sorts of drugs. Defence counsel Linda Drummond asked for interim suppression because of the high level of interest in the case and because identification was an issue. Police did not oppose the order.  Judge Couch granted the order which applied to his name, address, and occupation.

A 30-year-old Christchurch man was charged with offering to supply a class B drug, and offering to supply it to several other people, as well as unlawful possession of a restricted weapon.  He was remanded without plea to September 26, but when Judge Couch refused name suppression, defence counsel Andrew McCormick said it would be appealed to the High Court and the order has been continued until the hearing, if papers are filed.

A fourth man, Elie Georges Sawma, a Papanui hairdresser, aged 42, faced nine charges of supplying or offering to supply the class B drug, namely ecstasy. He was remanded on bail to October 4, without plea. No suppressions were sought in his case. 

Those charged to date are trainer/drivers Blair Orange, John Dunn, Nigel McGrath, Natalie Rasmussen, Matt Anderson, Andrew Stuart, Manawatū thoroughbred racing administrator Brent Wall, Christchurch hairdresser Elie Georges Sawma and another two who cannot be named, Stuff understands.

McGrath, Dunn, Orange and Stuart are expected to appear in the Christchurch District Court on Tuesday next week (11 September) on match-fixing charges. A 41-year-old woman is expected to appear in court the same day on two counts of supplying Class B drugs.

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5 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

You have proof of that if not enough of the rumour an innuendo please... you know the rules Chevy.

I know you try your hardest Scooby but you will always have people "in the know" who just can't resist slagging off with what they "think" and what "info" they have.  Just wondering whether the mention of all the names of those involved actually breaches the court suppression orders

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2 minutes ago, kilcoyne said:

I know you try your hardest Scooby but you will always have people "in the know" who just can't resist slagging off with what they "think" and what "info" they have.  Just wondering whether the mention of all the names of those involved actually breaches the court suppression orders

Just balancing the ledger with truth to counter all those puritanical types with their heads in the sand. Hasn't stopped me spending heaps in the game but I am realistic about the odds, and the human frailties when it comes to money, lust,alcohol or any other temptations thrust in front of people.

It's not "end of the world" stuff this latest episode, but acknowledge it has probably occurred to some extent (as I know it has happened historically), have another drag on the weed, and move on.

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10 minutes ago, kilcoyne said:

I know you try your hardest Scooby but you will always have people "in the know" who just can't resist slagging off with what they "think" and what "info" they have.  Just wondering whether the mention of all the names of those involved actually breaches the court suppression orders

Those Stuff reports came out before they went to Court and received name suppression, apart from Anderson.

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