Phantom 494 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, pakari said: They aren't outsourcing anything as i understand it. They're buying a platform from an overseas vendor which most do here including sportsbet, and getting the feeds from paddy power so they don't have to create and manage all their markets manually which will have benefit especially for live betting, shit they'd love live betting online here, they've been moaning about if for years. Section 7 of the recommendations made by Messara: 7. Begin negotiations for the outsourcing of the TAB’s commercial activities to an international wagering operator, to gain the significant advantages of scale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, La Zip said: If you need to ask that question then you will never understand the answer. I understand 3% of all turrnover is a reasonable amount, i also don't underestimate how much is wagered on the NZ product..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Zip 468 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Phantom said: Racing;'s overall popularity is at an all time low in NZ, it's now down to about 1%. You might be overestimating how much the TAB take on their fixed odds markets. They tend to over-react with any kind of a half decent bet (if they accept it) which doesn't suggest a massive turnover. All the overseas firms will offer NZ racing because it's easy, they just have to load the fields and prices and let their clients bet away. And the % the legislation is asking for is so low they may well be happy to pay it. I'm just saying the figures of $17-20 million which I have heard NZRB employees state as guaranteed returns from the legislation have no basis in fact whatsoever, and the actual return to the industry will be nothing like it. It's a myth, like Typhoon and Triple Trio. Absolutely....it's another Grimms fairytale, but I've said it before, there is none so dangerous as those that believe their own bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Zip 468 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 JM also tried to stress as did The Hon Winston, they have been borrowing against reserves, and that if you ask an investor is the most dangerous strategy on the planet.....they are a collective of fools, totally delusional, and they have been outed!!!! pakari and hedley 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom 494 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, La Zip said: Absolutely....it's another Grimms fairytale, but I've said it before, there is none so dangerous as those that believe their own bullshit. Right. Hughes and Allen don't know the answers or else they would be actually solving the problem instead of inventing the next El Dorado to keep them in their jobs for another year or two. The problem is they keep employing people who have no experience in the industry a la Hickton, Bayliss etc etc. Petone is full of Lawyers, Bankers and the latest is Postal Workers ffs. It's mind-boggling. Huey and hedley 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridiculous 14 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 So we just need to...Double the Stakes! Why did anyone else think of that? Now we just need more young people, More people opening new accounts, and not get creamed by the Aussie TAB as they screw down the race opportunities once we're trying to compete with Aussie meetings for screen time. What could possibly go wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Phantom said: Section 7 of the recommendations made by Messara: 7. Begin negotiations for the outsourcing of the TAB’s commercial activities to an international wagering operator, to gain the significant advantages of scale. I'm referring to your comment "They want to outsource their fixed odds product because they have no idea how to run a sports betting operation which they have proved time and again over the last 20 years. " I am aware of what Messara recommended Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom 494 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 Just now, pakari said: I'm referring to your comment "They want to outsource their fixed odds product because they have no idea how to run a sports betting operation which they have proved time and again over the last 20 years. " I am aware of what Messara recommended Yeah. And? What part don't you understand or agree with? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzy 143 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 After reading the largely ill informed and negative comments in this section about the Messara report i can only conclude that the industry is stuffed and we might as well close it down now and save ourselves another 10 years of stress and pointless arguments. Yes the report may not be correct in every aspect (what business plans are??) but the overall direction is spot on. i can only conclude that those of you who choose to bag it either have vested interests which colour your opinions or have no idea. bazach, Dwyn, Grego and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Phantom said: Yeah. And? What part don't you understand or agree with? The bit about the TAB outsourcing their existing sports betting operation cos they're not, they're buying a fixed odds platform and getting the data from paddy power Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom 494 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, pakari said: The bit about the TAB outsourcing their existing sports betting operation cos they're not, they're buying a fixed odds platform and getting the data from paddy power What data you think they are getting from Paddy Power? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Phantom said: What data you think they are getting from Paddy Power? They're buying a data feed like almost every other bookmaker in the world does mate, you think they all do it themselves?? They would still be managing the risk themselves so where is the outsourcing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom 494 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, pakari said: They're buying a data feed like almost every other bookmaker in the world does mate, you think they all do it themselves?? They would still be managing the risk themselves so where is the outsourcing? I've worked in the industry for 20 years for overseas firms and never heard of a "data feed". And how can you ask where is the outsourcing when the Messara report clearly recommends they "begin negotiations for the OUTSOURCING of the the TAB's commercial activities to an international wagering operator." La Zip 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,915 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, fitzy said: After reading the largely ill informed and negative comments in this section about the Messara report i can only conclude that the industry is stuffed and we might as well close it down now and save