Mattski

Messara Racing Review Full Report and 17 Key points

417 posts in this topic

Just now, drewandjo said:

not stirring at all......but there is nothing that says strathayr won't be considered as an option........

No but they have mentioned other types of tracks all synthetic, no mention of Strathayr,so he is correct...with what he has said to date.

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33 minutes ago, drewandjo said:

not stirring at all......but there is nothing that says strathayr won't be considered as an option........what did I say that was "trying to ruin" the thread....I thought this place was about balanced debate

Strathayr is a turf track, not a synthetic and the report refers to synthetics in all cases giving examples that are synthetic, not Strathayr. Read it again.

As to the number of race meetings that could be held on these synthetic
tracks, it is reasonable to assume that anywhere between 20 and 40 meetings
is realistic. On the now 3 years’ old Pakenham Polytrack track at Tynong in
Victoria they race up to about 30 times per year, with 20 scheduled synthetic
track meetings plus transferred meetings. At the one synthetic track in Ireland
(Dundalk) they race almost 40 times per year, and at one of the 6 synthetic
tracks in Britain (Wolverhampton) they race almost 100 times per year.

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39 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Strathayr is a turf track, not a synthetic and the report refers to synthetics in all cases giving examples that are synthetic, not Strathayr. Read it again.

As to the number of race meetings that could be held on these synthetic
tracks, it is reasonable to assume that anywhere between 20 and 40 meetings
is realistic. On the now 3 years’ old Pakenham Polytrack track at Tynong in
Victoria they race up to about 30 times per year, with 20 scheduled synthetic
track meetings plus transferred meetings. At the one synthetic track in Ireland
(Dundalk) they race almost 40 times per year, and at one of the 6 synthetic
tracks in Britain (Wolverhampton) they race almost 100 times per year.

Thanks Leggy you better tell poor consumed Hesi nobody is doing anything here to stop anyone posting is full of it...... we are flying and we are the site having the great debate on this issue... so Hesi please keep coming to visit you may learn something as i am sure you are very curious too...:rcf-tongue-2:

Yes they never once mentioned Strathayr at all, cant understand why, its a great surface.

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

Weigh In Sunday 10am. Peters, Saundry, Allen all being interviewed. Should be interesting.

Oh, God, what will we learn from that discourse, self interest spring to mind? Peters has been seen to be active, that's a start, the other two, what on earth can they bring to the table, if it's to be believed there will be a clean out, so why have Allen and Saundry on?.....surely they are now irrelevant......

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Just now, La Zip said:

Oh, God, what will we learn from that discourse, self interest spring to mind? Peters has been seen to be active, that's a start, the other two, what on earth can they bring to the table, if it's to be believed there will be a clean out, so why have Allen and Saundry on?.....surely they are now irrelevant......

Allen is useless from whats been seen to date, as he has been in other roles too, Saundry was very well regarded in Victoria from a good friend of mine. But it is not heading in the right direction, they need a few town halls or something with real stakeholders there, and a board appointed to listen and have the power to make the agreed changes after this.

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8 minutes ago, La Zip said:

Oh, God, what will we learn from that discourse, self interest spring to mind? Peters has been seen to be active, that's a start, the other two, what on earth can they bring to the table, if it's to be believed there will be a clean out, so why have Allen and Saundry on?.....surely they are now irrelevant......

Pleading their cases no doubt.....:rolleyes:

The subtle Report indications about qualifications and "appointing members" come into focus.

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I can see this whole land appropriation thing being a huge shit fight.  Lawyers will cream the thick end of the proceeds. I suppose the authorities will argue they paid a portion of upkeep, if that's the case. But I might look after the garden if I rented a house , but I don't own the bloody house.  Club members will argue the free labour over generations of people over the years. Likes Reefton have a sports field in middle I recollect so what's guts of that , sub divide the 1000 metre track , would be an odd housing development.  Authorities got whip hand in  killing clubs due to fixture allocation but acquisition of   that much  land with no payment, wow that's gone on in some now third world countries has it not.

Would the US jockey club or BHA in UK steam in and force takeover Churchill Downs Inc tracks , Stronach Group tracks or Arena Leisure tracks with no financial compensation and give proceeds out at other tracks. Never ever zilch chance , they would be made  mincement of in court. Bay Meadows in California gone sold , now a Mall proceeds re invested in same  companies other tracks ,likewise Hollywood Park , not some other track owned by someone else.That's generally how business works . 

