crustyngrizzly 1,700 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 Has the gentleman who paid for a full page advert urging Racing people to vote for Winnie,been heard from? gary1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,831 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, poundforpound said: Anyone who supports the closure of Avondale rather than say Counties is a Racing ignoramus, they have no sense of horse welfare, and they’re a danger to themselves and the code. Such persons should never have a significant role in racing Agree with you. The problem there is valuations between $100m and $300m depending on what zoning they come up with. Messara's whole case revolves to a large extent on the acquisition ( by stealth or otherwise ) of Club assets...numbers don't work without it. dock leaf and Huey 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiknsmack 486 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 38 minutes ago, Gofta said: To keep Avondale you would need to blow up the stands and pour 50 million into building new facilities. I would rather sell it and take the $200million. Its called business. Its thinking like yours that got us into this predicament There is no $200million though, unless stealing land from a community group and selling it to developers is a viable strategy. It's greenbelt land, so can't be developed. Maybe you can force through multiple law changes at local and central level to change that. It belongs to a club who say they are part of the racing industry and the West Auckland community. They have pledged that, if they are kicked out of the racing industry, they're going to give their assets to the West Auckland community. Maybe you can figure out a way to coerce/force them into changing their mind. Ellerslie has a far inferior surface, where horses can end up knee deep in old stormwater drains during the running of a race. It's also far more valuable to developers than Avondale. So sell Ellerslie, put in a plastic track at Avondale, run meetings on the plastic track every Tuesday morning and Friday night (or whenever else suits for simulcasting vision into export markets; part of the appeal of plastic tracks is you can have the same horses running on the same track every week, giving you consistent form and therefore good betting a la Hong Kong). Put in a Strathyr at Avondale too, and in addition to the 50 or 100 meetings a year on the plastic you can have 40+ meetings a year on an outstanding turf surface. Take the rest of the Ellerslie proceeds, plus some money from the Regional Fund, plus some transport funding from central government, plus the proceeds from selling Trentham, and put them all into building Transmission Gully, including a bullet train that gets you from Wellington to Levin in 15 minutes. Then build a massive new setup near Levin with a 50m wide grass track with a straight mile, plus a whole bunch of training facilities for dozens of trainers and thousands of horses, and another plastic track. There's another 50 or 100 plastic track meetings per year, plus another 40 or 50 on the turf. The government get affordable housing by moving half the population of Wellington out of the (earthquake-prone) city and to the new 350,000 population city of Levin. They also get to spend money on trains, which they like. Winston gets some massive legacy project he can point to for the rest of his life and say "I did that". The racing industry gets to centralise a large chunk of the horse population at a location with state of the art training and racing (and broadcasting) facilities. Owners get reduced costs, thanks to being able to have their horses both trained and raced at the megatrack at Levin (no more transport from Cambridge to Ruakaka). The industry as a whole get reduced costs that come from scale and centralisation. Do the same thing with the Waikato Greenfields idea; massive track, training facilities for thousands of horses, bullet train from Auckland, mass Kiwibuild housing. Also, levies on exported horses and stud fees, as well as on offshore bookies offering betting on NZ races, will bring in more revenue. These should be the absolute first moves taken, before any rationalisation. Ideally, NZTR would put a 5% levy on all stud fees before the breeding season starts tomorrow. Though NZTR moving quickly is probably the most pie in the sky idea in this whole post. Nearco, dock leaf, gubellini and 3 others 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Zip 468 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 Now, there's a plan!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 You just knew that "One Racing" hadn't gone away..here it is under much disguise..One Racing well done Winston and the rest of the masons Huey, puha and JETSUN 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, chiknsmack said: There is no $200million though, unless stealing land from a community group and selling it to developers is a viable strategy. It's greenbelt land, so can't be developed. Maybe you can force through multiple law changes at local and central level to change that. It belongs to a club who say they are part of the racing industry and the West Auckland community. They have pledged that, if they are kicked out of the racing industry, they're going to give their assets to the West Auckland community. Maybe you can figure out a way to coerce/force them into changing their mind. Ellerslie has a far inferior surface, where horses can end up knee deep in old stormwater drains during the running of a race. It's also far more valuable to developers than Avondale. So sell Ellerslie, put in a plastic track at Avondale, run meetings on the plastic track every Tuesday morning and Friday night (or whenever else suits for simulcasting vision into export markets; part of the appeal of plastic tracks is you can have the same horses running on the same track every week, giving you consistent form and therefore good betting a la Hong Kong). Put in a Strathyr at Avondale too, and in addition to the 50 or 100 meetings a year on the plastic you can have 40+ meetings a year on an outstanding turf surface. Take the rest of the Ellerslie proceeds, plus some money