Mattski

Messara Racing Review Full Report and 17 Key points

417 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Huey said:

I'm told not to worry as the racing game will replace me with the 18-40yo syndicate crowd and it will be the better for it.

 in the greater scheme of things I don't matter and the racing industry won't be impacted by losing me, but I wonder if there are 50 to 100 or 200 persons across the country out there just like me who feel the same way if that's the case I don't think racing will recover without its hardcore. 

 

 

2 hours ago, puha said:

My sentiments as well Huey. You feel totally shafted and the players that could benefit directly from our demise don’t give a rats arse.

I’m waiting for all the small clubs to have their meetings, I’d expect a huge backlash forthcoming .

It’s so disbelieving to think in NZ a plan to seize land and assets could even be thought about never mind acted upon.When is the Trainers Association going to stick up for ALL their members? 

Shit you guys have got stickability, your game, loyal, stayers... I gave up hope 5 or 6 years ago and just go to the races for a punt now-days.

As I said earlier, what next when all the silverware is sold off, to up stakes, and rural participants have hopped across the Tasman ?

Hope they have a long term plan for keeping Stakes at a sustainable level to keep all grades racing horses (like yourselves ) in the game.

The big breeders and overpaid free drinking admin.should be brought into line and hit in the pocket with the Grass root grafters,( to get us out of the shit.)

That 18-40 y-o syndicate stuff hasn,t eventuated yet Huey...more like 50-80 y-o,s (at Hastings on Saturday anyway LOL) ...Fortuna syn.etc

I voted Winston for change and with the likes of Ohokaman,Berri and Red Rum,s financial nous , the industry could possibly be saved without unwanted track closures. 

  

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21 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Tom tries hard !!!!.......you’re kidding, he’s a fucking bludger who tries to run second.

Who'd go to war with him ?, how’d you feel if he was in the trenches with you, he’s a flea with a heart the size of a caraway seed.

Yes - but A $1m flea at that! Id like to have a flea like him! 

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With Tabcorp and SkyRacing merging, I can’t understand all the “anti”. NZ, Korea, USA and everywhere else are broadcast on the 3 Sky Racing channels in Oz. Betting is avail on all of them. How would NZ Racing suffer? The focus should be on those that have effectively run NZ Racing (into the ground) for the last 20 years. That’s the starting point. Get rid of the lot and start again. Racing people with the right knowledge and skills to take everyone along with them. The Breeders should be left out. Their market is overseas - Aust and HK/Singapore and then Korea and China. NZ racing doesn’t interest them really. They wouldn’t survive just selling to a local market. If Winston listens to the wrong people on how and where to go with this, then nothing will change.

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15 minutes ago, Trump said:

Yes - but A $1m flea at that! Id like to have a flea like him! 

Too right Trumpy ! Hasn't won since 2016, but placed 3 times at Group 1, twice at Group 2, 4 times at Group 3 and once at Listed level since earning a bit over A$700,000.....I doubt they are complaining.....;)

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On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:21 AM, Red Rum said:

Gambling stables, iam sure a few on here have heard of Barney Curley. The gambler of all gamblers turned trainer , mix the two , it's was gambling stable !!! I was on  course at Market Rasen in late 80s , had trip up from big smoke on day off. Low grade big field selling hurdle , he had horse UrbI Et Orbi , I remember name as Curley was good Catholic man its named after  Pope's easter service I think. Urbi had been off track unseen  by public for over 5 years , and he weren't much good then. He wasn't so much a forgotten horse but a never remembered one. Curley hadn't forgotten it. 20 odd runners , its value disappeared in a blick of an eye as the bookies got bowled over as soon as they priced it up. Urbi bolts in , favorite , job done,  and Curley shells out some of his winnings to buy old Urbi back after race.Not a one off either, he scared bookies shitless,  and was and still is a character. 

 

Maybe gambling stables is one of our biggest problems with not attracting Businessman owners or driving them out of the game ? My wife has been syndicating 1 of our horses lately and has come across several business people that have invested in  a few horses in the past and flatly refuse to invest another cent in the game , You invest a large amount in a horse pay all the substantial costs involved and these Trainers who you trust with your investment  pass all your information onto their punting mates free of charge!  In a real business that would b a breach of the Privacy Act surely?

