Mattski

Messara Racing Review Full Report and 17 Key points

417 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, hedley said:

How much does NZTR and the R.B. give to the upkeep of tracks and their  super structures?

 

i can't recall ever reading anywhere.. an actual amount., this is very important..i need a 'trainspotter' like Leggy  to hunt this out for me/us please . . .Cheers Champ :)

 

Also found this in the 2016/17 Annual Report

The infrastructure projects reserve was set up in 2010/2011 to fund critical projects at strategic and significant venues. Since 2011 NZTR has set aside $4,566,951 to help fund these projects

 

Yes, so 'buggar all' in the big scheme of things..a catalytical amount so as to show that some funds are there and that they're doing something that should be their earnest role.

Their claim that there's 20 odd tracks that need closing down because they've been costing the industry critical amounts of funds to keep them buoyant..is just bullshit.

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Laytown in few days , Irish Turf Club short money after Curragh rebuild , selling the 7 furlongs of prime irish beach under locals noses to Yank gazillionaire , gazillionaire putting up fences , building private resort . Money will prop up the Irish Champions weekend at Leopardstown prize fund for next three years. 

Same reasoning as taking tracks and selling ? 

 

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It's the one day a year Laytown races this week.Last meeting under rules there as the Irish Turf Club have sold the 7 furlong section of public beach to  a Yank billionaire who plans to build big security fences around  private resort for the rich . The locals can use the beach up to the point of sale.

The money received by the Irish Turf Club will be used to cover the Curragh rebuild and prop up stakes at Leopardstown's  champion day for next four years to keep pace with world's elite raceday.

The local kids are reported to say they hope the multi millionaire owners have a wonderful champions day and they will get their parents to buy a B and Q sandpit. 

 

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1 hour ago, L.J.Shannon said:

 Your right Woodville is a very good track probably in my opinion because it is of a good soil type , has a outstanding grass root system and has No Irrigation. 

As was Opaki back in the day, one of the best, and look what happened there.

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38 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

It's the one day a year Laytown races this week.Last meeting under rules there as the Irish Turf Club have sold the 7 furlong section of public beach to  a Yank billionaire who plans to build big security fences around  private resort for the rich . The locals can use the beach up to the point of sale.

The money received by the Irish Turf Club will be used to cover the Curragh rebuild and prop up stakes at Leopardstown's  champion day for next four years to keep pace with world's elite raceday.

The local kids are reported to say they hope the multi millionaire owners have a wonderful champions day and they will get their parents to buy a B and Q sandpit. 

 

What happens after Year 4 RR...??  Short term gain for long term pain...??

And why some billionaire would want to build a fancy Resort on an Irish beach is another mystery......:rolleyes:

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14 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

What happens after Year 4 RR...??  Short term gain for long term pain...??

And why some billionaire would want to build a fancy Resort on an Irish beach is another mystery......:rolleyes:

Om, the plan might be .End year four they get someone in from overseas to whizz around the tracks , drive fast past head office in case he sees pay packets of administrators  then they will maybe try take half of the Dublin  guiness factory to sell because they reason lots of guiness has been drunk on Irish racecourses. 

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2 hours ago, L.J.Shannon said:

Hang on La Zip these are ex owners/investors good business people in their own industry that have given reasons why they would not waste there time with this industry and bingo this was one of the main ones so you are telling me by your statement that the owners privacy is solely at the discretion  of Horse Trainers ( I'm picking you have a Horse Trainers license) ,   Where did I say Gambling is a DEMON?, I think when looking for someone  talking rubbish and laughable maybe go into bathroom and look in the mirror ?  . "since God's dog chased a stick trainers will covert or divulge information" He who invested owns and has paid all costs  for everything obviously in your opinion has no rights. and you tell me that this is not a reason owners  may have left the industry in the droves ? Your right Woodville is a very good track probably in my opinion because it is of a good soil type , has a outstanding grass root system and has No Irrigation. 