 

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4 hours ago, bloke said:

Listening to some of the fish heads Its seems that many of the problems with NZ Racing have been caused by the small clubs who must sell their assets and gift the proceeds to the industry  as reparation for being leeches on the industry over a long period.

The real truth is that the big clubs such as Trentham who set some sort of record by going bust twice in a few years (as Wellington and then Race) are the real bludgers and reading this morning's Dom Post the CEO of Trentham has the cheek to pontificate about the small Clubs and he is lining up with his hand out for more bludging   

 

 

Agree Wellington, Palmy and Hastings all have no money.Interesting all the industry players they’ve talked to on the radio are keen on the proposed changes but they all will directly benefit from their locations.Havent heard any spokesperson from the clubs directly affected yet.Maybe Des Coppins could explain to us all tomorrow why his club is worthy of staying .

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Racing: Axing clubs is NOT a done deal

1 Sep, 2018 5:00am
 3 minutes to read
Officials from Avondale Racecourse in Auckland have been raging against the dying of the light for years.
Officials from Avondale Racecourse in Auckland have been raging against the dying of the light for years.
NZ Herald
 
Thoroughbred racing bosses vowing to listen.

The closure of 20 racetracks around the country suggested in the Messara report is far from a done deal.

And thoroughbred racing bosses say they will listen to cases put forward by those clubs whose tracks are facing the axe.

The Messara review of racing was released by Racing Minister Winston Peters on Thursday and the most emotionally jarring recommendation was the closure of 20 thoroughbred tracks to save costs and in some cases for the land to be sold to contribute to racing's future.

The economics of closing at least some of New Zealand's 48 thoroughbred tracks is indisputable, the major problem being nobody wants it to be their club.

Although those behind the jewel in the crown of racetrack closure, Avondale, won't officially comment on the proposed sale of their track with the money to go into industry coffers, they have raged against the dying of the light for decades so don't look likely to sell up and give up.

Others such as Rotorua and Timaru, who between them have 18 meetings this season, are simply against closure and believe their local communities will be too.

"We have a meeting to discuss the report, and obviously our recommended closure, next week," said Rotorua chairman Andrew Bryant.

"But I am absolutely certain we will make our case to stay open. We are disappointed because we were never consulted about any of this.

"And even if the about 50 per cent of the track we own outright was ever closed and sold, I am sure the local community would want that money staying in Rotorua, not going to meetings in Tauranga.

"I don't think that makes long-term sense."

Timaru president Noel Walker says their track is the best racing surface in the South Island and the industry wouldn't be getting any of the club's money.

Although the track closures were a key recommendation of the Messara report, NZTR boss Bernard Saundry says the 20 tracks suggested are not all certain to close. "Obviously we can't survive with 48 tracks, we can't afford to run them all and I think everybody in the industry agrees on that," says Saundry.

"But the minister was very open about the fact there would be room for consultation and we will listen to what clubs have to say, of course we will.

"Some clubs may want to sell and then restructure and we will listen to their ideas."

While Messara's list is a starting point and the majority of the tracks mooted for closure will almost certainly do so, few people at even the highest levels of New Zealand racing have yet got their heads around how the acquisition of any funds from those sales will go.

The exact legal footing under which New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing can annex the proceeds from any racetracks sold was hazy to most of the dozens of industry participants the Weekend Herald spoke to yesterday.

Confusing matters further, the three codes have been working together on their own future venue plan, to be released in October, and some of the tracks Messara has suggested closing were not on the code's hit list so could be saved.

Chopping block
The 20 tracks mooted for closure are: 
Dargaville, Avondale, Thames, Rotorua, Wairoa, Stratford, Hawera, Waipukurau, Woodville, Reefton, Greymouth, Hokitika, Motukarara, Timaru, Kurow, Oamaru, Waimate, Omakau, Winton and Gore.

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So a very learned person, with a great brain, calls me and said “go read p66, the last two paragraphs, of the Messara report”.

So I did......this is a fucking amazing bit of chicanery and involves the appropriation by way of legislative change, of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of assets and real estate, then transferring those assets into the control of a NZTR !!

NZTR, OMG, they are so woefully inept at virtually everything they attempt, and here they’re going to take over what’ll be in excess of a billion dollars worth of industry assets.

