Ashes farce

[moz1047 93]

I'm not your bitch...look it up yourself!

Thanks in advance.

Sorry about that. Didnt expect you to be my bitch but know that you have far more intelligence than me and are able to source these sort of stats so easy whereas I am not used to finding these things out. Anyway have gone into Cricinfo and only stats I can find for NZ ODI batsmen that have been mentioned in various posts last year are

P Ingram 27.57

K Williamson 24.50

B McCullum 21.60

J Ryder 19.33.

Obviously seeing as how you have said on many occasions how good Ryder is and how poor Ingram is that these figures cannot be correct. This is the reason I asked that you find the stats as I knew I couldn't get it right. :y:

[THE KING 0]

Agree with that King but this doesn't seem to have any connection to the rule that you quoted which seemed to be more about safety of the players and nothing really to do with condition of the pitch unless an earthquake or something like that was involved. Obviously I am not reading the rule correctly but guess you dont have time to show me how it applies to keeping the wicket from getting wet. Sorry I dont have your level of intlligence on cricket matters (or probably anything else for that matter) :confused:

That's ok moz...not too many people do.

The 'Rule' I quoted included a reference to the weather did it not? You've read it and taken some fairly extreme assumptions if you don't mind me saying.

The umpires, knowing the imminent threat of heavy rain, had to consider the safety of all persons within the ground, which included the players, as it is of paramount importance to the ICC.

I think you and a few others on here should put your thinking caps on and consider the ramifications had the umpires elected to stay out there and the heavy rain did eventuate.

All it takes is a bit of lateral thinking. (I'm doing my Don F impersonation there...with a bit of condescending encouragement:D).

[THE TORCH 669]

Sorry about that. Didnt expect you to be my bitch but know that you have far more intelligence than me and are able to source these sort of stats so easy whereas I am not used to finding these things out. Anyway have gone into Cricinfo and only stats I can find for NZ ODI batsmen that have been mentioned in various posts last year are

P Ingram 27.57

K Williamson 24.50

B McCullum 21.60

J Ryder 19.33.

Obviously seeing as how you have said on many occasions how good Ryder is and how poor Ingram is that these figures cannot be correct. This is the reason I asked that you find the stats as I knew I couldn't get it right. :y:

[THE KING 0]

Sorry about that. Didnt expect you to be my bitch but know that you have far more intelligence than me and are able to source these sort of stats so easy whereas I am not used to finding these things out. Anyway have gone into Cricinfo and only stats I can find for NZ ODI batsmen that have been mentioned in various posts last year are

P Ingram 27.57

K Williamson 24.50

B McCullum 21.60

J Ryder 19.33.

Obviously seeing as how you have said on many occasions how good Ryder is and how poor Ingram is that these figures cannot be correct. This is the reason I asked that you find the stats as I knew I couldn't get it right. :y:

Thanks for that moz...so can I infer that you think Ingram should be selected for the Blackcaps as well?

[THE KING 0]

Thanks for that moz...so can I infer that you think Ingram should be selected for the Blackcaps as well?

C'mon moz...it's not a hard question...are you saying that Ingram should be back in the team or not?

Yes or No?

[THE KING 0]

God it's great having you around Torch...talk about an easy target!

On the one hand you trumpet Ingram's 20/20 ability because his average is superior to some, yet you rubbish McMillan who had a superior average to some players considered to be 'greats'.

A guy with your IQ should have a low voice too!

[THE TORCH 669]

God it's great having you around Torch...talk about an easy target!

On the one hand you trumpet Ingram's 20/20 ability because his average is superior to some, yet you rubbish McMillan who had a superior average to some players considered to be 'greats'.

A guy with your IQ should have a low voice too!

