rdytdy

Date For The Messara Report Release

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The Elephant In The Room, well, from where I sit it's massive, it's called NZRB........John can and will recommend all he likes but the track record at NZRB is abysmal, and that's being kind. Whatever is put forward will be positive, knowing John's track record, but to rescue NZ Racing from the abyss, is it possible? The culture has changed, Kiwi's don't come from a "true" gambling culture. Corporate or individual bookies would add another dimension to racing in NZ...and it needs to happen.

Unless competent people are charged with implementing the changes, then what's going to change...but at least Messara's report will give an insight into what can happen...which is more than what's on offer now.

As one notable Aussie journalist stated on Twitter yesterday - "if will be more embarrassing if you don't take notice of what Messara has to say.  From what I hear NZ racing is no longer on its knees...its prostrate and struggling to breathe"...

 

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Every sector has to take some of the blame LZ.

At the code level TB and harness haven’t delivered.

The individual clubs haven’t delivered, 

Even influential bodies ( trainers for example ) haven’t delivered.

Then of course there’s the equally likely situation whereby changing social attitudes mean there is nothing to deliver so no one is to blame for the demise of NZ Racing.

Use that as your background and context.

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I listened to this on National Radio this morning, and thought it a well balanced and positive broadcast, except for the National Party spokesperson, whose party have been totally absent in making little positive contribution for nine years. In respect of Bernard Saundry's comments when he says "I don't see racing as a rich man's sport. It's a sport that employs directly and indirectly more than 50,000 people", I do question this extraordinary number of people he quotes as being "directly and indirectly" involved in the industry. 50,000 is the entire population of cities like New Plymouth, and more people than live in Wanganui etc. Interested to hear cafers' comments on this supposed number of people involved in the industry.

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On 8/21/2018 at 10:37 AM, Eclipsed said:

so all of you are going to pre-read and then cast judgement. Who,in reality, gives a f?

Change doesn't happen in an eye-blink, nor does it happen without angst. For mine, the basic numbers are NZRB costs approx $205m p.a. to run and the return to the codes is approx $150m p.a.

Reverse that equation and NZRacing has an extra $50m to distribute every year...small steps but how much grief to put into place? Only from those who'll squeal.

Change the Chair, change the Board and get the bulldozer moving forward.......

 

Yep on point. Or as a learned colleague of mine once suggested, give EVERYONE who works in Petone a $2 mirror and if they can see their reflection, show them the door.

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The key word is ''indirectly'......like most things coming out of Petone, it's white noise and spin......they are trying to justify their jobs, that's natural, can't blame them for that, but the reality should be, most need to re-apply for their jobs, the whole place needs a clean out, I've said it before....root and branch reform. That's the only way confidence will return to the industry, if it doesn't happen, the domestic product will disappear completely or at the very least diminish to point of negligible.....and another hundred or so Kiwi's will flock across to Oz to join the 700K + that are here now.

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39 minutes ago, bazach said:

I listened to this on National Radio this morning, and thought it a well balanced and positive broadcast, except for the National Party spokesperson, whose party have been totally absent in making little positive contribution for nine years. In respect of Bernard Saundry's comments when he says "I don't see racing as a rich man's sport. It's a sport that employs directly and indirectly more than 50,000 people", I do question this extraordinary number of people he quotes as being "directly and indirectly" involved in the industry. 50,000 is the entire population of cities like New Plymouth, and more people than live in Wanganui etc. Interested to hear cafers' comments on this supposed number of people involved in the industry.

Quoting from this report..

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12055859

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

Thanks Ohoka. I would love to see these figures as it 50,000 seems over the top to me, even including volunteers. Who exactly are "participants". Does this also include punters etc. Not saying the figures are lies, but would like to see substantiation of them. I wonder if anyone has access to them?

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Of course they are lies. Snake oil salesmen like Hughes and Allen will say ANYTHING to keep their jobs. They need a new plan now the "Race Fields Legislation" fairytale has been exposed for what it is. 

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2 hours ago, Phantom said:

Of course they are lies. Snake oil salesmen like Hughes and Allen will say ANYTHING to keep their jobs. They need a new plan now the "Race Fields Legislation" fairytale has been exposed for what it is. 

What have I missed? Whats the fairy tale?

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I can only guess the indirectly part  gives  the wriggle room on the 50,000 people. Can push it and say , diesel mechanic who repairs horse float , his/her part supplier for said float , the tyre company , the caterers on course , their suppliers , the stationary suppliers to all persons requiring stationary in industry. It can get silly but that's the wriggle room if pushed on figures I'd guess.

It's mentioned again this racefields legislation . I cannot understand the racing board borrowed at much fanfare to up prizemoney on strength of this expected cash flow,  if that's dead in water theres a black hole in funds because the piper will need be paid, the tin  can can only be kicked down road up to a point.I was never sure who was going to pay the big dollars to bet on NZ racing . The timezone is all wrong for big overseas markets or am I missing something.? Maybe  morning Aussie punters but every tab I've been in in Aus in morning is empty , apart from one near Flemington on big day and next door to Caulfield on big day. Would many sit at home punting on Riverton at 9am ? I am sure there's a plan though.

