RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Mattski

Messara Racing Review Full Report and 17 Key points

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Talking to some well connected Aussies about this and this was one response...

"Daylight robbery," highway robbery or pick your pocket. A typical method used by the controlling body to gain complete power over factions within the body is to hire an independent consultant who's results ratify what the controlling body want, {"While our board has yet to consider the report in detail, the major recommendations are in line with NZTR's views and it is reassuring to have those policies verified by an independent and expert voice",} then present the findings to the powers that be, Government, as gospel to amend the law, thus removing any disapproving voices or opposition to attain their target. 
At first my take was for a few individual country bush clubs to close & revert to community use,"sorry has to happen," however page 66 of the Messara report indicates this could possibly be a surreptitious grab for valuable land & assets owned by the individual Race Clubs. 
Once the recommendations have been legitimised & rubber stamped by the Minister, NZTR will then do as they please, when they want with the acquired land & assets, more than likely converting them into cash on the promise of using some of the cash for raising stake money of races. I would then guess money would be spent on infrastructure at the principal clubs. - Centralised power can breed contempt for those on the periphery that have little, with them withering on the vine while the more powerful clubs continue to suckle on the teat of milk & honey. - 
Without knowing what the other recommendations are, it seems to me NZTR want things to happen quickly at the expense of the less fortunate when they should be taking baby steps instead of long strides. By all means alter the system but it would be self-destructive & sad to destroy what has been built up over a 100 years or more by selling off land & assets to the tune of what is 100's of millions of dollars to get the solutions: borrow against those assets from the banks or Government, but if NZTR needs that sort of money to survive then you're really in the crapper with no choice but to sell off."

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IF (and not happened, yet) N.Z.R.B. assumes ownership of courses, why would it not fund all-weather tracks from proceeds rather than the government? If the general public resents government investment in racing, not likely to be a popular move if the board gets its way.

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Leggy, I hope you are proved correct with this   "It would be a heist alright if they can pull it off. I doubt it though and it will certainly take years if it happens and the clubs will then just walk away and de-register so they are not bound by the Act."

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16 minutes ago, Phar Lap Fan said:

IF (and not happened, yet) N.Z.R.B. assumes ownership of courses, why would it not fund all-weather tracks from proceeds rather than the government? If the general public resents government investment in racing, not likely to be a popular move if the board gets its way.

NZTR assume ownership I think not NZRB who also may not be around to assume ownership of anything in the future.

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1 hour ago, Phar Lap Fan said:

Huey - made a point but will you make a difference focusing on trivialities? Serving the same product will not revive racing in N.Z.

No absolutely not, but closing down courses in the manner in which they are proposing to isn't a great way of doing things either.

#doublestakesyeahright

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We've all had a few days to reflect on this and it just looks more and more remarkable to me. Blind leading the blind.

They call John Key "the smiling assassin"? Hello, it's Winston.

If anyone else had called in an Aussie who gives recommendations to flog off half our venues in the greatest land grab since the treaty of Waitangi while suggesting giving the keys to the till to the Aussie TABCorp - this report would go down like a ton of bricks.

Would we take the ride if it was someone from the green party standing up with this exact same message?

For example, Gareth Hughes says we are going to cut the number of venues in half, and give up the huge amount of intellectual capital that's gone into the Kiwi IT and infrastructure side of things, the jobs there, and let the show be run from Aussie.  

Same message, different messenger.

It could be a masterstroke from Labour greens. Get Mr Trusted to sell them the worst deal ever and they'll buy it. 

For the short term Winston just needs next election's votes.
Will he even run in the next election?

Perhaps WP doesn't even know he's the fall guy. There could be some other political trade off?? NZfirst done very well so far.

It peeves me no end the NZRB corporate bureaucracy and there is stupid money lost there but as much as you will no doubt disagree, I think John Allen did put losses on the forecast before they happened, with a plan to lift the financial nose pretty much about right now. Instead of being patient a bit longer and sticking to the plan, and then deciding once we really know if it's worked as planned, we are jumping the gun just before payday and a nasty little bait-and-switch is going on, and we're all going to get stiffed instead, and racing will end up with no choice next time around. 

Too much wagered on a dark horse with this report he needs to hear from the provinces where our tracks and clubs actually are that he's talking about closing down, because that's where the heart of racing is, not Melboune or Petone

No point writing a letter here send it to Winston and National now not later

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I HAVE A MASSIVE IDEA AROUND THESE ONCE A YEAR CLUBS WHO RACE AROUND THE XMAS/NY PERIOD WHO ARE GETTING CLOSED FOR ALSORTS OF REASONS WITH THIS REPORT THAT COME OUT THURSDAY.

