Mattski

Messara Racing Review Full Report and 17 Key points

417 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, porky said:

Had a mate up from the South Island for the Tarzino, over a few beers he agreed, things need to change...and when looking at the cull list, he also mentioned duel code race-courses that could be saved to stop long travel times...  and the obvious ones for the chop (eg.Waipukarau) where there are too many courses (as sad as it may be) they will need to be ruthless and rustle a few feathers i suppose e.g Ellerslie V Avondale. 

Expect they are (or should be) basing changes on location, population and local trainers operating there, / dual-tri code viability, and finally financial return possibility to racing.

 

BUT WHEN THE JOB IS SEEN TO HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED AND THE POOR RURAL RACE-GOER ROBBED OF THEIR FIX, AND STAKES DOUBLED  SHORT TERM, FROM THE PROCEEDS OF SALES, AND WINSTON RETIRES A HAPPY MAN...WHATS THE LONG TERM PLAN MR ACCOUNTANT?...(NO SILVERWARE LEFT IN THE CUPBOARD.)

GET SOME BUMS ON SEATS AT THE RACES AND MAKE IT A FUN DAY OUT...YESTERDAY WAS A GOOD DAY...WELL DONE HASTINGS.

  

I'd be very surprised if any of the tracks that are to be closed aren't financially self sustainable , so what they are saying is we can't keep those ones open because the way we have structured racing in NZ they need to be sold to keep the ones open that have had to have financial input into them to already stay open not to mention the best of dates etc.

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2 hours ago, Allovertheform said:

I HAVE A MASSIVE IDEA AROUND THESE ONCE A YEAR CLUBS WHO RACE AROUND THE XMAS/NY PERIOD WHO ARE GETTING CLOSED FOR ALSORTS OF REASONS WITH THIS REPORT THAT COME OUT THURSDAY.

WHO HAVE ALL READY MADE NOISE THAT THEY DON'T WON'T CLOSED AND SOME OF THESE CLUBS HAVE VERY LONG AND PROUD HISTORY SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THERE POINT OF THINGS  BUT NEW ZEALAND NEEDS TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR RACING GOING FOWARD AND HAVING 48 TRACKS IS SIMPLY NOT ONE OF THEM.

TO GO AND COPY SOMTHING ALONG THE LINES OF THE PICNIC RACING IN AUSTRALIA. IT MIGHT NOT BE WHAT THE CLUBS WON'T BUT AT LEAST THEY STILL GET TO KEEP THERE RACING CLUBS GOING AND I AM SURE TRAINERS WILL SUPPORT THIS IDEA BECAUSE NOT EVERY HORSE CAN WIN A BIG RACE AND MIGHT EVAN KEEP SOME HORSES RACING LONGER WHO NOS WHAT'S AROUND THE CORNER ALL I NO IS THAT SOMTHING NEEDS TO COME OF THE REPORT.

Mrs Cubes wants to see this post b4 IT GOT EDITed .

But she agrees.....though AOTF your plan is depenDant on attracting stake money for owners maybe , cause they won't be getting it from NZRB/NZTR .

Oh , and at the same time someone appears to be trying to nick your track .

 

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2 hours ago, Allovertheform said:

I HAVE A MASSIVE IDEA AROUND THESE ONCE A YEAR CLUBS WHO RACE AROUND THE XMAS/NY PERIOD WHO ARE GETTING CLOSED FOR ALSORTS OF REASONS WITH THIS REPORT THAT COME OUT THURSDAY.

WHO HAVE ALL READY MADE NOISE THAT THEY DON'T WON'T CLOSED AND SOME OF THESE CLUBS HAVE VERY LONG AND PROUD HISTORY SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THERE POINT OF THINGS  BUT NEW ZEALAND NEEDS TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR RACING GOING FOWARD AND HAVING 48 TRACKS IS SIMPLY NOT ONE OF THEM.

TO GO AND COPY SOMTHING ALONG THE LINES OF THE PICNIC RACING IN AUSTRALIA. IT MIGHT NOT BE WHAT THE CLUBS WON'T BUT AT LEAST THEY STILL GET TO KEEP THERE RACING CLUBS GOING AND I AM SURE TRAINERS WILL SUPPORT THIS IDEA BECAUSE NOT EVERY HORSE CAN WIN A BIG RACE AND MIGHT EVAN KEEP SOME HORSES RACING LONGER WHO NOS WHAT'S AROUND THE CORNER ALL I NO IS THAT SOMTHING NEEDS TO COME OF THE REPORT.