ourselves another 10 years of stress and pointless arguments. Yes the report may not be correct in every aspect (what business plans are??) but the overall direction is spot on. i can only conclude that those of you who choose to bag it either have vested interests which colour your opinions or have no idea. No... people are expressing opinions so you can do that to everyone is allowed a voice the INDUSTRY MUST get this right and we all need to work together...not fight. Phantom 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridiculous 14 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 Doubling stakes by handing over the till keys. Almost sounds too good to be true. But what if it doesn't pay when outsourced? Then what? What if we become the fat that later gets trimmed in order to keep those over the ditch going. Like that bit of a lizards tail that falls off if they ever get caught, to become a life-saving, sacrificial distraction.. We'd be a little fish in a big pond with the Aussies and there's no going back to the old pond that was fine just had too many predators at one end Better the devil you know. End of the battlers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Phantom said: I've worked in the industry for 20 years for overseas firms and never heard of a "data feed". And how can you ask where is the outsourcing when the Messara report clearly recommends they "begin negotiations for the OUTSOURCING of the the TAB's commercial activities to an international wagering operator." Like I said a few times now, I'm not referring to the Messara recommendation on outsourcing i'm referring to your comment where you said the NZRB want to outsource their fixed odds product. If you've worked in the industry for 20 years you would be well aware of companies such as Bet Radar and other B2B providers..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom 494 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, pakari said: Like I said a few times now, I'm not referring to the Messara recommendation on outsourcing i'm referring to your comment where you said the NZRB want to outsource their fixed odds product. If you've worked in the industry for 20 years you would be well aware of companies such as Bet Radar and other B2B providers..... Ok I can't see the difference between what we are talking about so I give up - let's wait and see exactly what the follow up from the report then we can debate the merits. Obviously I'm familiar with Radar et al but I don't understand what the TAB would get from PP? Scrape their prices? They already do that with another firm without paying for it so would seem a dumb move to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Phantom said: Ok I can't see the difference between what we are talking about so I give up - let's wait and see exactly what the follow up from the report then we can debate the merits. Obviously I'm familiar with Radar et al but I don't understand what the TAB would get from PP? Scrape their prices? They already do that with another firm without paying for it so would seem a dumb move to me. PP offer event management, pricing and resulting service as a B2B service, its what sportsbet use Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom 494 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, pakari said: PP offer event management, pricing and resulting service as a B2B service, its what sportsbet use Ok and if they are as you say managing their liabilities from petone, what do they need to outsource? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Phantom said: Ok and if they are as you say managing their liabilities from petone, what do they need to outsource? I never said thy were outsourcing anything, u did! I was trying to understand how by doing what most other sports books in the world do its outsourcing. Maybe if PP do it all then it is outsourced, don't see how you'd make money if they do it all tho? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Zip 468 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 Alan Jackson, what a joke, his quotes make for a comedy indeed,Denis Ryan referred to a buoyant mood, oh God, Alan, what were you thinking man, fancy a buoyant mood..if you are feeling buoyant what is floating your boat? the fact that racing is so low? the world is laughing? why would you feel so buoyant?.......what an embarrassing scenario? ...you just don't get it Mr do you? Time for a change? what a shame you didn't identify these problems before JM had to intervene?......it took outside forces to mainstream this, so many good souls had to leave the industry while you and your mates lived in denial.....or if you did know and didn't act, that's even worse...I for one small player am disgusted. Huey, pakari and hedley 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom 494 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, pakari said: I never said thy were outsourcing anything, u did! I was trying to understand how by doing what most other sports books in the world do its outsourcing. Maybe if PP do it all then it is outsourced, don't see how you'd make money if they do it all tho? I said it would be a big mistake IF they did it, and I assumed that was the plan because of Messara's recommendation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, Phantom said: I said it would be a big mistake IF they did it, and I assumed that was the plan because of Messara's recommendation. agreed it would be a mistake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taaxi 5 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 Rotorua course land gifted by Ngati Whakaue for the purpose of recreation. Cannot be sold. THE TORCH 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernant 37 Report post Posted August 30, 2018 We all know things are stuffed up from racing clubs selling off land they shoulded be allowed to, from so many staff at Tab on 100k + salaries think they tv stars. Telling us what bet on they realy pi** me off. To racing clubs who cant afford to get tracks in order. And stake money that is so low it not practical to race a horse. Everyone in apart from grass roots racing just bullshiters trying to justify there jobs and that goes for racing clubs who maybe dont get paid but run clubs and have free drinks etc in private rooms for mates who dont spend a penny on racing. We need bookies or somthing better tab free to air not sky what with that, what official decided that please send me his name. More young people in racing my kids brought up on grandad having phone bets and watchin tv not ipad and sky tv. How many people do you need to watch a race one a commentator on race the not 5 tv people and bookies and back to studio crazy. They have just gone to far away from racing not funny even pokies in the tabs may as well buy lotto there to. So anything new a good start to dump everything and start again. THE TORCH 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...