For example, Ellerslie now has to hand over their land, that’s about 500 million in real estate, plus all their cash reserves, that’s currentky 50 million to the ownership of NZTR, add in Te Rapa, 50 hectares at say 5-7 million a hectare.....add in Avondale ( subject to zoning changes, another 200 million there ). and this is the greatest theft of all time, and the likes of MIA / PAM Jackson will now control ALL the industries assets.!!!

Here’s the clause, and it’s repeated twice, from p66 of the report..

As usual the brain dead fucking idiots have been raped here, and yet again Racing is getting what it deserves.

 

So, we believe it will be absolutely essential to the successful future of the New Zealand thoroughbred racing industry that the Racing Act 2003, and any other relevant legislation, be amended to provide unambiguously for the transfer to NZTR of title to all thoroughbred racecourses and training facilities currently owned freehold by Race Clubs and also ownership of all net assets. The amendments should expressly include provisions providing NZTR with the right to close a venue and sell the freehold land owned by a Race Club/s in circumstances where NZTR determines in its sole discretion not to issue licences to any Club/s to race at that venue, or in the case the dissolution of a Race Club. There should also be a requirement that NZTR invests the

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The article above from the Herald.

Not sure how much of a hearing those 20 clubs will get...

If not all of the 20 clubs are for the chop, then how many and which ones do racecafers agree are best to be gone?

Why would the Dual Code tracks at Timaru, Oamaru, Gore, Winton and Wyndham all be done away with? Wouldn't their (if any) upkeep be 50% funded by harness therefore making them more attractive to keep? Especially as most of them have good surfaces. 

Obviously wasn't possible for Forbury move out to the Wingatui venue, or Addington and Riccarton to start fresh somewhere with sale proceeds? CJC would want more than muskets from this next sale though.  

Are the gypsies in the most trouble as they will now have to fund 100% of the dual code venues that Nztr are due to cut off?

Mr Peters said Gypies and Dogs will both be better off after all changes are implemented, but also said that betting % payouts will be aligned to each codes generation (which I agree with, sports included). So I imagine the two minor codes will be struggling until Mr Peters grand plan starts to pay off.....    

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1 hour ago, dock leaf said:

The article above from the Herald.

Not sure how much of a hearing those 20 clubs will get...

If not all of the 20 clubs are for the chop, then how many and which ones do racecafers agree are best to be gone?

Why would the Dual Code tracks at Timaru, Oamaru, Gore, Winton and Wyndham all be done away with? Wouldn't their (if any) upkeep be 50% funded by harness therefore making them more attractive to keep? Especially as most of them have good surfaces. 

Obviously wasn't possible for Forbury move out to the Wingatui venue, or Addington and Riccarton to start fresh somewhere with sale proceeds? CJC would want more than muskets from this next sale though.  

Are the gypsies in the most trouble as they will now have to fund 100% of the dual code venues that Nztr are due to cut off?

Mr Peters said Gypies and Dogs will both be better off after all changes are implemented, but also said that betting % payouts will be aligned to each codes generation (which I agree with, sports included). So I imagine the two minor codes will be struggling until Mr Peters grand plan starts to pay off.....    

Just about all of those South Island tracks are dual code....Motukarara is a lovely spot on Banks Peninsula....grass track trots.

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I can only wish them luck writing that into legislation without overriding the provisions of the Acts under which clubs are constitutionalised. If they somehow succeed, I'd say we will have a lot less racing clubs. That section is fraught with error. It somehow seems to be arguing that club members don't own the assets. Of course they don't and that is written in most constitutions as he points out. Everyone knows that.The entity owns the assets and they are to be deployed for the objectives of the club and in the event of dissolution, generally to be distributed charitably to the communities which provided and developed them.

It would be a heist alright if they can pull it off. I doubt it though and it will certainly take years if it happens and the clubs will then just walk away and de-register so they are not bound by the Act.

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20 hours ago, Huey said:

Youre kidding right?

That's been done to death and if racing fully subscribes to that mantra its dead and buried in this country.

Ever raced a horse with some of these 18-40yos ? they have they staying power/patience of an Aus breed stayer in the MC , when do they get involved and how at club level cause thats still an integral part of racing in this country.  That's why most of them are suited to those big stable syndicates that stroke their ego,engage in extreme hype,have a handbook of excuses and brush their brow when they enviably realise that not every horse is fast and that they don't win all the time. Yep they'll defintely save the industry .. but I digress.

