Mattski

Messara Racing Review Full Report and 17 Key points

417 posts in this topic

Trials Pam, not racing, there isn't enough horses to go around, trial Mon and Tue and race every day after, I'm not going to argue about racing early in the week, you are closer to it than I, but trials are a must, and then 4 day a week racing, at least one meeting somewhere, with 4 mil plus population there should be enough interest to generate a plus situation, if not why not? running an international travel marketing company for 22 plus years I learnt early to invest in marketing my business, without marketing and selling yourself you don't have a business, or at best a very small one......someone like John Singleton or Richard Branson would shake the s - - t out of NZTR/NZRB.......it's not really hard, it just takes a will.....a living will Pam, not a bloody death will.

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3 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

I think a huge part of it is a lack of population. Monday and Tuesday in UK normally poor stuff but due to population it's no issue running 3k sellers , claimers,low grade handicaps  from  the gaffs . Betting shops have decent amount of the huge numbers of the  great unwashed in the cities keeping warm or cool depending on season drinking free coffee and punting up their dole cheque  and lunchtime the workers  zip down to William Hill or Ladbrokes still popular.Now with floodlight racing the workers get home and fire up the online account year around. I used to enjoy going racing on a Monday at the gaffs as a shift worker, was decent amount people on course, betting ring still seemed  busy most days  and always seemed a bit of a shift worker bonus .

As for trials I've come from background punting of no trials form at all.The closest I feel safe to a horse is the outside of the paddock rail so prepping a horse for race not my strong point  however they do seem to trial a lot here which I cannot understand. Gosden, Stoute , Cecil , etc , never read of them calling for trials meetings. End of the day  a race like the  Wood Ditton you know all first time out and once chance gone horse going to get a tender ride , it's how it is .Follow the money in those races. Not saying no trials just seems a lot that's all.Mind you I was looking at that Frankel - More Joyous filly called Women's form for Waterhouse Stable out of interest as her half brother ran I  first Randwick , one win one run and more trials than Columbo , I cannot work it out. 

 

We are on the same stage RR, my husband trained for a rails bookmaker at Flemington, we never trialled a horse, even our 2yo's were jumped out up the straight for a barrier cert. We pulled off some amazing plunges without the need to trial our horses, we believe it's the trading arm of racing that's driven the trial obsession in NZ.....if you are a punting stable, the last thing you need or want is to show up your horses, and it's hard to hide a hard going animal, it teaches them nothing but bad manners.....the gambling culture in NZ is not what you and I are used to RR, and basically it shows the lesser skills of the newer brigade of trainer who can't get their horses ready on the training tracks and that applies here in Oz as well RR.

Trialling horses just provides revenue for NZTR for doing nothing......I understand many will say the need to trial is weather driven, I understand that to an extent but its an obsession in NZ.....they need to see their horse perform in a race day environment, and yet come Raceday so many horses get up at huge odds.....that doesn't happen here.

A trial freak here in Oz is Waller, so much so that he needed to trial that wonderful mare Catkins [his words] after she flopped badly in a race, she trialled only a few days later with Chris saying I needed her to tell me if she had had enough racing.........and again he trials Single Gaze, she trialled poorly and yet he runs her on Sat to see her run so badly it hurt......I shake my head RR....where did good old horsemanship go? Having said that, Gai W is also a trial freak, she just loves to win trials, the difference being, her horses like her Dad's always run on the pace, they are trained to do that, there is method to Gai's madness.....her track record says that.

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4 minutes ago, La Zip said:

We are on the same stage RR, my husband trained for a rails bookmaker at Flemington, we never trialled a horse, even our 2yo's were jumped out up the straight for a barrier cert. We pulled off some amazing plunges without the need to trial our horses, we believe it's the trading arm of racing that's driven the trial obsession in NZ.....if you are a punting stable, the last thing you need or want is to show up your horses, and it's hard to hide a hard going animal, it teaches them nothing but bad manners.....the gambling culture in NZ is not what you and I are used to RR, and basically it shows the lesser skills of the newer brigade of trainer who can't get their horses ready on the training tracks and that applies here in Oz as well RR.

Trialling horses just provides revenue for NZTR for doing nothing......I understand many will say the need to trial is weather driven, I understand that to an extent but its an obsession in NZ.....they need to see their horse perform in a race day environment, and yet come Raceday so many horses get up at huge odds.....that doesn't happen here.