Just following your logic TFK. So can you actually tell us whether you officially played for Wellington or were you solely in the Basin as a towel holder? Not a difficult question to answer

[THE KING 0]

Just following your logic TFK. So can you actually tell us whether you officially played for Wellington or were you solely in the Basin as a towel holder? Not a difficult question to answer

1978: Wgtn Reps - Form 1 & Form 2, competed at North Island Tournament

1980: Wgtn Reps - Form 3 & Form 4, NI tournament

1982: Captain of Wgtn U17 reps, NI tournament

1987-88; 88-89; 89-90. Member of Wgtn Cricket Squad (of 20). Played 2 games for Wgtn 'B' in 87-88, and didn't play any cricket whatsoever in 88-89, yet still got selected in the Wgtn squad of 89-90, so someone must have rated me. Also attended numerous fast bowling clinics, of which one was run by D.K.Lillee.

In 1991 I started a job where I was self-employed so flagged cricket for a couple of years.

Indoor Cricket: Played seriously for two years, making the Wgtn Reps both years (86 @ 87). In 87 we beat Auckland in the National Final (which was televised; Keith Quinn doing the commentary). Along the way we beat a Canterbury team featuring Chris Harris, Chris Cairns and Lee Germon.

Soccer: Played soccer for 6 years, making the Wgtn reps each year.

Note to all: My father was not a selector or a coach.

So there you have it Torch, now why don't you tell us all about your days in the ho ho howera high school 3rd XI.

[moz1047 93]

C'mon moz...it's not a hard question...are you saying that Ingram should be back in the team or not?

Yes or No?

Sorry King. Just seen this. Was catching up on bit of redaing in the TB section. To answer your question yes and no. I believe that based on results last year he should have still been in the 30 man squad but would obviously need to get some big scores between now and final selection to remain in the reduced squad and no I dont think he has done enough to be in the 12/13 man team. Surely someone like John Wright would be ideal to get his footwork going and obviously has a reasonable eye.

Question for you. What club side did you play for in Wgtn? Had a couple of years myself at Kilbirnie in late 60s but never good enough to be permanent member of their prem team in those days.

[THE KING 0]

Surely someone like John Wright would be ideal to get his footwork going and obviously has a reasonable eye.

Question for you. What club side did you play for in Wgtn? Had a couple of years myself at Kilbirnie in late 60s but never good enough to be permanent member of their prem team in those days.

Do you honestly think a guy his age would be interested in learning how to move his feet? I don't, as it's something born out of habit from an early age.

Yes, Kilbirnie were extremely strong in that era. I played my junior cricket for them before going to Rongotai College. At school I was playing 1st XI cricket in the fourth form, and our 1st XI used to play in the 2A grade back then (Senior, Snr Reserve, 2A, 2B etc etc), as we were too strong to play the other college's. By the time I left college (end of '83) and joined Kilbirnie(after xmas), they were aware of my age grade representative achievements, and I also had two older brothers playing for Kilbirnie. One was the opening bowler for the seniors and leading wicket-taker, whilst the other had played senior cricket but was, by then, bumming around with his mates in the 2D team.

On joining Kilbirnie, did they put me in their 2A team?...or senior reserve team??...nope, it was straight into the 2D's. The first, and only, game I played for them I took 7-11 off 9.4 overs. I then played one game for the 2A's, before moving up to the Snr Reserves, where I spent the rest of the season.

The following season I spent entirely in the reserves, despite scoring a couple of 50's and being a regular wicket-taker. Our team finished bottom and was therefore relegated to the 2A grade for the following season.

At the start of that following season( on the tuesday before the first game), my brother (who had again been the top wicket-taker for the Snr's) and I were both named in the 2A's for the first game. He was highly pi$$ed off, went to a Karori club practice, came back and told me,"you and I are both playing for Karori now and we're playing Snr Reserve".

We were both living at home (I was 18), he had a car (I didn't), so it sounded like perfect sense to me...ha ha.

I played the season out in the reserves (he played 3 games in reserves before being promoted). At that age I was more interested in scoring on Fri night than I was on Sat afternoon, and turned up to cricket in some shocking states. I attended practice for the first 3 weeks only, and never went again. Despite that, I still got picked to open the bowling for the reserves every week and took approx 30 wickets...hardly staggering stuff.