WHO HAVE ALL READY MADE NOISE THAT THEY DON'T WON'T CLOSED AND SOME OF THESE CLUBS HAVE VERY LONG AND PROUD HISTORY SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THERE POINT OF THINGS  BUT NEW ZEALAND NEEDS TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR RACING GOING FOWARD AND HAVING 48 TRACKS IS SIMPLY NOT ONE OF THEM.

TO GO AND COPY SOMTHING ALONG THE LINES OF THE PICNIC RACING IN AUSTRALIA. IT MIGHT NOT BE WHAT THE CLUBS WON'T BUT AT LEAST THEY STILL GET TO KEEP THERE RACING CLUBS GOING AND I AM SURE TRAINERS WILL SUPPORT THIS IDEA BECAUSE NOT EVERY HORSE CAN WIN A BIG RACE AND MIGHT EVAN KEEP SOME HORSES RACING LONGER WHO NOS WHAT'S AROUND THE CORNER ALL I NO IS THAT SOMTHING NEEDS TO COME OF THE REPORT.

Edited by Allovertheform
There was an issue with the spelling

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What are the chances of this legislation getting though. Land confiscation act basically . Surely this is  going  to spark huge parliamentary debate considering precedents . If say NZ footy codes get strapped for cash can they take the local kids field and turn it into luxury flats when they want with no compo by pushing though a similar act.I suppose it's how much individual MPs tow partly line and vote as instructed. Surely National MPs would be against it , greens are against government walking over people's rights are they not ? 

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According to Google News NZ First held a meeting at the Tauranga club on Wednesday for those who are racing donors and obviously party donors..Chitty,Ellis,Schick,Bax,Lindsay and Taylor were all present at the $600 dollars a head dinner.

From that list you can assume they are all for it.

I stayed home and had my $6 dollar meal deal but kept a lot better company.

 

 

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1 minute ago, crustyngrizzly said:

According to Google News NZ First held a meeting at the Tauranga club on Wednesday for those who are racing donors and obviously party donors..Chitty,Ellis,Schick,Bax,Lindsay and Taylor were all present at the $600 dollars a head dinner.

From that list you can assume they are all for it.

I stayed home and had my $6 dollar meal deal but kept a lot better company.

 

 

Three guesses what that lot have in common...?:rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, porky said:

Had a mate up from the South Island for the Tarzino, over a few beers he agreed, things need to change...and when looking at the cull list, he also mentioned duel code race-courses that could be saved to stop long travel times...  and the obvious ones for the chop (eg.Waipukarau) where there are too many courses (as sad as it may be) they will need to be ruthless and rustle a few feathers i suppose e.g Ellerslie V Avondale. 

Expect they are (or should be) basing changes on location, population and local trainers operating there, / dual-tri code viability, and finally financial return possibility to racing.

 

BUT WHEN THE JOB IS SEEN TO HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED AND THE POOR RURAL RACE-GOER ROBBED OF THEIR FIX, AND STAKES DOUBLED  SHORT TERM, FROM THE PROCEEDS OF SALES, AND WINSTON RETIRES A HAPPY MAN...WHATS THE LONG TERM PLAN MR ACCOUNTANT?...(NO SILVERWARE LEFT IN THE CUPBOARD.)

GET SOME BUMS ON SEATS AT THE RACES AND MAKE IT A FUN DAY OUT...YESTERDAY WAS A GOOD DAY...WELL DONE HASTINGS.

  

I'd be very surprised if any of the tracks that are to be closed aren't financially self sustainable , so what they are saying is we can't keep those ones open because the way we have structured racing in NZ they need to be sold to keep the ones open that have had to have financial input into them to already stay open not to mention the best of dates etc.

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2 hours ago, Allovertheform said:

I HAVE A MASSIVE IDEA AROUND THESE ONCE A YEAR CLUBS WHO RACE AROUND THE XMAS/NY PERIOD WHO ARE GETTING CLOSED FOR ALSORTS OF REASONS WITH THIS REPORT THAT COME OUT THURSDAY.

