RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Mattski

Messara Racing Review Full Report and 17 Key points

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I'm a small time player in this game, I punt, I breed , I race , I'm involved in the local club ,a member of some associations,I go on the Stallion Parades, I buy the odd horse, I look forward to the summer race days , it's a huge part of my life and has been for decades.

I'm worried there are several persons in the sport just like me. Well I'm totally disillusioned with it dumbfounded by the lack of respect for the persons like my self who have been kicked to the pavement with very little regard. I'm told not to worry as the racing game will replace me with the 18-40yo syndicate crowd and it will be the better for it.

I'd like to be out of the game tomorrow if this all proceeds , now in the greater scheme of things I don't matter and the racing industry won't be impacted by losing me, but I wonder if there are 50 to 100 or 200 persons across the country out there just like me who feel the same way if that's the case I don't think racing will recover without its hardcore. 

The manner in which the changes have been suggested feels like waking up one morning and finding out your lover isn't the person you thought they were.

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1 hour ago, Huey said:

I'm a small time player in this game, I punt, I breed , I race , I'm involved in the local club ,a member of some associations,I go on the Stallion Parades, I buy the odd horse, I look forward to the summer race days , it's a huge part of my life and has been for decades.

I'm worried there are several persons in the sport just like me. Well I'm totally disillusioned with it dumbfounded by the lack of respect for the persons like my self who have been kicked to the pavement with very little regard. I'm told not to worry as the racing game will replace me with the 18-40yo syndicate crowd and it will be the better for it.

I'd like to be out of the game tomorrow if this all proceeds , now in the greater scheme of things I don't matter and the racing industry won't be impacted by losing me, but I wonder if there are 50 to 100 or 200 persons across the country out there just like me who feel the same way if that's the case I don't think racing will recover without its hardcore. 

The manner in which the changes have been suggested feels like waking up one morning and finding out your lover isn't the person you thought they were.

My sentiments as well Huey. You feel totally shafted and the players that could benefit directly from our demise don’t give a rats arse.I am getting tired of these guys in the media saying it’s for the good of racing etc and those saying it aren’t affected aye Mr Coppins maybe if it was your course a different tune might be sung. I like many work an outside business and pump thousands into the industry so I’m another that would walk away if this pipe dream is put into action . I’m waiting for all the small clubs to have their meetings I’d expect a huge backlash forthcoming . It’s so disbelieving to think in NZ a plan to seize land and assets could even be thought about never mind acted upon.When is the Trainers Association going to stick up for ALL their members? 

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3 hours ago, Berri said:

There is one huge difference in relation to differentials between sporting bodies and racing. People do sport because they want to do sport. Horses are made to be racehorses and can't talk so we need to be assured as a nation that our horses are the best cared for horses on the planet. Therefore the main beneficiary of a TAB must be racing to support the horse or dog, although dogs have a bit more choice if you know what I mean. Although sports may jump up and down, who ever leads the next stage of this change needs to tell sports to take a deep breath and take a back seat. There will be an equitable algorithm that helps all.

I can only hope that whoever is involved in any outsourcing program for the betting, that they don't do anything like make it exclusive to one operator in respect of marketing and distribution. We need to set up affiliate schemes that promote extensive viral marketing programs to get our racing and sports to as many off shore betting operators as possible. That is the future of our market and prosperity

Berri we already know two offers are on the table, Tabcorp will be one. $100m for 25 years is mooted and that includes our timetabling and broadcasting rights. Returns are guaranteed for only 3 years.  I can't imagine the Aussies giving our product any sort of priority over theirs can you....??? And if they don't like what's happening here, they can cut us off.....genius ain't it....?? :rolleyes:

Yet they pay $100m for five years to promote the major Carnivals...

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/vrc-and-network-ten-announce-$100m-tv-rights-deal-20180903

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100 mill 25 years returns guaranteed for 3 years. That a low ball starting point that is just rolling a dice , be mad to take that up. 22 years  as someone's yo-yo.  Totally agree NZ racing will be marginalised, they have to make a company pay high enough with as much skin in the game to make it costly to them to  marginalised NZ. If not why sell. 