A trial freak here in Oz is Waller, so much so that he needed to trial that wonderful mare Catkins [his words] after she flopped badly in a race, she trialled only a few days later with Chris saying I needed her to tell me if she had had enough racing.........and again he trials Single Gaze, she trialled poorly and yet he runs her on Sat to see her run so badly it hurt......I shake my head RR....where did good old horsemanship go? Having said that, Gai W is also a trial freak, she just loves to win trials, the difference being, her horses like her Dad's always run on the pace, they are trained to do that, there is method to Gai's madness.....her track record says that.

Gambling stables, iam sure a few on here have heard of Barney Curley. The gambler of all gamblers turned trainer , mix the two , it's was gambling stable !!! I was on  course at Market Rasen in late 80s , had trip up from big smoke on day off. Low grade big field selling hurdle , he had horse UrbI Et Orbi , I remember name as Curley was good Catholic man its named after  Pope's easter service I think. Urbi had been off track unseen  by public for over 5 years , and he weren't much good then. He wasn't so much a forgotten horse but a never remembered one. Curley hadn't forgotten it. 20 odd runners , its value disappeared in a blick of an eye as the bookies got bowled over as soon as they priced it up. Urbi bolts in , favorite , job done,  and Curley shells out some of his winnings to buy old Urbi back after race.Not a one off either, he scared bookies shitless,  and was and still is a character. 

 

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25 minutes ago, La Zip said:

 

Trialling horses just provides revenue for NZTR for doing nothing......I understand many will say the need to trial is weather driven, I understand that to an extent but its an obsession in NZ.....they need to see their horse perform in a race day environment, and yet come Raceday so many horses get up at huge odds.....that doesn't happen here.

 

Absolutely right, and from an owner's viewpoint a financial disaster with the cost of entering, transport, rider fees etc. The horses are available as evidenced by 25-30 trials usually held with 6-7 in each.

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2 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

Absolutely right, and from an owner's viewpoint a financial disaster with the cost of entering, transport, rider fees etc. The horses are available as evidenced by 25-30 trials usually held with 6-7 in each.

Chevy totally agree , 3k a month,  if trainer says  horse is healthy and fit  I would want it running for cash. I would want some form of explanation at least after say two trials .As I said iam scared of the big buggers so wouldn't tell them their job but just a why that's all.

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1 hour ago, La Zip said:

We are on the same stage RR, my husband trained for a rails bookmaker at Flemington, we never trialled a horse, even our 2yo's were jumped out up the straight for a barrier cert. We pulled off some amazing plunges without the need to trial our horses, we believe it's the trading arm of racing that's driven the trial obsession in NZ.....if you are a punting stable, the last thing you need or want is to show up your horses, and it's hard to hide a hard going animal, it teaches them nothing but bad manners.....the gambling culture in NZ is not what you and I are used to RR, and basically it shows the lesser skills of the newer brigade of trainer who can't get their horses ready on the training tracks and that applies here in Oz as well RR.

Trialling horses just provides revenue for NZTR for doing nothing......I understand many will say the need to trial is weather driven, I understand that to an extent but its an obsession in NZ.....they need to see their horse perform in a race day environment, and yet come Raceday so many horses get up at huge odds.....that doesn't happen here.

A trial freak here in Oz is Waller, so much so that he needed to trial that wonderful mare Catkins [his words] after she flopped badly in a race, she trialled only a few days later with Chris saying I needed her to tell me if she had had enough racing.........and again he trials Single Gaze, she trialled poorly and yet he runs her on Sat to see her run so badly it hurt......I shake my head RR....where did good old horsemanship go? Having said that, Gai W is also a trial freak, she just loves to win trials, the difference being, her horses like her Dad's always run on the pace, they are trained to do that, there is method to Gai's madness.....her track record says that.

Single Gaze was 2/5  lame.

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1 hour ago, Red Rum said:

I think a huge part of it is a lack of population. Monday and Tuesday in UK normally poor stuff but due to population it's no issue running 3k sellers , claimers,low grade handicaps  from  the gaffs . Betting shops have decent amount of the huge numbers of the  great unwashed in the cities keeping warm or cool depending on season drinking free coffee and punting up their dole cheque  and lunchtime the workers  zip down to William Hill or Ladbrokes still popular.Now with floodlight racing the workers get home and fire up the online account year around. I used to enjoy going racing on a Monday at the gaffs as a shift worker, was decent amount people on course, betting ring still seemed  busy most days  and always seemed a bit of a shift worker bonus .