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 Would many sit at home punting on Riverton at 9am ? 

Pretty unlikely wouldn't you say RR ? More likely to be checking form for whatever local meeting is on.

American racing is another waste of time...miniscule non-commingled pools....you have to wonder....:rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Phantom said:

Right so it's a massive lie to say 52,700 are EMPLOYED DIRECTLY BY RACING when that number includes 27,700 owners!! 

No. they said employed directly or INDIRECTLY. Somehow, that seems to include owners. Good thing the guvmnt have bought the presented numbers without checking. We may get some synthetic tracks as a result.

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

 Would many sit at home punting on Riverton at 9am ? 

Pretty unlikely wouldn't you say RR ? More likely to be checking form for whatever local meeting is on.

American racing is another waste of time...miniscule non-commingled pools....you have to wonder....:rolleyes:

Iam a huge fan of international stuff and must admit fair play to trackside I think it's a result getting the big races covered like Royal Ascot , The Derby , Dubai World Cup night ,Triple Crown, big HK races  ,big  Japanese  races and likes of Travers hopefully on from Saratoga  this weekend . I appreciate them showing those so credit where it's due as I have posted in past.

However I've got to try get into the no TV weekday Kawasaki , Suzuki, Honda  dirt track meetings of allowance special weights with no stats, no breeding and basically no form whatsoever to go on. 

 

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I can't see the site from here anymore since the aussies changed the betting laws, but will when i'm back home next month. It's wall to wall racing over here now and there is more and more content going on sky channel every week, They've just added USA dogs in the last few weeks, VIC Tab held ~20k on the meeting today with a  take out rate of between 15-30% why wouldn't you. They would be holding near that figure again fixed odds across the entire meeting. The other online bookies here are following suit and offering it all, racing from America, South America, Argentina, Japan, Korea, India, Trots from Sweden etc anything the tab shows on Sky channel.

The racing 'purists' in our industry need to understand the difference between racing and wagering. FFS who really cares what racing is on Trackside as long as our domestic racing is given the appropriate level of coverage. Trackside 1 is pretty much a replay channel half the week anyway, fill it with wall to wall racing and get people betting, it generates turnover which makes its way back to our industry. 

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9 hours ago, pakari said:

I can't see the site from here anymore since the aussies changed the betting laws, but will when i'm back home next month. It's wall to wall racing over here now and there is more and more content going on sky channel every week, They've just added USA dogs in the last few weeks, VIC Tab held ~20k on the meeting today with a  take out rate of between 15-30% why wouldn't you. They would be holding near that figure again fixed odds across the entire meeting. The other online bookies here are following suit and offering it all, racing from America, South America, Argentina, Japan, Korea, India, Trots from Sweden etc anything the tab shows on Sky channel.

The racing 'purists' in our industry need to understand the difference between racing and wagering. FFS who really cares what racing is on Trackside as long as our domestic racing is given the appropriate level of coverage. Trackside 1 is pretty much a replay channel half the week anyway, fill it with wall to wall racing and get people betting, it generates turnover which makes its way back to our industry. 

The American exercise would tell you that doesn't work P. Only the small time and inveterate gamblers bother with that stuff and when you only have a few hundred dollars in the pools, clearly there is little appetite for it when not co-mingled. The other thing is dimensions, you can't compare NZ and Australia for a multitude of reasons...but population and available discretionary dollars being the obvious ones....there's only so much to go around for the average punter.

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Sure totes are terrible, what are the fixed odds turnover like?

I play in as many of these as I can (admittedly not with NZ TAB yet), easy to snipe $5 or $10 arbs all over the place if you are watching Betfair as well and have quick fingers.

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NZ TAB FO were the worst I've ever seen, total rip off.......and their place odds, well, no words to describe. I opened a UBET account and found them to be way better, not great place odds, but way way better than NZ TAB. It's an insult to offer the punter odds that deter betting, or encourage the punter to look offshore, because of the lack of gambling culture in NZ, [save sports betting] they have got away with this for years, but shortly the chickens will come home.......an example for the  unitiatied, 1-15 the place NZ TAB.....1-22 Aus Corps, 1-08 NZ TAB .....1-15 the place Aus Corps. When you bet 5 figures, that's unreal and unviable......no one holds a gun to your head, but to stay in business you must be competitive, thus ........

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As an aside, living in Oz you can't access your NZ TAB account, total blackout, so why on earth would the many Kiwi's living in Oz bet into the NZ racing, maybe through patriotism?......any betting, and it's minuscule will go through TAB CORP or CORP agencies......sorry, the misleaders, those that knowingly mislead the industry and the punters re the race fields legislation and expected revenues should be held accountable, and through the right legal channels if necessary, ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.

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