Mattski

Messara Racing Review Full Report and 17 Key points

417 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Phantom said:

No., The New Zealand TAB. They want to outsource their fixed odds product because they have no idea how to run a sports betting operation which they have proved time and again over the last 20 years. There is SOME money heading offshore definitely, but again you can bet it is nowhere near the figure Allen and Hughes have made up in their campaign to introduce Race Fields Legislation. Sportsbet? Any company surviving in the international market would obviously compete very favourably against the bloated incompetent TAB. But if they TAB don't want  to offer fixed odds betting, they should just give up their license, not be allowed to outsource it to an overseas company. The most sensible solution is to offer licenses up for tender to a select number of operators, The betting industry needs competition, not the transference of the existing monopoly. 

They aren't outsourcing anything as i understand it. They're buying a platform from an overseas vendor which most do here including sportsbet, and getting the feeds from paddy power so they don't have to create and manage all their markets manually which will have benefit especially for live betting, shit they'd love live betting online here, they've been moaning about if for years.

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1 minute ago, pakari said:

Then double the win/place pools to account for fixed odds. I think you're underestimating how many people over here bet on our product.

The TAB are pumping wall to wall racing over here, have a look at the Indian racing sportsbet are sticking up too, no form, no silks shit vision and people still bet on it otherwise they wouldn't offer it.

Racing;'s overall popularity is at an all time low in NZ, it's now down to about 1%. You might be overestimating how much the TAB take on their fixed odds markets. They tend to over-react with any kind of a half decent bet (if they accept it) which doesn't suggest a massive turnover. All the overseas firms will offer NZ racing because it's easy, they just have to load the fields and prices and let their clients bet away. And the % the legislation is asking for is so low they may well be happy to pay it. I'm just saying the figures of $17-20 million which I have heard NZRB employees state as guaranteed returns from the legislation have no basis in fact whatsoever, and the actual return to the industry will be nothing like it. It's a myth, like Typhoon and Triple Trio.

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9 minutes ago, pakari said:

Then double the win/place pools to account for fixed odds. I think you're underestimating how many people over here bet on our product.

The TAB are pumping wall to wall racing over here, have a look at the Indian racing sportsbet are sticking up too, no form, no silks shit vision and people still bet on it otherwise they wouldn't offer it.

They are that desperate for anything, they'll do anything.....

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5 minutes ago, pakari said:

They aren't outsourcing anything as i understand it. They're buying a platform from an overseas vendor which most do here including sportsbet, and getting the feeds from paddy power so they don't have to create and manage all their markets manually which will have benefit especially for live betting, shit they'd love live betting online here, they've been moaning about if for years.

Section 7 of the recommendations made by Messara:

 

7. Begin negotiations for the outsourcing of the TAB’s commercial activities to an international wagering operator, to gain the significant advantages of scale.

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26 minutes ago, La Zip said:

If you need to ask that question then you will never understand the answer.

I understand 3% of all turrnover is a reasonable amount, i also don't underestimate how much is wagered on the NZ product.....

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1 minute ago, Phantom said:

Racing;'s overall popularity is at an all time low in NZ, it's now down to about 1%. You might be overestimating how much the TAB take on their fixed odds markets. They tend to over-react with any kind of a half decent bet (if they accept it) which doesn't suggest a massive turnover. All the overseas firms will offer NZ racing because it's easy, they just have to load the fields and prices and let their clients bet away. And the % the legislation is asking for is so low they may well be happy to pay it. I'm just saying the figures of $17-20 million which I have heard NZRB employees state as guaranteed returns from the legislation have no basis in fact whatsoever, and the actual return to the industry will be nothing like it. It's a myth, like Typhoon and Triple Trio.

Absolutely....it's another Grimms fairytale, but I've said it before, there is none so dangerous as those that believe their own bullshit.

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JM also tried to stress as did The Hon Winston, they have been borrowing against reserves, and that if you ask an investor is the most dangerous strategy on the planet.....they are a collective of fools, totally delusional, and they have been outed!!!!

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4 minutes ago, La Zip said:

Absolutely....it's another Grimms fairytale, but I've said it before, there is none so dangerous as those that believe their own bullshit.

Right. Hughes and Allen don't know the answers or else they would be actually solving the problem instead of inventing the next El Dorado to keep them in their jobs for another year or two. The problem is they keep employing people who have no experience in the industry a la Hickton, Bayliss etc etc. Petone is full of Lawyers, Bankers and the latest is Postal Workers ffs. It's mind-boggling.

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So we just need to...Double the Stakes! Why did anyone else think of that?

Now we just need more young people, More people opening new accounts, and not get creamed by the Aussie TAB as they screw down the race opportunities once we're trying to compete with Aussie meetings for screen time.

What could possibly go wrong?

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1 minute ago, La Zip said:

JM also tried to stress as did The Hon Winston, they have been borrowing against reserves, and that if you ask an investor is the most dangerous strategy on the planet.....they are a collective of fools, totally delusional, and they have been outed!!!!

And the fucking code has been wasting every cent they’ve gained, and some, on stakes.....and this fucker wants more money to go to the codes, to waste on stakes......that’ll work....NOT......

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9 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Section 7 of the recommendations made by Messara:

 

7. Begin negotiations for the outsourcing of the TAB’s commercial activities to an international wagering operator, to gain the significant advantages of scale.