As for trials I've come from background punting of no trials form at all.The closest I feel safe to a horse is the outside of the paddock rail so prepping a horse for race not my strong point  however they do seem to trial a lot here which I cannot understand. Gosden, Stoute , Cecil , etc , never read of them calling for trials meetings. End of the day  a race like the  Wood Ditton you know all first time out and once chance gone horse going to get a tender ride , it's how it is .Follow the money in those races. Not saying no trials just seems a lot that's all.Mind you I was looking at that Frankel - More Joyous filly called Women's form for Waterhouse Stable out of interest as her half brother ran I  first Randwick , one win one run and more trials than Columbo , I cannot work it out. 

 

Some lovely runs at Randwick RR....none more so than Unforgotten and Pure Elation.

Wallers other two mares Youngstar and Egg Tart worth following. Your Mr Moonlight Magic pulled up 3/5 lame.

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4 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

Some lovely runs at Randwick RR....none more so than Unforgotten and Pure Elation.

Wallers other two mares Youngstar and Egg Tart worth following. Your Mr Moonlight Magic pulled up 3/5 lame.

Was good day OM, yeah flicked through thoroughbred central yesterday night and heard that. Hope he makes it back , he's good just was off form for bit. James Cummings got decent injection of talent from Euro arm of Godolphin as few older ones coming to end of it.Got to think Hartnell and It's Somewhat  will bow out come end Autumn at latest. Hartnell is to Winx what Hay List was to Black Caviar.  Posted a bit on another thread might interest you re Cup.

What you think of Ron Dufficy, I really like listening to his thoughts but know some others not so keen. He a must listen to person for me. Keeps it simple and like his humour. He's right over that Tom Melbourne now, he was a fan at one point.

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1 minute ago, Red Rum said:

Was good day OM, yeah flicked through thoroughbred central yesterday night and heard that. Hope he makes it back , he's good just was off form for bit. James Cummings got decent injection of talent from Euro arm of Godolphin as few older ones coming to end of it.Got to think Hartnell and It's Somewhat  will bow out come end Autumn at latest. Hartnell is to Winx what Hay List was to Black Caviar.  Posted a bit on another thread might interest you re Cup.

What you think of Ron Dufficy, I really like listening to his thoughts but know some others not so keen. He a must listen to person for me. Keeps it simple and like his humour. He's right over that Tom Melbourne now, he was a fan at one point.

I like him. Straightforward and good humoured as you say. Will Tom ever win another race ??! Horse obviously tries hard but the poor bugger just seems to find one better. Always an interesting watch that programme....they don't take themselves too seriously.

Loved Hughie Bowmans comment after his cracker ride on Unforgotten when Bernie Cooper asked him " How did you feel at the furlong..?" 

"Better than I did at the 300...."

Classic....:rcf-laughing-1:

 

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1 hour ago, Red Rum said:

Was good day OM, yeah flicked through thoroughbred central yesterday night and heard that. Hope he makes it back , he's good just was off form for bit. James Cummings got decent injection of talent from Euro arm of Godolphin as few older ones coming to end of it.Got to think Hartnell and It's Somewhat  will bow out come end Autumn at latest. Hartnell is to Winx what Hay List was to Black Caviar.  Posted a bit on another thread might interest you re Cup.

What you think of Ron Dufficy, I really like listening to his thoughts but know some others not so keen. He a must listen to person for me. Keeps it simple and like his humour. He's right over that Tom Melbourne now, he was a fan at one point.

The Duff knows his stuff.....he’s been there done that, can identify cheats, non triers, understands riding tactics etc.........they should have more like him.

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

I like him. Straightforward and good humoured as you say. Will Tom ever win another race ??! Horse obviously tries hard but the poor bugger just seems to find one better. Always an interesting watch that programme....they don't take themselves too seriously.

Loved Hughie Bowmans comment after his cracker ride on Unforgotten when Bernie Cooper asked him " How did you feel at the furlong..?" 