No I don't hold a trainers license LJ...but my husband did.  A licensed trainer at Flemington and Rosehill....but as I said, we trained for a rails bookmaker and a leading lawyer who was a also a director of one of the biggest stud farms in NZ.  They were very large punters(up to $100K per bet) ....and whilst we always kept our owners counsel, respected their privacy and never divulged to any what the other's horse was doing. On Numerous occasions we were approached by "colourful racing identities" for the inside info as we were a well known punting stable and the answer was always the same - none of your business  If there was a "plunge" that was not from the stable, it in most cases can originate from a track rider or the clocker at the track....and in today's age of video and NZ trainers obsession with trialling, there is any amount of ways that someone "stole" the odds....

Perhaps the NZ Trainers Association should be upset with your comments and your insinuations concerning trainers integrity....

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8 hours ago, La Zip said:

No I don't hold a trainers license LJ...but my husband did.  A licensed trainer at Flemington and Rosehill....but as I said, we trained for a rails bookmaker and a leading lawyer who was a also a director of one of the biggest stud farms in NZ.  They were very large punters(up to $100K per bet) ....and whilst we always kept our owners counsel, respected their privacy and never divulged to any what the other's horse was doing. On Numerous occasions we were approached by "colourful racing identities" for the inside info as we were a well known punting stable and the answer was always the same - none of your business  If there was a "plunge" that was not from the stable, it in most cases can originate from a track rider or the clocker at the track....and in today's age of video and NZ trainers obsession with trialling, there is any amount of ways that someone "stole" the odds....

Perhaps the NZ Trainers Association should be upset with your comments and your insinuations concerning trainers integrity....

You are right La Zip as in my business and the majority of businesses that operate successfully Clients information is private , It doesn't matter who you train for bookmakers lawyers , the queen mother , the pope,  john smith from corner dairy , the biggest stud farm or joe blogg's with 1 broodmare in his name .  its all about respecting and protecting  your clients information. As in my post the Resistance my wife faced trying to syndicate ,this was one of the reasons that cropped up.  Insinuation hmmmm  Perception.

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RACEFIELDS LEGLISLATION . (10) Introduce Race Field and Point Of Consumption Tax legislation expeditiously. These two measures will bring New Zealand’s racing industry into line with its Australian counterparts and provide much needed additional revenue.

I know some think this was doomed to fail , not fit for purpose was the term but that opinion was wrong according to Messara . Here's a reminder of the potential .

 FY13 Racing New South Wales received $66.4 million in fees and associated interest as a result of race  fields  legislation.  In  the  same  period,  Racing  Victoria  received  $78.1  million  and  Racing 
Queensland received $30.5 million from having race fields legislation in place.

Also John ALLEN  2017 , What I can tell you is that NZRB is responding. Our top priorities right now are to work with the Government  deliver the Racefields legislation before this year’s September election, to design and implement the FOB solution, and to drive our Customer and Channels strategic work. We are confident we will deliver an additional $45 million to the industry in 2018/19, rising to an additional $60 million in 2019/20. Our Board is also expected to consider whether they can ‘bring forward’ the distribution of some of the benefits of these initiatives at their meeting later this month. 

So clearly Messara and the Racing Board are confident this will deliver but what happened was an election and someone convinced Winston it was not fit for purpose , his words and those in his ear .

Now if racefields leglislation had passed through parliament and succeeded before Winston and his advisors/doubters became involved would we still  be facing the mass closure and confiscation of assets , I doubt it , that type of lift for the industry would have stopped this type of move in it's tracks .

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1 hour ago, tripple alliance said:

RACEFIELDS LEGLISLATION . (10) Introduce Race Field and Point Of Consumption Tax legislation expeditiously. These two measures will bring New Zealand’s racing industry into line with its Australian counterparts and provide much needed additional revenue.

I know some think this was doomed to fail , not fit for purpose was the term but that opinion was wrong according to Messara . Here's a reminder of the potential .

 FY13 Racing New South Wales received $66.4 million in fees and associated interest as a result of race  fields  legislation.  In  the  same  period,  Racing  Victoria  received  $78.1  million  and  Racing 
Queensland received $30.5 million from having race fields legislation in place.