from the Regional Fund, plus some transport funding from central government, plus the proceeds from selling Trentham, and put them all into building Transmission Gully, including a bullet train that gets you from Wellington to Levin in 15 minutes. Then build a massive new setup near Levin with a 50m wide grass track with a straight mile, plus a whole bunch of training facilities for dozens of trainers and thousands of horses, and another plastic track. There's another 50 or 100 plastic track meetings per year, plus another 40 or 50 on the turf. The government get affordable housing by moving half the population of Wellington out of the (earthquake-prone) city and to the new 350,000 population city of Levin. They also get to spend money on trains, which they like. Winston gets some massive legacy project he can point to for the rest of his life and say "I did that". The racing industry gets to centralise a large chunk of the horse population at a location with state of the art training and racing (and broadcasting) facilities. Owners get reduced costs, thanks to being able to have their horses both trained and raced at the megatrack at Levin (no more transport from Cambridge to Ruakaka). The industry as a whole get reduced costs that come from scale and centralisation. Do the same thing with the Waikato Greenfields idea; massive track, training facilities for thousands of horses, bullet train from Auckland, mass Kiwibuild housing. Also, levies on exported horses and stud fees, as well as on offshore bookies offering betting on NZ races, will bring in more revenue. These should be the absolute first moves taken, before any rationalisation. Ideally, NZTR would put a 5% levy on all stud fees before the breeding season starts tomorrow. Though NZTR moving quickly is probably the most pie in the sky idea in this whole post. Holy shit that's a plan, I think it could all come off but I think a 1 per cent type levy on stud fees and exported horses is shooting at the moon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattski 176 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 Sorry I am a bit out of touch. Heard and read about this in the Messera report but know nothing about it. Could someone fill me in thanks. Cheers, Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,878 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Gofta said: To keep Avondale you would need to blow up the stands and pour 50 million into building new facilities. I would rather sell it and take the $200million. Its called business. Its thinking like yours that got us into this predicament Gofta what thinking is that, Counties is a shit track a spit of rain its a bog, Avondale is a great surface those are facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissJools 498 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 Does anyone know what tracs will be closed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,831 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 28 minutes ago, MissJools said: Does anyone know what tracs will be closed? How about looking up the page...?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,831 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, chiknsmack said: There is no $200million though, unless stealing land from a community group and selling it to developers is a viable strategy. It's greenbelt land, so can't be developed. Maybe you can force through multiple law changes at local and central level to change that. It belongs to a club who say they are part of the racing industry and the West Auckland community. They have pledged that, if they are kicked out of the racing industry, they're going to give their assets to the West Auckland community. Maybe you can figure out a way to coerce/force them into changing their mind. Ellerslie has a far inferior surface, where horses can end up knee deep in old stormwater drains during the running of a race. It's also far more valuable to developers than Avondale. So sell Ellerslie, put in a plastic track at Avondale, run meetings on the plastic track every Tuesday morning and Friday night (or whenever else suits for simulcasting vision into export markets; part of the appeal of plastic tracks is you can have the same horses running on the same track every week, giving you consistent form and therefore good betting a la Hong Kong). Put in a Strathyr at Avondale too, and in addition to the 50 or 100 meetings a year on the plastic you can have 40+ meetings a year on an outstanding turf surface. Take the rest of the Ellerslie proceeds, plus some money from the Regional Fund, plus some transport funding from central government, plus the proceeds from selling Trentham, and put them all into building Transmission Gully, including a bullet train that gets you from Wellington to Levin in 15 minutes. Then build a massive new setup near Levin with a 50m wide grass track with a straight mile, plus a whole bunch of training facilities for dozens of trainers and thousands of horses, and another plastic track. There's another 50 or 100 plastic track meetings per year, plus another 40 or 50 on the turf. The government get affordable housing by moving half the population of Wellington out of the (earthquake-prone) city and to the new 350,000 population city of Levin. They also get to spend money on trains, which they like. Winston gets some massive legacy project he can point to for the rest of his life and say "I did that". The racing industry gets to centralise a large chunk of the horse population at a location with state of the art training and racing (and broadcasting) facilities. Owners get reduced costs, thanks to being able to have their horses both trained and raced at the megatrack at Levin (no more transport from Cambridge to Ruakaka). The industry as a whole get reduced costs that come from scale and centralisation. Do the same thing with the Waikato Greenfields idea; massive track, training facilities for thousands of horses, bullet train from Auckland, mass Kiwibuild housing. Also, levies on exported horses and stud fees, as well as on offshore bookies offering betting on NZ races, will bring in more revenue. These should be the absolute first moves