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3 hours ago, Huey said:

I'm told not to worry as the racing game will replace me with the 18-40yo syndicate crowd and it will be the better for it.

 in the greater scheme of things I don't matter and the racing industry won't be impacted by losing me, but I wonder if there are 50 to 100 or 200 persons across the country out there just like me who feel the same way if that's the case I don't think racing will recover without its hardcore. 

 

 

2 hours ago, puha said:

My sentiments as well Huey. You feel totally shafted and the players that could benefit directly from our demise don’t give a rats arse.

I’m waiting for all the small clubs to have their meetings, I’d expect a huge backlash forthcoming .

It’s so disbelieving to think in NZ a plan to seize land and assets could even be thought about never mind acted upon.When is the Trainers Association going to stick up for ALL their members? 

Shit you guys have got stickability, your game, loyal, stayers... I gave up hope 5 or 6 years ago and just go to the races for a punt now-days.

As I said earlier, what next when all the silverware is sold off, to up stakes, and rural participants have hopped across the Tasman ?

Hope they have a long term plan for keeping Stakes at a sustainable level to keep all grades racing horses (like yourselves ) in the game.

The big breeders and overpaid free drinking admin.should be brought into line and hit in the pocket with the Grass root grafters,( to get us out of the shit.)

That 18-40 y-o syndicate stuff hasn,t eventuated yet Huey...more like 50-80 y-o,s (at Hastings on Saturday anyway LOL) ...Fortuna syn.etc

I voted Winston for change and with the likes of Ohokaman,Berri and Red Rum,s financial nous , the industry could possibly be saved without unwanted track closures. 

  

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21 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Tom tries hard !!!!.......you’re kidding, he’s a fucking bludger who tries to run second.

Who'd go to war with him ?, how’d you feel if he was in the trenches with you, he’s a flea with a heart the size of a caraway seed.

Yes - but A $1m flea at that! Id like to have a flea like him! 

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With Tabcorp and SkyRacing merging, I can’t understand all the “anti”. NZ, Korea, USA and everywhere else are broadcast on the 3 Sky Racing channels in Oz. Betting is avail on all of them. How would NZ Racing suffer? The focus should be on those that have effectively run NZ Racing (into the ground) for the last 20 years. That’s the starting point. Get rid of the lot and start again. Racing people with the right knowledge and skills to take everyone along with them. The Breeders should be left out. Their market is overseas - Aust and HK/Singapore and then Korea and China. NZ racing doesn’t interest them really. They wouldn’t survive just selling to a local market. If Winston listens to the wrong people on how and where to go with this, then nothing will change.

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15 minutes ago, Trump said:

Yes - but A $1m flea at that! Id like to have a flea like him! 

Too right Trumpy ! Hasn't won since 2016, but placed 3 times at Group 1, twice at Group 2, 4 times at Group 3 and once at Listed level since earning a bit over A$700,000.....I doubt they are complaining.....;)

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On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:21 AM, Red Rum said:

Gambling stables, iam sure a few on here have heard of Barney Curley. The gambler of all gamblers turned trainer , mix the two , it's was gambling stable !!! I was on  course at Market Rasen in late 80s , had trip up from big smoke on day off. Low grade big field selling hurdle , he had horse UrbI Et Orbi , I remember name as Curley was good Catholic man its named after  Pope's easter service I think. Urbi had been off track unseen  by public for over 5 years , and he weren't much good then. He wasn't so much a forgotten horse but a never remembered one. Curley hadn't forgotten it. 20 odd runners , its value disappeared in a blick of an eye as the bookies got bowled over as soon as they priced it up. Urbi bolts in , favorite , job done,  and Curley shells out some of his winnings to buy old Urbi back after race.Not a one off either, he scared bookies shitless,  and was and still is a character. 