WHO HAVE ALL READY MADE NOISE THAT THEY DON'T WON'T CLOSED AND SOME OF THESE CLUBS HAVE VERY LONG AND PROUD HISTORY SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THERE POINT OF THINGS  BUT NEW ZEALAND NEEDS TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR RACING GOING FOWARD AND HAVING 48 TRACKS IS SIMPLY NOT ONE OF THEM.

TO GO AND COPY SOMTHING ALONG THE LINES OF THE PICNIC RACING IN AUSTRALIA. IT MIGHT NOT BE WHAT THE CLUBS WON'T BUT AT LEAST THEY STILL GET TO KEEP THERE RACING CLUBS GOING AND I AM SURE TRAINERS WILL SUPPORT THIS IDEA BECAUSE NOT EVERY HORSE CAN WIN A BIG RACE AND MIGHT EVAN KEEP SOME HORSES RACING LONGER WHO NOS WHAT'S AROUND THE CORNER ALL I NO IS THAT SOMTHING NEEDS TO COME OF THE REPORT.

Mrs Cubes wants to see this post b4 IT GOT EDITed .

But she agrees.....though AOTF your plan is depenDant on attracting stake money for owners maybe , cause they won't be getting it from NZRB/NZTR .

Oh , and at the same time someone appears to be trying to nick your track .

 

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2 hours ago, Allovertheform said:

I HAVE A MASSIVE IDEA AROUND THESE ONCE A YEAR CLUBS WHO RACE AROUND THE XMAS/NY PERIOD WHO ARE GETTING CLOSED FOR ALSORTS OF REASONS WITH THIS REPORT THAT COME OUT THURSDAY.

WHO HAVE ALL READY MADE NOISE THAT THEY DON'T WON'T CLOSED AND SOME OF THESE CLUBS HAVE VERY LONG AND PROUD HISTORY SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THERE POINT OF THINGS  BUT NEW ZEALAND NEEDS TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR RACING GOING FOWARD AND HAVING 48 TRACKS IS SIMPLY NOT ONE OF THEM.

TO GO AND COPY SOMTHING ALONG THE LINES OF THE PICNIC RACING IN AUSTRALIA. IT MIGHT NOT BE WHAT THE CLUBS WON'T BUT AT LEAST THEY STILL GET TO KEEP THERE RACING CLUBS GOING AND I AM SURE TRAINERS WILL SUPPORT THIS IDEA BECAUSE NOT EVERY HORSE CAN WIN A BIG RACE AND MIGHT EVAN KEEP SOME HORSES RACING LONGER WHO NOS WHAT'S AROUND THE CORNER ALL I NO IS THAT SOMTHING NEEDS TO COME OF THE REPORT.

Still is mate....and NO NEED TO SHOUT.......:rolleyes:

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$600 a head and a sneak preview from Winston on Wednesday night .

Ex stuff , $600 a head for their dinner. Many were from the world of breeding and racing: Te Akau Stud's David and Karyn Fenton-Ellis, Blandford Farm's Graham Bax, Brendan and Jo Lindsay of Lindsay Racing, and Mark Chitty of Haunui Farms. Peters had good news for them: he had delivered everything he promised. Not just one all-weather racecourse but three, not just tax breaks in the Budget; the very next day he would be announcing plans to restructure the NZ Racing Board. 

He did not discuss details but he boasted of his restructuring plans to his wealthy donors, even before he'd disclosed them to the Racing Board itself.

The following evening at Claudelands Events Centre in Hamilton, Peters unveiled the proposed restructuring: slashing the numbers of small courses from 48 to 28 .

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On 9/1/2018 at 1:31 PM, poundforpound said:

So a very learned person, with a great brain, calls me and said “go read p66, the last two paragraphs, of the Messara report”.

So I did......this is a fucking amazing bit of chicanery and involves the appropriation by way of legislative change, of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of assets and real estate, then transferring those assets into the control of a NZTR !!

NZTR, OMG, they are so woefully inept at virtually everything they attempt, and here they’re going to take over what’ll be in excess of a billion dollars worth of industry assets.

For example, Ellerslie now has to hand over their land, that’s about 500 million in real estate, plus all their cash reserves, that’s currentky 50 million to the ownership of NZTR, add in Te Rapa, 50 hectares at say 5-7 million a hectare.....add in Avondale ( subject to zoning changes, another 200 million there ). and this is the greatest theft of all time, and the likes of MIA / PAM Jackson will now control ALL the industries assets.!!!

Here’s the clause, and it’s repeated twice, from p66 of the report..