taken, before any rationalisation. Ideally, NZTR would put a 5% levy on all stud fees before the breeding season starts tomorrow. Though NZTR moving quickly is probably the most pie in the sky idea in this whole post. Some interesting thoughts...but "a bullet train to Levin" ?? Apart from logistics and astronomical cost, I doubt any of us would see it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,831 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, chiknsmack said: There is no $200million though, unless stealing land from a community group and selling it to developers is a viable strategy. It's greenbelt land, so can't be developed. Maybe you can force through multiple law changes at local and central level to change that. It belongs to a club who say they are part of the racing industry and the West Auckland community. They have pledged that, if they are kicked out of the racing industry, they're going to give their assets to the West Auckland community. Maybe you can figure out a way to coerce/force them into changing their mind. Ellerslie has a far inferior surface, where horses can end up knee deep in old stormwater drains during the running of a race. It's also far more valuable to developers than Avondale. So sell Ellerslie, put in a plastic track at Avondale, run meetings on the plastic track every Tuesday morning and Friday night (or whenever else suits for simulcasting vision into export markets; part of the appeal of plastic tracks is you can have the same horses running on the same track every week, giving you consistent form and therefore good betting a la Hong Kong). Put in a Strathyr at Avondale too, and in addition to the 50 or 100 meetings a year on the plastic you can have 40+ meetings a year on an outstanding turf surface. Take the rest of the Ellerslie proceeds, plus some money from the Regional Fund, plus some transport funding from central government, plus the proceeds from selling Trentham, and put them all into building Transmission Gully, including a bullet train that gets you from Wellington to Levin in 15 minutes. Then build a massive new setup near Levin with a 50m wide grass track with a straight mile, plus a whole bunch of training facilities for dozens of trainers and thousands of horses, and another plastic track. There's another 50 or 100 plastic track meetings per year, plus another 40 or 50 on the turf. The government get affordable housing by moving half the population of Wellington out of the (earthquake-prone) city and to the new 350,000 population city of Levin. They also get to spend money on trains, which they like. Winston gets some massive legacy project he can point to for the rest of his life and say "I did that". The racing industry gets to centralise a large chunk of the horse population at a location with state of the art training and racing (and broadcasting) facilities. Owners get reduced costs, thanks to being able to have their horses both trained and raced at the megatrack at Levin (no more transport from Cambridge to Ruakaka). The industry as a whole get reduced costs that come from scale and centralisation. Do the same thing with the Waikato Greenfields idea; massive track, training facilities for thousands of horses, bullet train from Auckland, mass Kiwibuild housing. Also, levies on exported horses and stud fees, as well as on offshore bookies offering betting on NZ races, will bring in more revenue. These should be the absolute first moves taken, before any rationalisation. Ideally, NZTR would put a 5% levy on all stud fees before the breeding season starts tomorrow. Though NZTR moving quickly is probably the most pie in the sky idea in this whole post. They will certainly have a go at these numbers Chik.... "Re the sale of freehold land of racecourses that are to be closed, 16 of the initial 20 racecourses to be closed are freehold or part freehold. The rateable land value of the initial 16 courses to be closed (that is excluding Te Rapa, Te Awamutu and Cambridge which will not be closed before the proposed Waikato Greenfields Project is completed) is about $29 million based on current zoning, with Avondale accounting for $14.5 million of this. As noted earlier, the commercial value of some of these racecourses could be 5 to 10 times or more their rateable land value with new zoning. A case in point is Avondale for which we have received a preliminary conservative valuation of about $100 million from a real estate company plus valuation indications from property developers and people in the racing industry of up to $200 million or more with the best zoning. For the 16 venues to be closed initially we believe that the realisable value may fall between $150 million and $300 million. " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Zip 468 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: Some interesting thoughts...but "a bullet train to Levin" ?? Apart from logistics and astronomical cost, I doubt any of us would see it... Now a bullet train to Petone could be apt....don't you think?......think about it , it'll come to you.....what do you need to put down an injured, terminal animal.....I rest my case. Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro fan 93 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, crustyngrizzly said: Racing may not be the only sport in the poo.St Andrews golf course in Waimate up for sale. It is in the Waimate District but actually is closer to Timaru...... crustyngrizzly 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro fan 93 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 7 hours ago, Dibbles said: Just a question was the land around Riccarton not in a trust that was not meant to be sold, look at it now all under development for housing? Seems to be that if all parties agree there is a way around selling the land. That was to do with the Canterbury quake re-build - legislation had to be changed to enable that to happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomy 971 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 It wasn't that many moons ago that they had lights for Night racing at Avondale racecourse, was it? Will will see a history of regret with having all weather tracks and