Still is mate....and NO NEED TO SHOUT.......:rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Red Rum said:

What are the chances of this legislation getting though. Land confiscation act basically . Surely this is  going  to spark huge parliamentary debate considering precedents . If say NZ footy codes get strapped for cash can they take the local kids field and turn it into luxury flats when they want with no compo by pushing though a similar act.I suppose it's how much individual MPs tow partly line and vote as instructed. Surely National MPs would be against it , greens are against government walking over people's rights are they not ? 

National has nothing but contempt for Winston.

Labour on the other hand have shown a desire to override local government and legislate to harvest land for housing or to ignore The Unitary Plan.

Greens will be on the fence but those low bastards trade anything, see the Waka Jumping Bill for example.

More chaos to follow though me thinks 

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$600 a head and a sneak preview from Winston on Wednesday night .

Ex stuff , $600 a head for their dinner. Many were from the world of breeding and racing: Te Akau Stud's David and Karyn Fenton-Ellis, Blandford Farm's Graham Bax, Brendan and Jo Lindsay of Lindsay Racing, and Mark Chitty of Haunui Farms. Peters had good news for them: he had delivered everything he promised. Not just one all-weather racecourse but three, not just tax breaks in the Budget; the very next day he would be announcing plans to restructure the NZ Racing Board. 

He did not discuss details but he boasted of his restructuring plans to his wealthy donors, even before he'd disclosed them to the Racing Board itself.

The following evening at Claudelands Events Centre in Hamilton, Peters unveiled the proposed restructuring: slashing the numbers of small courses from 48 to 28 .

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On 9/1/2018 at 1:31 PM, poundforpound said:

So a very learned person, with a great brain, calls me and said “go read p66, the last two paragraphs, of the Messara report”.

So I did......this is a fucking amazing bit of chicanery and involves the appropriation by way of legislative change, of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of assets and real estate, then transferring those assets into the control of a NZTR !!

NZTR, OMG, they are so woefully inept at virtually everything they attempt, and here they’re going to take over what’ll be in excess of a billion dollars worth of industry assets.

For example, Ellerslie now has to hand over their land, that’s about 500 million in real estate, plus all their cash reserves, that’s currentky 50 million to the ownership of NZTR, add in Te Rapa, 50 hectares at say 5-7 million a hectare.....add in Avondale ( subject to zoning changes, another 200 million there ). and this is the greatest theft of all time, and the likes of MIA / PAM Jackson will now control ALL the industries assets.!!!

Here’s the clause, and it’s repeated twice, from p66 of the report..

As usual the brain dead fucking idiots have been raped here, and yet again Racing is getting what it deserves.

 

So, we believe it will be absolutely essential to the successful future of the New Zealand thoroughbred racing industry that the Racing Act 2003, and any other relevant legislation, be amended to provide unambiguously for the transfer to NZTR of title to all thoroughbred racecourses and training facilities currently owned freehold by Race Clubs and also ownership of all net assets. The amendments should expressly include provisions providing NZTR with the right to close a venue and sell the freehold land owned by a Race Club/s in circumstances where NZTR determines in its sole discretion not to issue licences to any Club/s to race at that venue, or in the case the dissolution of a Race Club. There should also be a requirement that NZTR invests the

Don’t get over excited there PFP, there is no legal precedent where an incorporated society with a defined constitution (club) that describes what is to be concluded should liquidation of that Society (club) [if it happens] occur. The actual outcome is defined in the constitution of the club, it does not automatically transfer or delivers the proceeds of that sale to a leasing licence provider.

Put simply, you own your mobile phone, if you sell it, do you give the proceeds to Vodafone, Spark, 2 Degrees or whichever provider you use. Of course not.

As far as I am aware, the sitting Govt would have the devils own job of trying to take ownership of the any land and then selling it to gain the proceeds. That is according to NZRB’s own lawyers report, Bell Gully, completed some years ago. Your mate Stiassny explored that possibility and was advised to go no further.

NZTR tried a manoeuvre a couple of years back with clubs to change their constitutions to gain this same outcome, I am not sure what the success rate was for NZTR, but poor outlook for the clubs that did accept that constitutional amendment.

There will be a protracted outcome to some of the reduction of courses, in saying that I believe we have to accept the report for what it is, reality.......................

I hope there is someone to be appointed who can manage the plan and gain the outcome desired.  

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2 hours ago, Leggy said:

A starting point for what? Nicking the assets of the clubs which have best managed those?

No I mean for discussion if we as an industry dont agree dont sit back and sulk do something about it as a group as a united front...if you dont agree with the report lets all come up with something else that works or take action strike do anything but lets not whinge and whine in here we all need to get together and do whats BEST FOR EVERYONE not just a few.

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47 minutes ago, John Clydesdale said:

Don’t get over excited there PFP, there is no legal precedent where an incorporated society with a defined constitution (club) that describes what is to be concluded should liquidation of that Society (club) [if it happens] occur. The actual outcome is defined in the constitution of the club, it does not automatically transfer or delivers the proceeds of that sale to a leasing licence provider.