 

Maybe gambling stables is one of our biggest problems with not attracting Businessman owners or driving them out of the game ? My wife has been syndicating 1 of our horses lately and has come across several business people that have invested in  a few horses in the past and flatly refuse to invest another cent in the game , You invest a large amount in a horse pay all the substantial costs involved and these Trainers who you trust with your investment  pass all your information onto their punting mates free of charge!  In a real business that would b a breach of the Privacy Act surely?

Edited by L.J.Shannon
spelling mistake 5th word on>one

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5 minutes ago, Trump said:

With Tabcorp and SkyRacing merging, I can’t understand all the “anti”. NZ, Korea, USA and everywhere else are broadcast on the 3 Sky Racing channels in Oz. Betting is avail on all of them. How would NZ Racing suffer? The focus should be on those that have effectively run NZ Racing (into the ground) for the last 20 years. That’s the starting point. Get rid of the lot and start again. Racing people with the right knowledge and skills to take everyone along with them. The Breeders should be left out. Their market is overseas - Aust and HK/Singapore and then Korea and China. NZ racing doesn’t interest them really. They wouldn’t survive just selling to a local market. If Winston listens to the wrong people on how and where to go with this, then nothing will change.

And from this report, Jackson and his cronies, and the Breeders, have had quite a say. It basically rubberstamps what NZTR have wanted.

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2 cents worth...

Think the document an  'offer' on the table. Its sly agenda to pave a contractual way for the government to gain the FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT to sell off courses.The CONSENT or giving AUTHORITY to do so as AGREEMENT by consensus - so don't come with regret if you think different.

NZ racing long time in demise, weakened by NZTR macro to the micro. Gets to the sad case where most are saving their own skin and or, are happy with their lot.

Practices/ processes around the industry, not the case of best horse wins, but smartest horse or should I say those in the clever KNOW but unbeknown to  'us' who are horribly blissed by such ignorance and kept that way in this game, until lessons or questions teach us otherwise.

Whilst greater ownership stake monies for compensating owner investment is supposedly The Way to SaveUs All,  I think $$$$ still won't genuinely fix the basics. Its our IP image to the world going strongly amiss.  

Yes the millennial generation are savvy, innovative and passionate but so where 'we' when younger, its a changing reality we're in. I suppose this why Messara suggests accountability, professional qualification upgrading the 'image' or credibility of NZ racing.

There is so many individual entities, re: clubs, board, Jockey, Training, Breeders Association(s) who want membership & money for survival but don't show interest in entrepreneurship. Yeah, I'm gray-haired to but them grey hairs are  'fixed' and 'oh, we can't do THAT' mentality (because of $ & authority) stages doom n' gloom (still).

We loved our ol' Racing days, the heritage and the horses which showed 'em all i.e. Balmerino . This a BRAND making which we've slipped up on and we are NOT slick at it at all. (think social media attention around Winx, products, passionate people, media interests etc). Anyone ever thought of Chris Waller and Winx doing a home-town public tour show when/if she retires (as idea)? Mark Todd & Charisma did & the kids loved it). Can we use James MacDonald as a mentor to youth, Micheal Walker..... will why not for god's sake.

We have to hone down our own breeding 'rights' to on a collective scale.  Bloodlines that can't be brought back....(my eyes water at this)

When it comes down to it ...there is NO LEADERSHIP which sees the big wide picture to a greater stage, and that is what is really  the most frustrating of it all.

We need to 'specialize' something 'ours' acutely fast and smart and take it to the world.

 Awkwardly, I suppose we will be having to accept the model given and its changing-of-the-guard.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Berri said:

I wrote this some time ago for someone that wanted to understand the concept of out sourcing. May need further explanation as I wrote it in haste

Out sourcing -The Future.docx

I agree even though the Governments will fight it tooth and nail there is nothing they can do and it is only a matter of time before 90% of all gambling will be done via decentralized technologies. NZRB should join the tech revolution or miss out altogether. 