subsequently ripping them up as the weather will do what the wesather does as it has a mind of it's own. Has anyone bothered to ask those in the wider community how they feel with potential loss of community social ocassions in primarly rural regions where they in fact have access to horses that spur an interest in the racing industry? Or is it a case of ask less than 1,000 people like they did with our Free to Air Freeview TV coverage and kicking those at grass roots in the guts again? It can't be that far away and the likes of John Allan's contract will be over and done with and yet anoither mess wilkl be left for others to pick up the pieces Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Gofta said: To keep Avondale you would need to blow up the stands and pour 50 million into building new facilities. I would rather sell it and take the $200million. Its called business. Its thinking like yours that got us into this predicament I'd rather sell Ellerslie and reinvest the proceeds in infrastructure at Avondale. It's called business and it's thinking like yours that got us into this predicament. Huey, dock leaf, hedley and 1 other 2 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomy 971 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 In the interests of transparencey and acting within the Integrity of racing, how much was paid for this Report? Who chose to have a male to undertake it? With all due respect to the person who wroite it, would it have been different and included looking at the wider pictire of the impact on the wider communities social inclusion if it had been written by a woman? Or had input from a woman's perspective, after all women also have an equally important role to play in society. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomy 971 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 Best not to sell off anyone's family silver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro fan 93 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 8 hours ago, Ohokaman said: In case any of you haven't read the report in full, here it is. https://www.dia.govt.nz/vwluResources/Racing-Report-August-2018/$file/Review-of-the-NZ-Racing-Industry-Report.pdf Needs digesting before commenting further as there are a number of "Fark me" moments.. The reduction of tracks has so many hooks in it from an ownership/ governance perspective. The subtle dig regarding appropriate qualifications for Board members is not missed. Will affect new appointments. I had one of those moments when I read about Timaru being closed as a racing AND training facility as it had no infrastructure. It has a sand, plough, jumps area, and course proper and supported 300 horses a week in training back in racings hey day. It is also a great winter track which Canterbury and Otago/Southland trainers alike supported. Provided a jumping venue and a plan b for Riccarton at different times......... We're Doomed, gary1, napier and 3 others 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie85 94 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Ohokaman said: From the report : In this regard we have noted with interest the developments at Riccarton Park since 2015. As we understand it, 38 hectares of Christchurch Racecourse Reserve land at Riccarton Park was converted to freehold land in the name of the Trustees, that is for the benefit the Canterbury JC, and was able to be sold for the development of 600 residential units provided 180 of them fitted within the definition of “affordable housing”. The land sale proceeds were $16 million, and these monies are being invested by the Trustees in order to pay Canterbury JC an annuity to assist with their capital and operating expenditures. This initiative was promoted by the then Minister for Building and Housing and the Christchurch City Council. To make this happen a Riccarton Racecourse Enabling Act was passed by the New Zealand Government and a Riccarton Racecourse Local Act was passed by the Christchurch City Council. The development is now underway. One good thing came out of this report and that is that the $'s CJC/Reserve Trustees received is now in the OPEN This has been kept secret using Confidentiality and Commercial Reasons but now we can all see it was from EMBARRASEMENT at how they got "screwed" The word was that the sale would be generate$30-40 million for CJC/Reserve Trustees and by doing so secure Racing for Canterbury into the future Do the MATHS $16mil divide by 600 Sections = $26,666 per section. Ngai Tahu are currently selling 218m2 sections @ $178,000 - 500m2 $270,000 Will $16mil invested at 3-4% do much for racing. And we have these people taking us into the future !!!!! Nearco, dock leaf, Huey and 2 others 4 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,547 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, newbie85 said: One good thing came out of this report and that is that the $'s CJC/Reserve Trustees received is now in the OPEN This has been kept secret using Confidentiality and Commercial Reasons but now we can all see it was from EMBARRASEMENT at how they got "screwed" The word was that the sale would be generate$30-40 million for CJC/Reserve Trustees and by doing so secure Racing for Canterbury into the future Do the MATHS $16mil divide by 600 Sections = $26,666 per section. Ngai Tahu are currently selling 218m2 sections @ $178,000 - 500m2 $270,000 Will $16mil invested at 3-4% do much for racing. And we have these people taking us into the future !!!!! Ah, Ngai Tahu are shrewd operators....it was a given that they would walk over the Trustees without breaking a sweat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie85 94 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Pam Robson said: Ah, Ngai Tahu are shrewd operators....it was a given that they would walk over the Trustees without breaking a sweat. Sadly Pam the people on the Board of Trustees are either Past or Present members of the CJC Board so what hope do you have of Racing going somewhere in the FUTURE Insider 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,547 Report post Posted August 31, 2018 Don't depress me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...