The following year I attended my first practice on the Tuesday before the first Saturday. Mark Bracewell, who was a selector and Senior player for Karori, asked me what my goals were for the year. I replied that I didn't have any. He told me to have a bowl in the nets. At the end of practice he said, "you're playing Senior on Saturday; pull your head out of your arse and don't let me down!"...and that was the end of my friday nights...ha ha.

Seriously though, I learnt a truckload that season. I opened downwind, whilst bowling upwind was a guy you may have heard of in "filthy" Phil Benfield. He took over 500 senior club wickets during his time and had been around forever by the time I started with the club. Mark Bracewell used to come on 1st change before Evan Gray got his hands on the ball, and that was one end sewn up for the day, whilst the rest of us shared the other end. Erv McSweeney was captain (tactical genius), whilst we also had Tim Ritchie in the team. The following year Derek Stirling arrived along with the late A.D.G. Roberts.

Back to Kilbirnie, I would have stayed there if they'd been a more encouraging club to belong to as, at the time, they had the fastest, bounciest wickets in Wgtn and I always bowled well whenever I played there.

Compare them with Karori. My last season there I captained the Snr Reserves and Wgtn College was the top college by then. Any player from that college started in the reserves, and would get opportunities to play senior as and when they arose, but they all got a taste of senior cricket along the way.

The end.

[THE TORCH 669]

1978: Wgtn Reps - Form 1 & Form 2, competed at North Island Tournament

1980: Wgtn Reps - Form 3 & Form 4, NI tournament

1982: Captain of Wgtn U17 reps, NI tournament

1987-88]

Brilliant

I just love the wee call: "didn't play any cricket whatsoever in 88-89, yet still got selected in the Wgtn squad of 89-90, so someone must have rated me"

Wow have Wisden got you on their records?

Now if someone happened to do some research (some would call it stalking! ) and asked if you were this player or that would you give us an honest answer?? Not the toughest question in the world to answer is it?? Even you could get that call correct, couldnt you??

[THE KING 0]

Brilliant

I just love the wee call: "didn't play any cricket whatsoever in 88-89, yet still got selected in the Wgtn squad of 89-90, so someone must have rated me"

Wow have Wisden got you on their records?

Now if someone happened to do some research (some would call it stalking! ) and asked if you were this player or that would you give us an honest answer?? Not the toughest question in the world to answer is it?? Even you could get that call correct, couldnt you??

As I said Nathan, jealousy will eat you alive. But I'll tell you a funny story about being selected in that 3rd season. As I said, I didn't play the previous season (stress fractures), so one day during the winter of the following year, I got a message to ring Erv McSweeney. Erv was running an indoor cricket arena at the time so I thought it was about that.

I rang him and asked what it was he was ringing about. He replied, "have you been painting Artie Dick's house? (Artie was the head selector for Wgtn). I knew straight away what he was getting at and replied, "You're joking! Why?". Erv, "I have no idea!!!"...ha ha

But you do all the research you like, I couldn't give two hoots...but before you do, how about listing your sporting achievements?

I could do with a laugh or two.

[THE TORCH 669]

As I said Nathan, jealousy will eat you alive.]

Those were great days with real cricketers. McSweeney, Gray, Orminston, Vance, Coney, Cederwell, etc were great to listen to on the radio during those summers. McSweeney was a damn good keeper and showed that in Oz in the WSC. Vance played awesome in Sharjah when many thought he wasnt worthy for a number of reasons, and Gray was Mr Consistent and fully deserved the trip to England.

Must have been a good experience to be near those types of guys. Not jealous - just interested in what they were really like.

There, civil as usual. Can you be?

[THE KING 0]

McSweeney was a damn good keeper and showed that in Oz in the WSC.

Was that the series where he averaged 4.33 or something ridiculous?

Still waiting for you to share your cricketing highlights. C'mon Torch you have the stage now don't let us down.

[THE KING 0]

Those were great days with real cricketers. McSweeney, Gray, Orminston, Vance, Coney, Cederwell, etc were great to listen to on the radio during those summers. McSweeney was a damn good keeper and showed that in Oz in the WSC. Vance played awesome in Sharjah when many thought he wasnt worthy for a number of reasons, and Gray was Mr Consistent and fully deserved the trip to England.