 

Gofta you are spot on.....without the next generation of owners, this industry will not survive. Attend the races in Australia, its great see so many younger owners on course, they are the future of the industry and Huey, we need to engage this demographic more to set up our future.

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36 minutes ago, Leggy said:

I can only wish them luck writing that into legislation without overriding the provisions of the Acts under which clubs are constitutionalised. If they somehow succeed, I'd say we will have a lot less racing clubs. That section is fraught with error. It somehow seems to be arguing that club members don't own the assets. Of course they don't and that is written in most constitutions as he points out. Everyone knows that.The entity owns the assets and they are to be deployed for the objectives of the club and in the event of dissolution, generally to be distributed charitably to the communities which provided and developed them.

It would be a heist alright if they can pull it off. I doubt it though and it will certainly take years if it happens and the clubs will then just walk away and de-register so they are not bound by the Act.

How about the snatch on Ellerslie’s 50 million cash reserves !!

There’s the funding for three Strathayrs.

It’s quite outrageous, but deceptively brilliant, until you consider Saundry and MIA fiddling with a billion dollars worth of industry cash and real estate assets, or should I say transferring those assets from the thoroughbred code to stakes for subsidizing the breeders Racing interests !!

Classic, rob the poor to pay the fucking rich.

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Agreed. If the racing clubs own the courses, how can the N.Z.R.B. assume ownership unless by illegal chicanery. The board could withdraw licences to hold meetings but can't take land to which it has no right. Likewise, who owns the T.A.B.? Having read the book on its history a few years ago, I gained the impression that it owned itself. Understood that loans raised from racing clubs, when it was established in 1951, were quickly repaid. Since then, I imagine that a government has presumed ownership of a cash cow, soon to be flog it off to the highest bidder.

Agree with the rationalization of courses. Example - West Coast of South Island can't justify 4 courses for gallops (was 5) when all are pony tracks, hold very few meetings per year and will never raise the revenue to improve facilities from so few meetings. Despite the distances, it should still be seen as a community and one course of a good size with good facilities should be the aim. Awapuni has incorporated Feilding, Marton, Rangitikei, Ashhurst-Pohangina (was a course at Ashhurst once) clubs and each can maintain an identity. With the decline of rural populations and better roads, travel to another venue should not be seen as a deterrent to attending. Other factors have impacted on racing; 7 days shopping, which lead to 7 working days, Lotto for its ease and promotion as a game (whereas it is poor gambling),  the rise of coffee culture - once was just a hot drink but now almost a cultural experience, shorter attention spans whereby people panic if they are not attached to their cell-phones continuously, shopping now seen as a leisure activity for many.

As with other sports, attendance is greater where better quality events are held. How many watch club rugby now?

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3 hours ago, Phar Lap Fan said:

Agreed. If the racing clubs own the courses, how can the N.Z.R.B. assume ownership unless by illegal chicanery. The board could withdraw licences to hold meetings but can't take land to which it has no right. Likewise, who owns the T.A.B.? Having read the book on its history a few years ago, I gained the impression that it owned itself. Understood that loans raised from racing clubs, when it was established in 1951, were quickly repaid. Since then, I imagine that a government has presumed ownership of a cash cow, soon to be flog it off to the highest bidder.

Agree with the rationalization of courses. Example - West Coast of South Island can't justify 4 courses for gallops (was 5) when all are pony tracks, hold very few meetings per year and will never raise the revenue to improve facilities from so few meetings. Despite the distances, it should still be seen as a community and one course of a good size with good facilities should be the aim. Awapuni has incorporated Feilding, Marton, Rangitikei, Ashhurst-Pohangina (was a course at Ashhurst once) clubs and each can maintain an identity. With the decline of rural populations and better roads, travel to another venue should not be seen as a deterrent to attending. Other factors have impacted on racing; 7 days shopping, which lead to 7 working days, Lotto for its ease and promotion as a game (whereas it is poor gambling),  the rise of coffee culture - once was just a hot drink but now almost a cultural experience, shorter attention spans whereby people panic if they are not attached to their cell-phones continuously, shopping now seen as a leisure activity for many.

As with other sports, attendance is greater where better quality events are held. How many watch club rugby now?

How can you make comment when you can't even distinguish between the administrative body and the wagering arm in the industry?

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