Also John ALLEN  2017 , What I can tell you is that NZRB is responding. Our top priorities right now are to work with the Government  deliver the Racefields legislation before this year’s September election, to design and implement the FOB solution, and to drive our Customer and Channels strategic work. We are confident we will deliver an additional $45 million to the industry in 2018/19, rising to an additional $60 million in 2019/20. Our Board is also expected to consider whether they can ‘bring forward’ the distribution of some of the benefits of these initiatives at their meeting later this month. 

So clearly Messara and the Racing Board are confident this will deliver but what happened was an election and someone convinced Winston it was not fit for purpose , his words and those in his ear .

Now if racefields leglislation had passed through parliament and succeeded before Winston and his advisors/doubters became involved would we still  be facing the mass closure and confiscation of assets , I doubt it , that type of lift for the industry would have stopped this type of move in it's tracks .

You obviously haven't read the DIA report on this or any independent analysis. The NZRB won't release theirs. They just keep spruiking their numbers and have persuaded Messara perhaps. I frankly think that at least the Racefields component should be expedited but doubt it will be worth more than a mil or 2 to the TR industry immediately and they can put their own agreements in place anyway if they want to. The bookies have offered to pay, some a decade ago but no-one bothered. Why not if it was worth so much?

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3 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

RACEFIELDS LEGLISLATION . (10) Introduce Race Field and Point Of Consumption Tax legislation expeditiously. These two measures will bring New Zealand’s racing industry into line with its Australian counterparts and provide much needed additional revenue.

I know some think this was doomed to fail , not fit for purpose was the term but that opinion was wrong according to Messara . Here's a reminder of the potential .

 FY13 Racing New South Wales received $66.4 million in fees and associated interest as a result of race  fields  legislation.  In  the  same  period,  Racing  Victoria  received  $78.1  million  and  Racing 
Queensland received $30.5 million from having race fields legislation in place.

Also John ALLEN  2017 , What I can tell you is that NZRB is responding. Our top priorities right now are to work with the Government  deliver the Racefields legislation before this year’s September election, to design and implement the FOB solution, and to drive our Customer and Channels strategic work. We are confident we will deliver an additional $45 million to the industry in 2018/19, rising to an additional $60 million in 2019/20. Our Board is also expected to consider whether they can ‘bring forward’ the distribution of some of the benefits of these initiatives at their meeting later this month. 

So clearly Messara and the Racing Board are confident this will deliver but what happened was an election and someone convinced Winston it was not fit for purpose , his words and those in his ear .

Now if racefields leglislation had passed through parliament and succeeded before Winston and his advisors/doubters became involved would we still  be facing the mass closure and confiscation of assets , I doubt it , that type of lift for the industry would have stopped this type of move in it's tracks .

Perhaps I should have added this from the report , Racefield Legislation (Betting Information Use Charges) has been a significant generator of revenue for the racing industries of all States and Territories of Australia over the past decade. The NSW Legislation (Betting and Racing Act 1998 (NSW)) has enabled Racing NSW to significantly improve the finances and future viability of the NSW Thoroughbred Racing Industry.  In fact, since the enactment of the legislation Racing NSW has generated revenue of more than $650 million for the thoroughbred racing industry in New South Wales. 

So Messara says it works and he's provided the proof  ,$650,000,000  , again I ask , would we be closing and selling tracks if this had been implemented on time , around 10 months ago?

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1 hour ago, tripple alliance said:

Perhaps I should have added this from the report , Racefield Legislation (Betting Information Use Charges) has been a significant generator of revenue for the racing industries of all States and Territories of Australia over the past decade. The NSW Legislation (Betting and Racing Act 1998 (NSW)) has enabled Racing NSW to significantly improve the finances and future viability of the NSW Thoroughbred Racing Industry.  In fact, since the enactment of the legislation Racing NSW has generated revenue of more than $650 million for the thoroughbred racing industry in New South Wales. 

So Messara says it works and he's provided the proof  ,$650,000,000  , again I ask , would we be closing and selling tracks if this had been implemented on time , around 10 months ago?