Must have been a good experience to be near those types of guys. Not jealous - just interested in what they were really like.

There, civil as usual. Can you be?

Sure, no problem. And yes, it was a great experience and you'd have to be a fool if you didn't learn a thing or two.

I remember the first game of senior I played. I was at fine leg after bowling an over, and a ball got hit to backward square-leg. I ran around, stopped the ball, and then threw it back to Erv on the full over the top of the stumps. I thought I'd done well.At the end of the over I got told in no uncertain terms by the skipper not to worry about getting the ball back to him on the full. What he wanted his boundary riders to do was get the ball in the air as quick as possible, and as flat as possible, in order to prevent the batsman contemplating taking another run.

McSweeney, as I said, was a tactical genius who won many games with his captaincy. He used to arrive at the ground about 15 minutes before the start of play,go out and do the toss, come back in and say something like, "we're batting; we'll score 250 declared on that track and have them 6 down by the end of play". Usually it played out to a tee.

A favourite tactic of his in 2-day games, when we were fielding last and in search of the last one or two wickets with time running out, was to have all the fielders on the offside bar one guy on the mid-wicket boundary (it was never me...wasn't the most reliable under a high ball). He'd then get Evan Gray to bowl waist high full tosses about 1/2 a metre outside off-stump. Evan, Erv, and Tim Ritchie would then taunt the tailenders into 'having a go', despite the pleadings from their teammates on the sideline who were desperate to stop us from winning (everyone wanted 'not to lose' to us back then). As you'd guess, the batsman would have a go and we'd get the wickets and the victory.

Evan Gray was unfortunate to have been around in the era that he was, as in any other era he would have played a lot more games for NZ.

Bruce Edgar and Brian Cederwall both coached me as a youngster and I picked up a lot of tips from Edgar especially (play in the 'v'...tie an old ball in a stocking and attach to it the washing line and practice playing straight etc).

I didn't have a lot to do with the senior guys in the Wgtn squad, who weren't clubmates of mine (like Coney, Vance, Ormiston, Crowe, Jones etc). I was just a 'boy' and you spoke when spoken to.

The best coach I ever had was the late Andy Roberts (of ND fame). He taught me all about bowling back of a length and gave me a bit of advice about my follow through which improved the consistency of the seam position on the ball upon leaving my hand. His premature death was a blow to all that knew him.

[THE KING 0]

Was that the series where he averaged 4.33 or something ridiculous?

Still waiting for you to share your cricketing highlights. C'mon Torch you have the stage now don't let us down.

Ha ha...ahhh, how do I explain this.

[THE TORCH 669]

Was that the series where he averaged 4.33 or something ridiculous?

Still waiting for you to share your cricketing highlights. C'mon Torch you have the stage now don't let us down.

A much better bat than that was Erv. I think he even chucked way up the order in one game. Outstanding keeper though who definitely did not let us down in that regard. Awesome stumping in one of those games in Oz.

You were right about me. I did play for the HHS 3rd XI. Correct yet again.

[THE KING 0]

A much better bat than that was Erv. I think he even chucked way up the order in one game. Outstanding keeper though who definitely did not let us down in that regard. Awesome stumping in one of those games in Oz.

You were right about me. I did play for the HHS 3rd XI. Correct yet again.

He was thrown in to open the batting but he wasn't a basher and he had a tendency to play across the line a bit too early in his innings.

Apart from that, he was top-knotch.

[THE KING 0]

Ha ha...ahhh, how do I explain this.

Ho ho ho hopeless

[THE TORCH 669]

Great reading posts 60 and 65. Great to hear what you picked up from A.Roberts. What else did he teach you??