"Better than I did at the 300...."

Classic....:rcf-laughing-1:

 

Tom tries hard !!!!.......you’re kidding, he’s a fucking bludger who tries to run second.

Who'd go to war with him ?, how’d you feel if he was in the trenches with you, he’s a flea with a heart the size of a caraway seed.

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2 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Tom tries hard !!!!.......you’re kidding, he’s a fucking bludger who tries to run second.

Who'd go to war with him ?, how’d you feel if he was in the trenches with you, he’s a flea with a heart the size of a caraway seed.

Duff, Waller and Brown would disagree.....:rolleyes:

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6 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

Guys let’s get back in topic please ...

I've got this Scoob. Let me get things back on track.

I like the report. Thank you Rgt Hon Winston, much appreciated. This is why I voted for you mate. Because you said you'd sort out the racing game. And no other political party gives a rat's. I emailed a previous racing minister few years back. Nathan or Nigel somebody. His response was comical. Wouldn't know one end of a horse from the other. 

Right, back on track... 

Some members of certain racing clubs are kicking off. Get over it fellas. No one is bigger than the game. The recommendations are for the good of the game. 

And the sporting bodies crying about potentially losing out from a bit of coin via the TAB being "outsourced". Suck it up. How'd you get on pre-sports betting? Exactly. The money is meant to be a help, not a hand out, so look inhouse and see how big the pay packets are of the CEO's, higher and middle management within the sporting bodies. 

Sure the report has raised a few eyebrows but jesus least we now have a racing minister that is actually trying to at least do something to improve the sport/industry. Gotta give him that. 

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52 minutes ago, Rusty said:

I've got this Scoob. Let me get things back on track.

I like the report. Thank you Rgt Hon Winston, much appreciated. This is why I voted for you mate. Because you said you'd sort out the racing game. And no other political party gives a rat's. I emailed a previous racing minister few years back. Nathan or Nigel somebody. His response was comical. Wouldn't know one end of a horse from the other. 

Right, back on track... 

Some members of certain racing clubs are kicking off. Get over it fellas. No one is bigger than the game. The recommendations are for the good of the game. 

And the sporting bodies crying about potentially losing out from a bit of coin via the TAB being "outsourced". Suck it up. How'd you get on pre-sports betting? Exactly. The money is meant to be a help, not a hand out, so look inhouse and see how big the pay packets are of the CEO's, higher and middle management within the sporting bodies. 

Sure the report has raised a few eyebrows but jesus least we now have a racing minister that is actually trying to at least do something to improve the sport/industry. Gotta give him that. 

I'm not quite sure "sporting bodies crying", will be the last objection too out sourcing the tab 

with annual sports turnover well over half a billion dollars and growing year on year i am sure these sporting bodies have incorporated future payouts in their long term budgets/spending plans.....

of course the top 6 sports do make up a fair chunk of the turnover but they are also the ones who are going too lose the most.......

either way if you agree with the decision or not,sports betting profits have been a massive sponsor of racing in this country and i think they deserve too have a say as this decision will have a massive impact on each sporting codes future, you can bet your bottom dollar tabcorp wont give a stuff about the local rugby club or tennis club when they put in their tender,shareholders return will be the only thing that matters too them

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There is one huge difference in relation to differentials between sporting bodies and racing. People do sport because they want to do sport. Horses are made to be racehorses and can't talk so we need to be assured as a nation that our horses are the best cared for horses on the planet. Therefore the main beneficiary of a TAB must be racing to support the horse or dog, although dogs have a bit more choice if you know what I mean. Although sports may jump up and down, who ever leads the next stage of this change needs to tell sports to take a deep breath and take a back seat. There will be an equitable algorithm that helps all.

I can only hope that whoever is involved in any outsourcing program for the betting, that they don't do anything like make it exclusive to one operator in respect of marketing and distribution. We need to set up affiliate schemes that promote extensive viral marketing programs to get our racing and sports to as many off shore betting operators as possible. That is the future of our market and prosperity

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15 minutes ago, Berri said:

I can only hope that whoever is involved in any outsourcing program for the betting, that they don't do anything like make it exclusive to one operator in respect of marketing and distribution. We need to set up affiliate schemes that promote extensive viral marketing programs to get our racing and sports to as many off shore betting operators as possible. That is the future of our market and prosperity

Berri, from my read of the report, the single operator approach is what seems to be intended? I may have that wrong and I agree it would not make an iota of sense. I may have misinterpreted that but I don't get the rationale if I haven't.