Edited by L.J.Shannon
spelling mistake 5th word on>one

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5 minutes ago, Trump said:

With Tabcorp and SkyRacing merging, I can’t understand all the “anti”. NZ, Korea, USA and everywhere else are broadcast on the 3 Sky Racing channels in Oz. Betting is avail on all of them. How would NZ Racing suffer? The focus should be on those that have effectively run NZ Racing (into the ground) for the last 20 years. That’s the starting point. Get rid of the lot and start again. Racing people with the right knowledge and skills to take everyone along with them. The Breeders should be left out. Their market is overseas - Aust and HK/Singapore and then Korea and China. NZ racing doesn’t interest them really. They wouldn’t survive just selling to a local market. If Winston listens to the wrong people on how and where to go with this, then nothing will change.

And from this report, Jackson and his cronies, and the Breeders, have had quite a say. It basically rubberstamps what NZTR have wanted.

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2 cents worth...

Think the document an  'offer' on the table. Its sly agenda to pave a contractual way for the government to gain the FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT to sell off courses.The CONSENT or giving AUTHORITY to do so as AGREEMENT by consensus - so don't come with regret if you think different.

NZ racing long time in demise, weakened by NZTR macro to the micro. Gets to the sad case where most are saving their own skin and or, are happy with their lot.

Practices/ processes around the industry, not the case of best horse wins, but smartest horse or should I say those in the clever KNOW but unbeknown to  'us' who are horribly blissed by such ignorance and kept that way in this game, until lessons or questions teach us otherwise.

Whilst greater ownership stake monies for compensating owner investment is supposedly The Way to SaveUs All,  I think $$$$ still won't genuinely fix the basics. Its our IP image to the world going strongly amiss.  

Yes the millennial generation are savvy, innovative and passionate but so where 'we' when younger, its a changing reality we're in. I suppose this why Messara suggests accountability, professional qualification upgrading the 'image' or credibility of NZ racing.

There is so many individual entities, re: clubs, board, Jockey, Training, Breeders Association(s) who want membership & money for survival but don't show interest in entrepreneurship. Yeah, I'm gray-haired to but them grey hairs are  'fixed' and 'oh, we can't do THAT' mentality (because of $ & authority) stages doom n' gloom (still).

We loved our ol' Racing days, the heritage and the horses which showed 'em all i.e. Balmerino . This a BRAND making which we've slipped up on and we are NOT slick at it at all. (think social media attention around Winx, products, passionate people, media interests etc). Anyone ever thought of Chris Waller and Winx doing a home-town public tour show when/if she retires (as idea)? Mark Todd & Charisma did & the kids loved it). Can we use James MacDonald as a mentor to youth, Micheal Walker..... will why not for god's sake.

We have to hone down our own breeding 'rights' to on a collective scale.  Bloodlines that can't be brought back....(my eyes water at this)

When it comes down to it ...there is NO LEADERSHIP which sees the big wide picture to a greater stage, and that is what is really  the most frustrating of it all.

We need to 'specialize' something 'ours' acutely fast and smart and take it to the world.

 Awkwardly, I suppose we will be having to accept the model given and its changing-of-the-guard.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Berri said:

I wrote this some time ago for someone that wanted to understand the concept of out sourcing. May need further explanation as I wrote it in haste

Out sourcing -The Future.docx

I agree even though the Governments will fight it tooth and nail there is nothing they can do and it is only a matter of time before 90% of all gambling will be done via decentralized technologies. NZRB should join the tech revolution or miss out altogether. 

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

And from this report, Jackson and his cronies, and the Breeders, have had quite a say. It basically rubberstamps what NZTR have wanted.

Thats why it takes no account of others especially harness at dual code venues.

No depth to it.

Are we now going to get a report (s) on the harness greyhound codes.

Also sports betting not mentioned.

The Thoroughbred Racing could outsource its own product  and the rest can go jump.

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2 hours ago, L.J.Shannon said:

Maybe gambling stables is one of our biggest problems with not attracting Businessman owners or driving them out of the game ? My wife has been syndicating 1 of our horses lately and has come across several business people that have invested in  a few horses in the past and flatly refuse to invest another cent in the game , You invest a large amount in a horse pay all the substantial costs involved and these Trainers who you trust with your investment  pass all your information onto their punting mates free of charge!  In a real business that would b a breach of the Privacy Act surely?

LJ, nope two different things , real gambling stable does not pass anything on , absolutely nothing, it's like the secret service plus some. Good stable has trusted hands , it's old school.Build a horse up for a big coup.   Other types i agree yes,  if I found out iam paying for horse and it's info is divulged to all and sundry , I would be displeased. Also little illegal in   some places , jockeys  putting in  calls to mates a big no no. Few up in  UK have had visits from  authorities. 