I used to love listening and using what those types of guys would offer in terms of knowledge. I probably learnt the most from Gary Robertson. Again it was follow through and how/where the left arm finished that was an indicator of what was delivered etc. Excellent coach. He also had a quirky grip of the ball but was damn difficult to master as I quickly found out and didnt bother with. Derek Stirling was OK but probably far too young to be coaching at the time. Richard Harden was new to NZ when he coached me but was quite enthusiastic. He is now here in Nelson as well and is an interesting individual. There were a few others like Pom imports, Horton from NZ Cricket, etc - all valuable in some sort of way. Club wise Bruce Phillips was a guy who I always looked up to despite his colourful incidents with officialdom and opposing teams. An outstanding athlete who should have gone a lot further than he did ( He definitely played CD 2nds and may have had the odd game for the 1sts). One season I was really starting to lose it and he spent hours with me working on this and that (mainly through the bad habits Id picked up through indoor cricket while at uni) and we ended up winning the title that year. You may have played a guy called Kerry O'Neill in the B's. He was our club coach that year and without a doubt is the best coach I've had in any sport at anytime. Great days.

[THE KING 0]

Great reading posts 60 and 65. Great to hear what you picked up from A.Roberts. What else did he teach you??

I used to love listening and using what those types of guys would offer in terms of knowledge. I probably learnt the most from Gary Robertson. Again it was follow through and how/where the left arm finished that was an indicator of what was delivered etc. Excellent coach. He also had a quirky grip of the ball but was damn difficult to master as I quickly found out and didnt bother with. Derek Stirling was OK but probably far too young to be coaching at the time. Richard Harden was new to NZ when he coached me but was quite enthusiastic. He is now here in Nelson as well and is an interesting individual. There were a few others like Pom imports, Horton from NZ Cricket, etc - all valuable in some sort of way. Club wise Bruce Phillips was a guy who I always looked up to despite his colourful incidents with officialdom and opposing teams. An outstanding athlete who should have gone a lot further than he did ( He definitely played CD 2nds and may have had the odd game for the 1sts). One season I was really starting to lose it and he spent hours with me working on this and that (mainly through the bad habits Id picked up through indoor cricket while at uni) and we ended up winning the title that year. You may have played a guy called Kerry O'Neill in the B's. He was our club coach that year and without a doubt is the best coach I've had in any sport at anytime. Great days.

Roberts focused more on making sure the bowling hand followed the line of the ball down the pitch which had two related effects.

1/ You (well I did anyway) actually end up bowling a 'heavier ball'.

2/ It helped me to avoid falling away to my left too much and caused the ball to come out 'seam up' more often than not.

Prior to encountering him, I had been all about trying to get my left arm through my action and out behind me as quick as possible. This, as I said, meant that I used to fall away somewhat and I didn't release the ball from a very upright position.

He really did make things so much more simpler and was a great communicator and a brilliant man-manager.

Kerry O'Neill is not a name that rings a bell.

About the only CD guy I can recall is Ross Glover. I first played against him in 86 at the Indoor Nationals and again in 87. I used to play in this tournament in Auckland over the New Year at the Auckland domain (I think). It was fairly social but the cricket was of a high(ish) standard. Glover used to play there as well and I thought he had a ton of talent but was perhaps a little too 'easy come, easy go' to realise his full potential.

Billy Stirling ended up being a colossus at Karori and captained the seniors for many a season. Personally I never found him to be of much help to me but that's not to say others didn't; in fact, I know that others did.

The end.

[THE TORCH 669]

Roberts focused more on making sure the bowling hand followed the line of the ball down the pitch which had two related effects.

1/ You (well I did anyway) actually end up bowling a 'heavier ball'.

2/ It helped me to avoid falling away to my left too much and caused the ball to come out 'seam up' more often than not.

Prior to encountering him, I had been all about trying to get my left arm through my action and out behind me as quick as possible. This, as I said, meant that I used to fall away somewhat and I didn't release the ball from a very upright position.

He really did make things so much more simpler and was a great communicator and a brilliant man-manager.

Kerry O'Neill is not a name that rings a bell.

About the only CD guy I can recall is Ross Glover. I first played against him in 86 at the Indoor Nationals and again in 87. I used to play in this tournament in Auckland over the New Year at the Auckland domain (I think). It was fairly social but the cricket was of a high(ish) standard. Glover used to play there as well and I thought he had a ton of talent but was perhaps a little too 'easy come, easy go' to realise his full potential.