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

And from this report, Jackson and his cronies, and the Breeders, have had quite a say. It basically rubberstamps what NZTR have wanted.

Thats why it takes no account of others especially harness at dual code venues.

No depth to it.

Are we now going to get a report (s) on the harness greyhound codes.

Also sports betting not mentioned.

The Thoroughbred Racing could outsource its own product  and the rest can go jump.

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2 hours ago, L.J.Shannon said:

Maybe gambling stables is one of our biggest problems with not attracting Businessman owners or driving them out of the game ? My wife has been syndicating 1 of our horses lately and has come across several business people that have invested in  a few horses in the past and flatly refuse to invest another cent in the game , You invest a large amount in a horse pay all the substantial costs involved and these Trainers who you trust with your investment  pass all your information onto their punting mates free of charge!  In a real business that would b a breach of the Privacy Act surely?

LJ, nope two different things , real gambling stable does not pass anything on , absolutely nothing, it's like the secret service plus some. Good stable has trusted hands , it's old school.Build a horse up for a big coup.   Other types i agree yes,  if I found out iam paying for horse and it's info is divulged to all and sundry , I would be displeased. Also little illegal in   some places , jockeys  putting in  calls to mates a big no no. Few up in  UK have had visits from  authorities. 

Barney Curley owned all his own horses in his stables , he won and lost his own money. Punters just followed the money in the ring.

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2 hours ago, L.J.Shannon said:

Maybe gambling stables is one of our biggest problems with not attracting Businessman owners or driving them out of the game ? My wife has been syndicating 1 of our horses lately and has come across several business people that have invested in  a few horses in the past and flatly refuse to invest another cent in the game , You invest a large amount in a horse pay all the substantial costs involved and these Trainers who you trust with your investment  pass all your information onto their punting mates free of charge!  In a real business that would b a breach of the Privacy Act surely?

I've read some absolute rubbish in my time but this takes the cake, you don't have a gambling culture, unlike, Britain, Ireland, Australia and USA....just to name a few, hence you are up the creek, racing was established on the Newmarket Heath by King James, starting out as sweepstakes so he could usurp his fellow racing aficionados, therefore creating the industry and sport we know today.....I'm sorry Woodville's going, it;'s a great track and champions came from there to Australia like Darryl's Joy, Classic Mission, Triton, and many many more, but to say gambling is a demon and that's what you're saying is laughable......since God's dog chased a stick trainers will covert or divulge information, so too stable boys and jockeys, you obviously have felt hard done by Mr Shannon, but my Dad was a bookmaker and we trained for one of the biggest rails bookies in Victoria, they're your opinions and you are entitled to them, as I am in defending the gambling arm of our industry, and after all, getting up at 3-30am has to have some rewards financially......we kept our info close to our chests, but sometimes the trackman or the boy/s girl's would let the cat out of the bag......don't throw all trainers under the bus Mr Shannon.

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How much does NZTR and the R.B. give to the upkeep of tracks and their  super structures?

 

i can't recall ever reading anywhere.. an actual amount., this is very important..i need a 'trainspotter' like Leggy  to hunt this out for me/us please . . .Cheers Champ :)

 

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45 minutes ago, La Zip said:

I've read some absolute rubbish in my time but this takes the cake, you don't have a gambling culture, unlike, Britain, Ireland, Australia and USA....just to name a few, hence you are up the creek, racing was established on the Newmarket Heath by King James, starting out as sweepstakes so he could usurp his fellow racing aficionados, therefore creating the industry and sport we know today.....I'm sorry Woodville's going, it;'s a great track and champions came from there to Australia like Darryl's Joy, Classic Mission, Triton, and many many more, but to say gambling is a demon and that's what you're saying is laughable......since God's dog chased a stick trainers will covert or divulge information, so too stable boys and jockeys, you obviously have felt hard done by Mr Shannon, but my Dad was a bookmaker and we trained for one of the biggest rails bookies in Victoria, they're your opinions and you are entitled to them, as I am in defending the gambling arm of our industry, and after all, getting up at 3-30am has to have some rewards financially......we kept our info close to our chests, but sometimes the trackman or the boy/s girl's would let the cat out of the bag......don't throw all trainers under the bus Mr Shannon.