For heaven's sake can't you read? Firstly, that's $650m over 20 years on NSW racing, about 32m a year on product that people want to bet on, not the crap product we are producing that less and less people want to bet on. If you do what I suggest and read the DIA RIS then you'll see that they estimate something like $5.1m from the information use charge  with 100% compliance across all 3 codes, $6.2m including sports, about $2-3m a year for TR as I already said. They also estimate that the PoC charge may cost more to operate than it generates. There is also the argument that the PoC should go to the taxpayer, not the racing industry anyway. You are dreaming.

The figures bandied about by John Allen and the RB I'm afraid are fake news. If they had any sound basis they surely would have provided that to stakeholders. They simply don't hold water from any robust analysis. You've been sucked in by hype if you believe that.

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On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 at 11:28 AM, Dave  <> wrote:

Mr Allen

 

I have a friend who is a licensed bookmaker based in Jamaica who is interested in offering New Zealand racing to his customers and would like to pay for the rights as per the impending Race Fields legislation. 

 

What is the best way for him to go about  this? Should he contact you directly or is there someone else responsible for signing up overseas firms?

 

Regards

 

Dave P

 

Thanks Dave. I appreciate you raising this opportunity. I will talk to relevant members of my team and come back to you. Regards, John

 

still waiting....

 
 

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From the Betfair submission on the Bill.....

 

71.
Betfair attempted to enter into a voluntary Product Fee and Integrity Agreement with New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing (NZTR), Harness Racing New Zealand (HRNZ) and Greyhound Racing New Zealand (GRNZ) in 2007. That is, Betfair would have voluntarily paid product fees and also provided access to integrity information to help NZTR, HRNZ and GRNZ maintain public confidence in New Zealand racing. Regrettably, the NZRB objected to the voluntary agreement being established which has meant the three racing codes lost the opportunity to collect voluntary Product Fees for the last 10 years and access valuable integrity tools.

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1 minute ago, Leggy said:

From the Betfair submission on the Bill.....

 

71.
Betfair attempted to enter into a voluntary Product Fee and Integrity Agreement with New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing (NZTR), Harness Racing New Zealand (HRNZ) and Greyhound Racing New Zealand (GRNZ) in 2007. That is, Betfair would have voluntarily paid product fees and also provided access to integrity information to help NZTR, HRNZ and GRNZ maintain public confidence in New Zealand racing. Regrettably, the NZRB objected to the voluntary agreement being established which has meant the three racing codes lost the opportunity to collect voluntary Product Fees for the last 10 years and access valuable integrity tools.

And Betfair offered it anyway! NZRB... where the image is more important than the reality....

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9 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Two examples of companies contacting the NZRB wanting to basically give them money and the NZRB responding by saying... na, it's ok. we're doing fine. You getting this Winston??

To say nothing of the access to integrity data bit. With the current race fixing scandal developments, you'd imagine that would be more than handy!

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2 minutes ago, Leggy said:

To say nothing of the access to integrity data bit. With the current race fixing scandal developments, you'd imagine that would be more than handy!

Absolutely Leggy my bad. Probably the most important  thing Betfair could offer. Another GREAT CALL by the NZRB turning that one down! 

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Peter Early interviewed Des Fredricks yesterday was good to hear someone well informed and sharing his views yesterday   

1 He said it’s abit rich blaming the smaller clubs for racing’s woes and  the attempt of closing clubs is an act or stealing .

2 Why does the report compare NZ racing to the TOP performing state in AU very misleading.

3 NZTR have wanted these closures all along and it’s abit nieve to think this is a fully independent report.

4 Winston Peters could stop the levy the government take and return to the industry at the stroke of a pen.

5  The consultation process has been awful they basically turned up,at Stratford and Hawera for 20 mins and said we are closing them down.

6 If they close these two tracks realistically the people involved will shut up shop and the 90 horses and experience ect will be lost and he’d expect it would be nationwide so would effect the horse numbers racing drastically.

7 He can see a lot of money being wasted on lawyers etc which is money that’s not going to be spent on racing

8 Last even Peter Early said is stealing or robbery and finished by saying maybe you should be on a panel  Des ? Des response they won’t want me after hearing my views.