As usual the brain dead fucking idiots have been raped here, and yet again Racing is getting what it deserves.

 

So, we believe it will be absolutely essential to the successful future of the New Zealand thoroughbred racing industry that the Racing Act 2003, and any other relevant legislation, be amended to provide unambiguously for the transfer to NZTR of title to all thoroughbred racecourses and training facilities currently owned freehold by Race Clubs and also ownership of all net assets. The amendments should expressly include provisions providing NZTR with the right to close a venue and sell the freehold land owned by a Race Club/s in circumstances where NZTR determines in its sole discretion not to issue licences to any Club/s to race at that venue, or in the case the dissolution of a Race Club. There should also be a requirement that NZTR invests the

Don’t get over excited there PFP, there is no legal precedent where an incorporated society with a defined constitution (club) that describes what is to be concluded should liquidation of that Society (club) [if it happens] occur. The actual outcome is defined in the constitution of the club, it does not automatically transfer or delivers the proceeds of that sale to a leasing licence provider.

Put simply, you own your mobile phone, if you sell it, do you give the proceeds to Vodafone, Spark, 2 Degrees or whichever provider you use. Of course not.

As far as I am aware, the sitting Govt would have the devils own job of trying to take ownership of the any land and then selling it to gain the proceeds. That is according to NZRB’s own lawyers report, Bell Gully, completed some years ago. Your mate Stiassny explored that possibility and was advised to go no further.

NZTR tried a manoeuvre a couple of years back with clubs to change their constitutions to gain this same outcome, I am not sure what the success rate was for NZTR, but poor outlook for the clubs that did accept that constitutional amendment.

There will be a protracted outcome to some of the reduction of courses, in saying that I believe we have to accept the report for what it is, reality.......................

I hope there is someone to be appointed who can manage the plan and gain the outcome desired.  

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2 hours ago, Leggy said:

A starting point for what? Nicking the assets of the clubs which have best managed those?

No I mean for discussion if we as an industry dont agree dont sit back and sulk do something about it as a group as a united front...if you dont agree with the report lets all come up with something else that works or take action strike do anything but lets not whinge and whine in here we all need to get together and do whats BEST FOR EVERYONE not just a few.

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24 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

No I mean for discussion if we as an industry dont agree dont sit back and sulk do something about it as a group as a united front...if you dont agree with the report lets all come up with something else that works or take action strike do anything but lets not whinge and whine in here we all need to get together and do whats BEST FOR EVERYONE not just a few.

Exactly!.....and quickly!!! This is our last chance at Government level to make positive change whatever we decide as a group for the better of all in this industry.  Ive not seen any politician in the past 50 years give this much attention to the racing game as Sir Winston Peters. Expect it to be another 100 years before this happens again. Not that any of us will be here to worry but will the racing industry?.....your choice!

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9 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Exactly!.....and quickly!!! This is our last chance at Government level to make positive change whatever we decide as a group for the better of all in this industry.  Ive not seen any politician in the past 50 years give this much attention to the racing game as Sir Winston Peters. Expect it to be another 100 years before this happens again. Not that any of us will be here to worry but will the racing industry?.....your choice!

Yep fair call but you don’t shit on your brothers . 

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13 minutes ago, puha said:

Yep fair call but you don’t shit on your brothers . 

Agree!.... but the brothers need to stick together like shit, come up with a smart positive alternative and make a choice before the industry is left with a big pile of ....:rcf-poo:!

1. Can't we sell just 49% of the TAB
2. Close NZRB & NZTR ? :rcf-cool: Save Millions!

Personally I think we could all run the industry from Race Cafe at half the cost and do a better job. :rcfe-like:

Lets start a Race Cafe committee!....NZRC :rcf-laughing-2:

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10 , Introduce Race Field and Point Of Consumption Tax legislation expeditiously. These two measures will bring New Zealand’s racing industry into line with its Australian counterparts and provide much needed additional revenue.

So is this (10) an endorsement of the racing boards race fields legislation that's been held up (or abandoned) while waiting for this report , according to the racing board it was going to be a very big contributor to the racing industry . If this is that plan then clearly Messara thinks it will work , perhaps that's all that's really needed , the rest could be just breeders/big clubs taking advantage of the current situation to advance their own causes .

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Why doesn't NZTR  just take the assetts of all clubs and manage them like a big Fonterra type company for the "Industry".

HRNZ could do the same. Also Greyhounds.

Could even float with members of clubs getting preferential share entitlements

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