Barney Curley owned all his own horses in his stables , he won and lost his own money. Punters just followed the money in the ring.

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2 hours ago, L.J.Shannon said:

Maybe gambling stables is one of our biggest problems with not attracting Businessman owners or driving them out of the game ? My wife has been syndicating 1 of our horses lately and has come across several business people that have invested in  a few horses in the past and flatly refuse to invest another cent in the game , You invest a large amount in a horse pay all the substantial costs involved and these Trainers who you trust with your investment  pass all your information onto their punting mates free of charge!  In a real business that would b a breach of the Privacy Act surely?

I've read some absolute rubbish in my time but this takes the cake, you don't have a gambling culture, unlike, Britain, Ireland, Australia and USA....just to name a few, hence you are up the creek, racing was established on the Newmarket Heath by King James, starting out as sweepstakes so he could usurp his fellow racing aficionados, therefore creating the industry and sport we know today.....I'm sorry Woodville's going, it;'s a great track and champions came from there to Australia like Darryl's Joy, Classic Mission, Triton, and many many more, but to say gambling is a demon and that's what you're saying is laughable......since God's dog chased a stick trainers will covert or divulge information, so too stable boys and jockeys, you obviously have felt hard done by Mr Shannon, but my Dad was a bookmaker and we trained for one of the biggest rails bookies in Victoria, they're your opinions and you are entitled to them, as I am in defending the gambling arm of our industry, and after all, getting up at 3-30am has to have some rewards financially......we kept our info close to our chests, but sometimes the trackman or the boy/s girl's would let the cat out of the bag......don't throw all trainers under the bus Mr Shannon.

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How much does NZTR and the R.B. give to the upkeep of tracks and their  super structures?

 

i can't recall ever reading anywhere.. an actual amount., this is very important..i need a 'trainspotter' like Leggy  to hunt this out for me/us please . . .Cheers Champ :)

 

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45 minutes ago, La Zip said:

I've read some absolute rubbish in my time but this takes the cake, you don't have a gambling culture, unlike, Britain, Ireland, Australia and USA....just to name a few, hence you are up the creek, racing was established on the Newmarket Heath by King James, starting out as sweepstakes so he could usurp his fellow racing aficionados, therefore creating the industry and sport we know today.....I'm sorry Woodville's going, it;'s a great track and champions came from there to Australia like Darryl's Joy, Classic Mission, Triton, and many many more, but to say gambling is a demon and that's what you're saying is laughable......since God's dog chased a stick trainers will covert or divulge information, so too stable boys and jockeys, you obviously have felt hard done by Mr Shannon, but my Dad was a bookmaker and we trained for one of the biggest rails bookies in Victoria, they're your opinions and you are entitled to them, as I am in defending the gambling arm of our industry, and after all, getting up at 3-30am has to have some rewards financially......we kept our info close to our chests, but sometimes the trackman or the boy/s girl's would let the cat out of the bag......don't throw all trainers under the bus Mr Shannon.

Ive seen mention about getting boards  bookies here . Not sure it could happen , you need a number to make a market fun and raft of regulation.  Shopping along the lines., fighting through crowds  on a big day. Watching the 'faces'  and who they backing. Id  go with my Dad and good mate from football days at school regularly years back , if we backed  same one it was a source of pride if you got a 7/2 rather than 100/30,  a little difference but I know the jungle better than me mate.. It's a battle bookie v punter , to the punter it's individual them v me , to the bookie he plays out that individual battle many times over each race with all the individual punters. It's a jungle , it's bloody good fun. I know better than that bookie, he's overpriced that one , that's value , he's mine. Hahaha bookie normally has last laugh , it's real good , could we get it here, I doubt it now but it would be awesome , it's a family business ,handed down  hard to retrieve.

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Why on earth Peters got sucked in by an Aussie bean counter is beyond me.Closure of courses has been on the agenda for at least 30 years. Kumara was a prime case. Was meant to close but committee cunningly invited Muldoon down for  Nuggets day and lo and behold closure cancelled. Now the Arab proposes it again and suggests that the courses meekly hand over their property on some idiotic basis which would need an amendment to the Public Works Act given the likely resistance, to designate, offer, negotiate, reach agreement or have litigation to conclude matters. I think I would need to take out my practising certificate again because it will be a lawyers gold mine.

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1 hour ago, hedley said:

How much does NZTR and the R.B. give to the upkeep of tracks and their  super structures?