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10 hours ago, Leggy said:

For heaven's sake can't you read? Firstly, that's $650m over 20 years on NSW racing, about 32m a year on product that people want to bet on, not the crap product we are producing that less and less people want to bet on. If you do what I suggest and read the DIA RIS then you'll see that they estimate something like $5.1m from the information use charge  with 100% compliance across all 3 codes, $6.2m including sports, about $2-3m a year for TR as I already said. They also estimate that the PoC charge may cost more to operate than it generates. There is also the argument that the PoC should go to the taxpayer, not the racing industry anyway. You are dreaming.

The figures bandied about by John Allen and the RB I'm afraid are fake news. If they had any sound basis they surely would have provided that to stakeholders. They simply don't hold water from any robust analysis. You've been sucked in by hype if you believe that.

$650million over 20 years  , that's pretty good I would have thought but you present it in a misleading way why ?, if that's the average then it was probably around $50 million last year .   Australia has been successfully operating this over a 20 year period ,  proof it works . You quote a info usage charge but that just a part of what's been recommended , again a little misleading.

ex report , ''The proposed New Zealand legislation will , of course, cover both areas (Information Use and Consumption Charges) and will therefore capture a much needed source of revenue for New Zealand racing and sport.''

The truth is until this is implemented we won't know the exact amount this will generate but the RB was confident enough to advance the industry increased prize money based on this proven international strategy , the delay caused by doubters and Winston (operating on big players wish list)  have cost the industry at least $12million , probably $15million to date (estimate is a million a month).

Again I ask , would we be facing track closures and confiscations if Racefields Legislation had been implemented on time , I doubt it .
 

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27 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:

$650million over 20 years  , that's pretty good I would have thought but you present it in a misleading way why ?, if that's the average then it was probably around $50 million last year .   Australia has been successfully operating this over a 20 year period ,  proof it works . You quote a info usage charge but that just a part of what's been recommended , again a little misleading.

ex report , ''The proposed New Zealand legislation will , of course, cover both areas (Information Use and Consumption Charges) and will therefore capture a much needed source of revenue for New Zealand racing and sport.''

The truth is until this is implemented we won't know the exact amount this will generate but the RB was confident enough to advance the industry increased prize money based on this proven international strategy , the delay caused by doubters and Winston (operating on big players wish list)  have cost the industry at least $12million , probably $15million to date (estimate is a million a month).

Again I ask , would we be facing track closures and confiscations if Racefields Legislation had been implemented on time , I doubt it .
 

WHat are you talking about? You have two examples of companies that wanted to pay the industry over the last ten years and the NZRB wasn't interested. Where are these firms then who will pay what one million a month (!!!!) to offer NEW ZEALAND RACING??!! Are you serious?

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1 hour ago, Phantom said:

WHat are you talking about? You have two examples of companies that wanted to pay the industry over the last ten years and the NZRB wasn't interested. Where are these firms then who will pay what one million a month (!!!!) to offer NEW ZEALAND RACING??!! Are you serious?

Great that they made the offer , it proves it can be done and works , the reason these self serving offers were rejected in 2007 was because the at that time we were completing negotiations with our preferred business partner TABCORP . From the 2007 report ,  '' One of the year’s highlights was the conclusion of our negotiations with Australia’s Tabcorp. In May, the New Zealand Racing Board signed an historic agreement with Tabcorp that has propelled the Board’s internationalisation strategy into action. 
The agreement covers:
- the commingling of the Australian SuperTAB and the New Zealand totalisator pools
- the expansion of the New Zealand and the Australian wagering schedules 
- an International Marketing Agreement with Tabcorp-owned Sky Channel Australia. 

So betfair was just trying get a toe in the door and undermine Tabcorps position , accepting outside offers at the time would have undermined our international strategy .

The million a month , that's the extra amount of money the racing board is contributing to stakes from their reserves or borrowing , it was meant to be a short term prop up and this was to be reimbursed to their coffers when racefields was in introduced , winston delayed the legislation so for every month that goes by the racing board goes backwards by around a million .

The situation today is Messara and the Racing Board are confident racefield legislation will works , it's proven around the world .