Put simply, you own your mobile phone, if you sell it, do you give the proceeds to Vodafone, Spark, 2 Degrees or whichever provider you use. Of course not.

As far as I am aware, the sitting Govt would have the devils own job of trying to take ownership of the any land and then selling it to gain the proceeds. That is according to NZRB’s own lawyers report, Bell Gully, completed some years ago. Your mate Stiassny explored that possibility and was advised to go no further.

NZTR tried a manoeuvre a couple of years back with clubs to change their constitutions to gain this same outcome, I am not sure what the success rate was for NZTR, but poor outlook for the clubs that did accept that constitutional amendment.

There will be a protracted outcome to some of the reduction of courses, in saying that I believe we have to accept the report for what it is, reality.......................

I hope there is someone to be appointed who can manage the plan and gain the outcome desired.  

Read the report John.....I didn’t write it but it’s absolutely crystal clear in what it says.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

No I mean for discussion if we as an industry dont agree dont sit back and sulk do something about it as a group as a united front...if you dont agree with the report lets all come up with something else that works or take action strike do anything but lets not whinge and whine in here we all need to get together and do whats BEST FOR EVERYONE not just a few.

Exactly!.....and quickly!!! This is our last chance at Government level to make positive change whatever we decide as a group for the better of all in this industry.  Ive not seen any politician in the past 50 years give this much attention to the racing game as Sir Winston Peters. Expect it to be another 100 years before this happens again. Not that any of us will be here to worry but will the racing industry?.....your choice!

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9 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Exactly!.....and quickly!!! This is our last chance at Government level to make positive change whatever we decide as a group for the better of all in this industry.  Ive not seen any politician in the past 50 years give this much attention to the racing game as Sir Winston Peters. Expect it to be another 100 years before this happens again. Not that any of us will be here to worry but will the racing industry?.....your choice!

Yep fair call but you don’t shit on your brothers . 

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13 minutes ago, puha said:

Yep fair call but you don’t shit on your brothers . 

Agree!.... but the brothers need to stick together like shit, come up with a smart positive alternative and make a choice before the industry is left with a big pile of ....:rcf-poo:!

1. Can't we sell just 49% of the TAB
2. Close NZRB & NZTR ? :rcf-cool: Save Millions!

Personally I think we could all run the industry from Race Cafe at half the cost and do a better job. :rcfe-like:

Lets start a Race Cafe committee!....NZRC :rcf-laughing-2:

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10 , Introduce Race Field and Point Of Consumption Tax legislation expeditiously. These two measures will bring New Zealand’s racing industry into line with its Australian counterparts and provide much needed additional revenue.

So is this (10) an endorsement of the racing boards race fields legislation that's been held up (or abandoned) while waiting for this report , according to the racing board it was going to be a very big contributor to the racing industry . If this is that plan then clearly Messara thinks it will work , perhaps that's all that's really needed , the rest could be just breeders/big clubs taking advantage of the current situation to advance their own causes .

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Why doesn't NZTR  just take the assetts of all clubs and manage them like a big Fonterra type company for the "Industry".

HRNZ could do the same. Also Greyhounds.

Could even float with members of clubs getting preferential share entitlements

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5 hours ago, Patiti said:

Why doesn't NZTR  just take the assetts of all clubs and manage them like a big Fonterra type company for the "Industry".

HRNZ could do the same. Also Greyhounds.

Could even float with members of clubs getting preferential share entitlements

Did you just join the thread?

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Can I just make a point.

At no point does Messara propose”selling” the TAB....rather he suggests “ outsourcing “ their gambling services, dates, scheduling etc.........there’s a big difference 

What he’s effectively proposing is converting what we now know as the TAB / NZRB into a simple clearing house for incoming funds ( plus a few menial tasks like moving terminal operators around the country as required, and running the retail facilities to manage the pokies )

The remainder of their core activities, gambling, scheduling and media will be outsourced, and the powers he’s proposing be removed from the NZRB will be invested in the codes.

My thought for you is this......do you seriously think NZTR can manage anything ?

Try to name one thing they’ve done in the last 20 years that’s been beneficial to the wider industry ?

How could you possibly invest any trust in NZTR, as an example, look how they’ve managed the handicapping system..a system written by an Australian and mismanaged by a series of Australians since, all to the detriment of NZ Racing.

 

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

 

How could you possibly invest any trust in NZTR, as an example, look how they’ve managed the handicapping system..a system written by an Australian and mismanaged by a series of Australians since, all to the detriment of NZ Racing.