I'm referring to your comment "They want to outsource their fixed odds product because they have no idea how to run a sports betting operation which they have proved time and again over the last 20 years. " I am aware of what Messara recommended

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Just now, pakari said:

I'm referring to your comment "They want to outsource their fixed odds product because they have no idea how to run a sports betting operation which they have proved time and again over the last 20 years. " I am aware of what Messara recommended

Yeah. And? What part don't you understand or agree with?

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After reading the largely ill informed and negative comments in this section about the Messara report i can only conclude that the industry is stuffed and we might as well close it down now and save ourselves another 10 years of stress and pointless arguments.

Yes the report may not be correct in every aspect (what business plans are??) but the overall direction is spot on.

i can only conclude that those of you who choose to bag it either have vested interests which colour your opinions or have no idea.

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8 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Yeah. And? What part don't you understand or agree with?

The bit about the TAB outsourcing their existing sports betting operation cos they're not, they're buying a fixed odds platform and getting the data from paddy power

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25 minutes ago, fitzy said:

After reading the largely ill informed and negative comments in this section about the Messara report i can only conclude that the industry is stuffed and we might as well close it down now and save ourselves another 10 years of stress and pointless arguments.

Yes the report may not be correct in every aspect (what business plans are??) but the overall direction is spot on.

i can only conclude that those of you who choose to bag it either have vested interests which colour your opinions or have no idea.

Show me one single idea in that report that hasn’t already been suggested, debated, and proved to be impractical then.

And while you’re there help me understand how outsourcing to Tabcorp ( you can only sell the family jewellery once ) can help NZ, we need to retain all our profits for NZ, not just be the recipient of some margins generated by a listed company that’s accountable to Australian shareholders.

How about Trackside, do you seriously think any Ozzie scheduler or producer is going to prioritise NZ Racing over theirs ? You’re pulling yourself if you do.

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2 minutes ago, pakari said:

The bit about the TAB outsourcing their existing sports betting operation cos they're not, they're buying a fixed odds platform and getting the data from paddy power

What data you think they are getting from Paddy Power?

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1 minute ago, Phantom said:

What data you think they are getting from Paddy Power?

They're buying a data feed like almost every other bookmaker in the world does mate, you think they all do it themselves??

They would still be managing the risk themselves so where is the outsourcing?

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1 minute ago, pakari said:

They're buying a data feed like almost every other bookmaker in the world does mate, you think they all do it themselves??

They would still be managing the risk themselves so where is the outsourcing?

I've worked in the industry for 20 years for overseas firms and never heard of a "data feed". And how can you ask where is the outsourcing when the Messara report clearly recommends they "begin negotiations for the OUTSOURCING of the the TAB's commercial activities to an international wagering operator." 

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26 minutes ago, fitzy said:

After reading the largely ill informed and negative comments in this section about the Messara report i can only conclude that the industry is stuffed and we might as well close it down now and save ourselves another 10 years of stress and pointless arguments.

Yes the report may not be correct in every aspect (what business plans are??) but the overall direction is spot on.

i can only conclude that those of you who choose to bag it either have vested interests which colour your opinions or have no idea.

No... people are expressing opinions so you can do that to everyone is allowed a voice the INDUSTRY MUST get this right and we all need to work together...not fight.

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Doubling stakes by handing over the till keys. Almost sounds too good to be true.

But what if it doesn't pay when outsourced? Then what?
What if we become the fat that later gets trimmed in order to keep those over the ditch going. Like that bit of a lizards tail that falls off if they ever get caught, to become a life-saving, sacrificial distraction..

We'd be a little fish in a big pond with the Aussies and there's no going back to the old pond that was fine just had too many predators at one end

Better the devil you know.
End of the battlers

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1 minute ago, Phantom said:

I've worked in the industry for 20 years for overseas firms and never heard of a "data feed". And how can you ask where is the outsourcing when the Messara report clearly recommends they "begin negotiations for the OUTSOURCING of the the TAB's commercial activities to an international wagering operator." 

Like I said a few times now, I'm not referring to the Messara recommendation on outsourcing i'm referring to your comment where you said the NZRB want to outsource their fixed odds product.

If you've worked in the industry for 20 years you would be well aware of companies such as Bet Radar and other B2B providers.....

 

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1 minute ago, pakari said:

Like I said a few times now, I'm not referring to the Messara recommendation on outsourcing i'm referring to your comment where you said the NZRB want to outsource their fixed odds product.

If you've worked in the industry for 20 years you would be well aware of companies such as Bet Radar and other B2B providers.....

 

Ok I can't see the difference between what we are talking about so I give up - let's wait and see exactly what the follow up from the report then we can debate the merits. Obviously I'm familiar with Radar et al but I don't understand what the TAB would get from PP? Scrape their prices? They already do that with another firm without paying for it so would seem a dumb move to me.

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5 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Ok I can't see the difference between what we are talking about so I give up - let's wait and see exactly what the follow up from the report then we can debate the merits. Obviously I'm familiar with Radar et al but I don't understand what the TAB would get from PP? Scrape their prices? They already do that with another firm without paying for it so would seem a dumb move to me.

PP offer event management, pricing and resulting service as a B2B service, its what sportsbet use

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1 minute ago, pakari said:

PP offer event management, pricing and resulting service as a B2B service, its what sportsbet use

Ok and if they are as you say managing their liabilities from petone, what do they need to outsource? 

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3 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Ok and if they are as you say managing their liabilities from petone, what do they need to outsource? 

I never said thy were outsourcing anything, u did! I was trying to understand how by doing what most other sports books in the world do its outsourcing. Maybe if PP  do it all then it is outsourced, don't see how you'd make money if they do it all tho?

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