Again I ask , would we be facing track closures and confiscations if Racefields Legislation had been implemented on time , I doubt it .

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3 hours ago, Phantom said:

WHat are you talking about? You have two examples of companies that wanted to pay the industry over the last ten years and the NZRB wasn't interested. Where are these firms then who will pay what one million a month (!!!!) to offer NEW ZEALAND RACING??!! Are you serious?

I think he needs to change his meds Phantom.The relationship and negotiations with TABCORP have nothing to do with arranging and accepting racefield's payments from corporate bookies and if you think there is anything like $1m a month in it, especially after administration costs, you are going to be very disappointed going by any sound estimates.

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

I think he needs to change his meds Phantom.The relationship and negotiations with TABCORP have nothing to do with arranging and accepting racefield's payments from corporate bookies and if you think there is anything like $1m a month in it, especially after administration costs, you are going to be very disappointed going by any sound estimates.

All I can do is point out what's happened .

April 2017 ,   

The next two years are guaranteed at $12million extra per year though and not only is that number sustainable, it is a just a starting point. Allen told the Herald.

Some of the extra money will come from the ''''expected passing'''' of race fields legislation That legislation is expected to become law before the general election..

There you have it , they spent it before they had it and still don't have it , that's 16 months ago , 12 months = $12million .

Those who undermined the passing of racefields have a lot to answer for .

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I don't post very often, but I guess this is too important to ignore.

I've bred and raced horses most of my adult life. In my seventies I still keep an active interest, although I no longer have land to raise my own horses. My latest 3yo might even pay her way. None of the 20+ horses I've bred and raced have so far.

First, closing racetracks. Yes, we have too many, but closing some of the 'iconic' country tracks doesn't seem sensible, if they can survive with community support.

We loved racing a horse at Kurow, for their once a year meeting, where the whole town played a part in a making it a great success. Horse won there the year before, came last this time, but we still loved the day. Woodville has always epitomised the country track where visitors are welcome, and it's always fun to participate. Can these tracks be sold and the proceeds go to support racing? Well, maybe, but if they're going to line the coffers of NZTR who will fritter it away, the answer must be a resounding NO! I do not trust our racing administrators.

Some city tracks could definitely be sold for much-needed housing development, but I wonder how much money would be generated for the benefit of racing?

Racing administration. Poor, and in need of thorough revision. Turkeys will never vote for Christmas, but we have more than our share of these birds as administrators, who no longer have a place in modern racing. I wouldn't advocate eating them at Christmas, but putting them out of their misery would be a good idea.

I'd hate to see training centralised around a few 'big' training centres. Closing tracks all over the place might close down a lot of marginal trainers upon whom racing will always depend. Have the NZRB achieved anything?  By now John Allen must at least have a superficial knowledge, but at what cost? No more of these overpaid renegades from the Post Office, please.

TAB. Would it be a disaster if it were sold to a foreign operator, as long as they were bound to run it for the benefit of we people who enjoy racing? Trackside should revert to free to air.  Our TV presenters should at least be able to emulate their Australian counterparts. Right now they're pretty cringeworthy.

Breeder's contribution. As a breeder who has sold the odd one abroad, I wouldn't object to a (say) 10% levy on all horses sold abroad, whether they're from the yearling, RTR, broodmare or private sales. If that money were to go to stakes, that would help increase stake moneys. Time the breeders played their part.

All weather tracks? Hmmm.. well I detest Awapuni, but then not as much as Trentham. I think Trentham is well past its use-by date. Sell it for real estate development, use the money for a decent (maybe all-weather track within fast commute from Wellington)  We need better tracks where horses can race fairly. Better tracks, better track management and a realisation that racing is part of the entertainment business is a must. If we can't encourage younger people to participate and enjoy racing as owners & punters, then the outlook is pretty bleak.

Racing has been poorly managed from the top down. A new broom needs to sweep out the dreadful administration and make it a pleasant experience to watch horses racing.

Winston, love him or hate him has delivered us an ultimatum of sorts. Rather than whinge and pick it to pieces, we need to get in behind and broadly support the initiative, ensuring that the bad bits are neutralised, and the broad thrust is supported.

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