 

i can't recall ever reading anywhere.. an actual amount., this is very important..i need a 'trainspotter' like Leggy  to hunt this out for me/us please . . .Cheers Champ :)

 

Starts with f and ends with 'all' Hedley.

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5 minutes ago, ridiculous said:

Good article .Why should we trust these suits that have continually stuffed up. We all have to remember they aren’t making land anymore and once it’s gone it’s gone forever. There’s no way small communities are going to roll over without a fight .This is NZ not Zimbabwe.

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Just now, puha said:

Good article .Why should we trust these suits that have continually stuffed up. We all have to remember they aren’t making land anymore and once it’s gone it’s gone forever. There’s no way small communities are going to roll over without a fight .This is NZ not Zimbabwe.

It's starting to look more like Zimbabwe though, unbelievable really. Shame on those that proposed this. I actually thought better of them.

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6 minutes ago, Leggy said:

It's starting to look more like Zimbabwe though, unbelievable really. Shame on those that proposed this. I actually thought better of them.

Some serious talk coming out of the South Leggy, and once everyone appreciates the ramifications of this, more will follow.

https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/racing/racing-clubs-vow-fight

This whole thing will take years to resolve, there will be protracted legal battles, and we might have a new Government by then, so odds on this going through must be lengthening by the day.

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2 minutes ago, ridiculous said:

What is it you are in fact fighting for?  Is it the memories of a bygone era, when racing was the only form of entertainment and/or gambling in this country.  It is clear from the discussion on this thread that many clubs and participants are happy to take the industry to the edge of collapse and possibly beyond to save these memories from the 60's and 70's.  These clubs want their last actions on this earth to be the total annihilation of the the racing industry in NZ, so they can keep a track open that is a shadow of its former glory and in may cases in total disrepair.  What happens in 10-20 years when the 30 or so members of each of these clubs making this last stand are dead and buried and the industry is also gone.  Will people remember them as visionaries, forward thinkers who loved our great game.   .....or will they be remembered as sad remnants of a bygone era that put the final nail in the coffin at the last opportunity they had to save the industry.  It is sad to see the self interest that is driving the thinking of many who cant bear to let go of the last remnants of control or power they have.  You should be ashamed

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21 minutes ago, Gofta said:

What is it you are in fact fighting for?  Is it the memories of a bygone era, when racing was the only form of entertainment and/or gambling in this country.  It is clear from the discussion on this thread that many clubs and participants are happy to take the industry to the edge of collapse and possibly beyond to save these memories from the 60's and 70's.  These clubs want their last actions on this earth to be the total annihilation of the the racing industry in NZ, so they can keep a track open that is a shadow of its former glory and in may cases in total disrepair.  What happens in 10-20 years when the 30 or so members of each of these clubs making this last stand are dead and buried and the industry is also gone.  Will people remember them as visionaries, forward thinkers who loved our great game.   .....or will they be remembered as sad remnants of a bygone era that put the final nail in the coffin at the last opportunity they had to save the industry.  It is sad to see the self interest that is driving the thinking of many who cant bear to let go of the last remnants of control or power they have.  You should be ashamed

The self interest is coming from the land grabbers.By all means let’s upgrade tracks but shame on anyone that think they can take what’s not theirs . You don’t get it these clubs are profitable and many are used over the summer holidays.These tracks aren’t in need of state of the art facilities the clients are in summer mode where sun umbrellas chillybins etc are what’s in demand .The only crime is they have something worth stealing .

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24 minutes ago, Gofta said:

What is it you are in fact fighting for?  Is it the memories of a bygone era, when racing was the only form of entertainment and/or gambling in this country.  It is clear from the discussion on this thread that many clubs and participants are happy to take the industry to the edge of collapse and possibly beyond to save these memories from the 60's and 70's.  These clubs want their last actions on this earth to be the total annihilation of the the racing industry in NZ, so they can keep a track open that is a shadow of its former glory and in may cases in total disrepair.  What happens in 10-20 years when the 30 or so members of each of these clubs making this last stand are dead and buried and the industry is also gone.  Will people remember them as visionaries, forward thinkers who loved our great game.   .....or will they be remembered as sad remnants of a bygone era that put the final nail in the coffin at the last opportunity they had to save the industry.  It is sad to see the self interest that is driving the thinking of many who cant bear to let go of the last remnants of control or power they have.  You should be ashamed

Don't think they are too worried about keeping their tracks open Gofta. They've done that to support the larger clubs for years. Doubt they'll stand for having their community's assets grabbed though.