Ive seen mention about getting boards  bookies here . Not sure it could happen , you need a number to make a market fun and raft of regulation.  Shopping along the lines., fighting through crowds  on a big day. Watching the 'faces'  and who they backing. Id  go with my Dad and good mate from football days at school regularly years back , if we backed  same one it was a source of pride if you got a 7/2 rather than 100/30,  a little difference but I know the jungle better than me mate.. It's a battle bookie v punter , to the punter it's individual them v me , to the bookie he plays out that individual battle many times over each race with all the individual punters. It's a jungle , it's bloody good fun. I know better than that bookie, he's overpriced that one , that's value , he's mine. Hahaha bookie normally has last laugh , it's real good , could we get it here, I doubt it now but it would be awesome , it's a family business ,handed down  hard to retrieve.

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Why on earth Peters got sucked in by an Aussie bean counter is beyond me.Closure of courses has been on the agenda for at least 30 years. Kumara was a prime case. Was meant to close but committee cunningly invited Muldoon down for  Nuggets day and lo and behold closure cancelled. Now the Arab proposes it again and suggests that the courses meekly hand over their property on some idiotic basis which would need an amendment to the Public Works Act given the likely resistance, to designate, offer, negotiate, reach agreement or have litigation to conclude matters. I think I would need to take out my practising certificate again because it will be a lawyers gold mine.

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1 hour ago, hedley said:

How much does NZTR and the R.B. give to the upkeep of tracks and their  super structures?

 

i can't recall ever reading anywhere.. an actual amount., this is very important..i need a 'trainspotter' like Leggy  to hunt this out for me/us please . . .Cheers Champ :)

 

Starts with f and ends with 'all' Hedley.

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5 minutes ago, ridiculous said:

Good article .Why should we trust these suits that have continually stuffed up. We all have to remember they aren’t making land anymore and once it’s gone it’s gone forever. There’s no way small communities are going to roll over without a fight .This is NZ not Zimbabwe.

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Just now, puha said:

Good article .Why should we trust these suits that have continually stuffed up. We all have to remember they aren’t making land anymore and once it’s gone it’s gone forever. There’s no way small communities are going to roll over without a fight .This is NZ not Zimbabwe.

It's starting to look more like Zimbabwe though, unbelievable really. Shame on those that proposed this. I actually thought better of them.

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6 minutes ago, Leggy said:

It's starting to look more like Zimbabwe though, unbelievable really. Shame on those that proposed this. I actually thought better of them.

Some serious talk coming out of the South Leggy, and once everyone appreciates the ramifications of this, more will follow.

https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/racing/racing-clubs-vow-fight

This whole thing will take years to resolve, there will be protracted legal battles, and we might have a new Government by then, so odds on this going through must be lengthening by the day.

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2 minutes ago, ridiculous said:

What is it you are in fact fighting for?  Is it the memories of a bygone era, when racing was the only form of entertainment and/or gambling in this country.  It is clear from the discussion on this thread that many clubs and participants are happy to take the industry to the edge of collapse and possibly beyond to save these memories from the 60's and 70's.  These clubs want their last actions on this earth to be the total annihilation of the the racing industry in NZ, so they can keep a track open that is a shadow of its former glory and in may cases in total disrepair.  What happens in 10-20 years when the 30 or so members of each of these clubs making this last stand are dead and buried and the industry is also gone.  Will people remember them as visionaries, forward thinkers who loved our great game.   .....or will they be remembered as sad remnants of a bygone era that put the final nail in the coffin at the last opportunity they had to save the industry.  It is sad to see the self interest that is driving the thinking of many who cant bear to let go of the last remnants of control or power they have.  You should be ashamed

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