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I'm a small time player in this game, I punt, I breed , I race , I'm involved in the local club ,a member of some associations,I go on the Stallion Parades, I buy the odd horse, I look forward to the summer race days , it's a huge part of my life and has been for decades.

I'm worried there are several persons in the sport just like me. Well I'm totally disillusioned with it dumbfounded by the lack of respect for the persons like my self who have been kicked to the pavement with very little regard. I'm told not to worry as the racing game will replace me with the 18-40yo syndicate crowd and it will be the better for it.

I'd like to be out of the game tomorrow if this all proceeds , now in the greater scheme of things I don't matter and the racing industry won't be impacted by losing me, but I wonder if there are 50 to 100 or 200 persons across the country out there just like me who feel the same way if that's the case I don't think racing will recover without its hardcore. 

The manner in which the changes have been suggested feels like waking up one morning and finding out your lover isn't the person you thought they were.

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1 hour ago, Huey said:

I'm a small time player in this game, I punt, I breed , I race , I'm involved in the local club ,a member of some associations,I go on the Stallion Parades, I buy the odd horse, I look forward to the summer race days , it's a huge part of my life and has been for decades.

I'm worried there are several persons in the sport just like me. Well I'm totally disillusioned with it dumbfounded by the lack of respect for the persons like my self who have been kicked to the pavement with very little regard. I'm told not to worry as the racing game will replace me with the 18-40yo syndicate crowd and it will be the better for it.

I'd like to be out of the game tomorrow if this all proceeds , now in the greater scheme of things I don't matter and the racing industry won't be impacted by losing me, but I wonder if there are 50 to 100 or 200 persons across the country out there just like me who feel the same way if that's the case I don't think racing will recover without its hardcore. 

The manner in which the changes have been suggested feels like waking up one morning and finding out your lover isn't the person you thought they were.

My sentiments as well Huey. You feel totally shafted and the players that could benefit directly from our demise don’t give a rats arse.I am getting tired of these guys in the media saying it’s for the good of racing etc and those saying it aren’t affected aye Mr Coppins maybe if it was your course a different tune might be sung. I like many work an outside business and pump thousands into the industry so I’m another that would walk away if this pipe dream is put into action . I’m waiting for all the small clubs to have their meetings I’d expect a huge backlash forthcoming . It’s so disbelieving to think in NZ a plan to seize land and assets could even be thought about never mind acted upon.When is the Trainers Association going to stick up for ALL their members? 

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3 hours ago, Berri said:

There is one huge difference in relation to differentials between sporting bodies and racing. People do sport because they want to do sport. Horses are made to be racehorses and can't talk so we need to be assured as a nation that our horses are the best cared for horses on the planet. Therefore the main beneficiary of a TAB must be racing to support the horse or dog, although dogs have a bit more choice if you know what I mean. Although sports may jump up and down, who ever leads the next stage of this change needs to tell sports to take a deep breath and take a back seat. There will be an equitable algorithm that helps all.

I can only hope that whoever is involved in any outsourcing program for the betting, that they don't do anything like make it exclusive to one operator in respect of marketing and distribution. We need to set up affiliate schemes that promote extensive viral marketing programs to get our racing and sports to as many off shore betting operators as possible. That is the future of our market and prosperity

Berri we already know two offers are on the table, Tabcorp will be one. $100m for 25 years is mooted and that includes our timetabling and broadcasting rights. Returns are guaranteed for only 3 years.  I can't imagine the Aussies giving our product any sort of priority over theirs can you....??? And if they don't like what's happening here, they can cut us off.....genius ain't it....?? :rolleyes:

Yet they pay $100m for five years to promote the major Carnivals...

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/vrc-and-network-ten-announce-$100m-tv-rights-deal-20180903

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100 mill 25 years returns guaranteed for 3 years. That a low ball starting point that is just rolling a dice , be mad to take that up. 22 years  as someone's yo-yo.  Totally agree NZ racing will be marginalised, they have to make a company pay high enough with as much skin in the game to make it costly to them to  marginalised NZ. If not why sell. 

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