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33 minutes ago, Gofta said:

What is it you are in fact fighting for?  Is it the memories of a bygone era, when racing was the only form of entertainment and/or gambling in this country.  It is clear from the discussion on this thread that many clubs and participants are happy to take the industry to the edge of collapse and possibly beyond to save these memories from the 60's and 70's.  These clubs want their last actions on this earth to be the total annihilation of the the racing industry in NZ, so they can keep a track open that is a shadow of its former glory and in may cases in total disrepair.  What happens in 10-20 years when the 30 or so members of each of these clubs making this last stand are dead and buried and the industry is also gone.  Will people remember them as visionaries, forward thinkers who loved our great game.   .....or will they be remembered as sad remnants of a bygone era that put the final nail in the coffin at the last opportunity they had to save the industry.  It is sad to see the self interest that is driving the thinking of many who cant bear to let go of the last remnants of control or power they have.  You should be ashamed

What do you mean let go? Many of these venues are still training facilities , still providing product for the industry , still loved and cherished by their community. So you want them all to roll over to save the rest of the industry which has had the best of everything for years and is going to suck the sav. yet again before they are in trouble again? 

They are looking in the wrong place to start with ,the most dysfunctional part of the industry is those clubs who have been given considerable favour over the years , have full time to staff , several race dates, financial support and they still haven't been able to make it work so why on earth would these clubs mooted to close have faith in such a plan?

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The problem is each piece of land will have different terms. For example a landowner in 1880 might have gifted a portion of land with the proviso that the land is used for the enjoyment of that community , young and old. Or for the purpose of sport and recreation again young and old.Only the title will show , case by case.It just so happens the community have worked to use that land to race horses once or twice a year. Now I agree some tracks are on maybe a downward curve , or may want to amalgamate.  Now two clubs might want to amalgamate , sell portion of land and use money to put in lovely all weather footy pitches for all codes to help the community and use rest to  improve the  other track.  If the title allows that why not. Maybe Omoto say ok youve closed us but we are putting in an equestrian centre for the community to use instead. If they are forced closed by no licence , maybe they would like their kids, grandkids, and their kids into the future  use the land as they see fit , as they have had use of it during their lives. Be pretty tough for them watching  the Millions in 2020 at Ellerslie , watching the champagne quoffed having had the land taken watching kids play on mud fields when the money used to prop up the high end could have been used on sports fields.  

I'd love regular racing on All Weather at Riccarton for sure ,  I'd head out  regularly  but does seem odd the second biggest city in NZ receives  rural development fund money for the course and the rural community are fighting land confiscation from the governing body of the all weather track. It is a bit twilight zone isn't it ? 

 

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2 hours ago, La Zip said:

I've read some absolute rubbish in my time but this takes the cake, you don't have a gambling culture, unlike, Britain, Ireland, Australia and USA....just to name a few, hence you are up the creek, racing was established on the Newmarket Heath by King James, starting out as sweepstakes so he could usurp his fellow racing aficionados, therefore creating the industry and sport we know today.....I'm sorry Woodville's going, it;'s a great track and champions came from there to Australia like Darryl's Joy, Classic Mission, Triton, and many many more, but to say gambling is a demon and that's what you're saying is laughable......since God's dog chased a stick trainers will covert or divulge information, so too stable boys and jockeys, you obviously have felt hard done by Mr Shannon, but my Dad was a bookmaker and we trained for one of the biggest rails bookies in Victoria, they're your opinions and you are entitled to them, as I am in defending the gambling arm of our industry, and after all, getting up at 3-30am has to have some rewards financially......we kept our info close to our chests, but sometimes the trackman or the boy/s girl's would let the cat out of the bag......don't throw all trainers under the bus Mr Shannon.

Hang on La Zip these are ex owners/investors good business people in their own industry that have given reasons why they would not waste there time with this industry and bingo this was one of the main ones so you are telling me by your statement that the owners privacy is solely at the discretion  of Horse Trainers ( I'm picking you have a Horse Trainers license) ,   Where did I say Gambling is a DEMON?, I think when looking for someone  talking rubbish and laughable maybe go into bathroom and look in the mirror ?  . "since God's dog chased a stick trainers will covert or divulge information" He who invested owns and has paid all costs  for everything obviously in your opinion has no rights. and you tell me that this is not a reason owners  may have left the industry in the droves ? Your right Woodville is a very good track probably in my opinion because it is of a good soil type , has a outstanding grass root system and has No Irrigation. 

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