 

Exactly the scenario we've got now. Giving the Aussies control of our timetables and broadcast rights without any guarantees would be suicidal....NZ Racing would become a "filler" for the wall to wall Australian product and pretty much ignored during their major Carnivals. Can you imagine our major races being given any meaningful marketing/Promotion or lead in time for that matter. And with monetary returns only being guaranteed for 3 years they could cut us off at the knees if for whatever reason they don't like what is happening.... The negotiators have a job on their hands here.

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Just having breakfast and opened the ''new' NZTR site on my lap top.......the first thing that struck me, the calendar in the bar across the top, glaringly, No Meetings, No Meetings, No meetings......isn't that sad. The reality of course is A. There aren't the horses, B. There isn't the money, C, There isn't the inclination. 

So, the elephant in the room is where does the money come from to pay ALL the wages for Petone and Parnell......while the industry sits idle, where is the money being generated? where? the industry is not self funding we know that, why can't all trials in NZ be on a Mon or a Tue, most are, but many aren't,....they successfully do this in Oz and it's no shame to replicate what works across the pond. I have never seen so many horses have to trial before racing, I know your tracks have been terrible due to the weather, a new AW or Strath track will assist, although being privy to seeing the many strathayr tracks here in OZ, I have my doubts they will survive your weather, which is far more savage than here plus your soil compositions might not 'take' the strath grass.

It's shameful to open the offical site of our industry only to see NO meetings!!!! fair dinkum, they must be laughing in HQ, what on earth do they do all day, has anyone ever asked,.... P4P has to his credit, and often, but to improve grass roots, management MUST he called to account, until that happens, well ....you all know the end result.....

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In fairness,  Zippy,  Monday/Tuesday racing was tried - under the previous CEO.

Advice was given from all and sundry that it couldn't work,  traditionally there isn't the betting interest to make it pay.

A very experienced administrator told me that our 'best' Monday was the former Great Northern Steeples day,  a national public holiday and with our best winter handicappers/ jumpers on display.

But the interest from over the ditch was virtually non-existent.  What show has an industry day with a bunch of slugs got of attracting any sort of wagering at all?  he asked.

Clearly none, it didn't fly,  all the advice was right and that experiment was abandoned.

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24 minutes ago, La Zip said:

Just having breakfast and opened the ''new' NZTR site on my lap top.......the first thing that struck me, the calendar in the bar across the top, glaringly, No Meetings, No Meetings, No meetings......isn't that sad. The reality of course is A. There aren't the horses, B. There isn't the money, C, There isn't the inclination. 

So, the elephant in the room is where does the money come from to pay ALL the wages for Petone and Parnell......while the industry sits idle, where is the money being generated? where? the industry is not self funding we know that, why can't all trials in NZ be on a Mon or a Tue, most are, but many aren't,....they successfully do this in Oz and it's no shame to replicate what works across the pond. I have never seen so many horses have to trial before racing, I know your tracks have been terrible due to the weather, a new AW or Strath track will assist, although being privy to seeing the many strathayr tracks here in OZ, I have my doubts they will survive your weather, which is far more savage than here plus your soil compositions might not 'take' the strath grass.

It's shameful to open the offical site of our industry only to see NO meetings!!!! fair dinkum, they must be laughing in HQ, what on earth do they do all day, has anyone ever asked,.... P4P has to his credit, and often, but to improve grass roots, management MUST he called to account, until that happens, well ....you all know the end result.....

I think a huge part of it is a lack of population. Monday and Tuesday in UK normally poor stuff but due to population it's no issue running 3k sellers , claimers,low grade handicaps  from  the gaffs . Betting shops have decent amount of the huge numbers of the  great unwashed in the cities keeping warm or cool depending on season drinking free coffee and punting up their dole cheque  and lunchtime the workers  zip down to William Hill or Ladbrokes still popular.Now with floodlight racing the workers get home and fire up the online account year around. I used to enjoy going racing on a Monday at the gaffs as a shift worker, was decent amount people on course, betting ring still seemed  busy most days  and always seemed a bit of a shift worker bonus .

As for trials I've come from background punting of no trials form at all.The closest I feel safe to a horse is the outside of the paddock rail so prepping a horse for race not my strong point  however they do seem to trial a lot here which I cannot understand. Gosden, Stoute , Cecil , etc , never read of them calling for trials meetings. End of the day  a race like the  Wood Ditton you know all first time out and once chance gone horse going to get a tender ride , it's how it is .Follow the money in those races. Not saying no trials just seems a lot that's all.Mind you I was looking at that Frankel - More Joyous filly called Women's form for Waterhouse Stable out of interest as her half brother ran I  first Randwick , one win one run and more trials than Columbo , I cannot work it out. 

 

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