Billy Stirling ended up being a colossus at Karori and captained the seniors for many a season. Personally I never found him to be of much help to me but that's not to say others didn't]

Yeah played with Gloves. Excellent fielder and a batsman who could tear attacks apart bigtime. Often went for it far too early though. Is a pretty handy golfer now.

Like the bowling tip.

[bblunt 334]

With those that are worth listening to, like Chappell, Warne and Benaud, then I'm all ears. When Healey and Slater start talking then I switch off mentally to what they're saying.

Slater's just so hard on the ear that even if he did say something useful i wouldn't hear it.

Healey's the worst of the lot

Chappell always comes out with something insightful amidst the mindless babble of Slater and Healey

Benaud - God?

Hmm..interesting. Is that rosemary? She seems to make more sense

Although she's still missing the point. And so is properispomenon (or mepoorpenisporn - best i could come up with using all letters).

We all know why they went off the field. It's the when which is under scrutiny. If umpires are going to begin clearing the field at hints of rain under the new (Oct 2010) rules we'll have plenty more stupid situations such as this one.

What if there was half an hour to go in the days play? On the fifth day? Ashes decider? One wicket needed? There's a hint of rain. Billy Bowden gets a word in his ear "bit 'o rain on the way" and calls it: "Sorry chaps. Gotta go, there's a perceived threatening circumstance on the way".

Wouldn't happen. And neither should it on day one. As all cricketing scribes agree. You pillocks (for completeness)

That was the point. Not a pissing contest. Cheers for the "King - Unplugged" by the way, but i think a "King - Roasted" would be more informative

[THE KING 0]

Hmm..interesting. Is that rosemary? She seems to make more sense

Although she's still missing the point. And so is properispomenon (or mepoorpenisporn - best i could come up with using all letters).

We all know why they went off the field. It's the when which is under scrutiny. If umpires are going to begin clearing the field at hints of rain under the new (Oct 2010) rules we'll have plenty more stupid situations such as this one.

What if there was half an hour to go in the days play? On the fifth day? Ashes decider? One wicket needed? There's a hint of rain. Billy Bowden gets a word in his ear "bit 'o rain on the way" and calls it: "Sorry chaps. Gotta go, there's a perceived threatening circumstance on the way".

Wouldn't happen. And neither should it on day one. As all cricketing scribes agree. You pillocks (for completeness)

That was the point. Not a pissing contest. Cheers for the "King - Unplugged" by the way, but i think a "King - Roasted" would be more informative

So let me get this right. When I agree with you then I'm talking sense? When I don't then I'm a farkwit at best? (I could swear we're twins with that line of reasoning).

And just to correct you with your hypothetical situation, as you have a tendency not to let the truth get in the way of a good yarn.

The umpires (that's both of them...not just billy...but it does reveal what your alterior motive actually is) got told that 'heavy rain' was imminent; not 'a bit of rain is on the way'. But would that make a difference on the last day with half an hour to go? Duh!! How thick are you!!

Of course it would you egg! The main reason is that, unlike the 1st day, they don't have to preserve the wicket for the other 4 days!! As both Prop and I pointed out, what if they'd played on and it had bucketed down, causing the unnecessary loss of an extra 2-3 hours (hypothetically speaking).

I know you don't rate Bowden, but the sooner you accept he's a bit better (and a lot more knowledgeable) than you think then the better off you'll be.

But here's a bit of advice and I hope you've got your eyes open this time. You really are out of your league here timmy tugmuscle, and it's abundantly clear that you have no real feel for the game. Feel free to subject yourself to more humiliation if that's what you desire but I'd suggest you pick another sport because I'm giving you a mother of a spanking here.

[bblunt 334]

So let me get this right. When I agree with you then I'm talking sense? When I don't then I'm a farkwit at best? (I could swear we're twins with that line of reasoning).

And just to correct you with your hypothetical situation, as you have a tendency not to let the truth get in the way of a good yarn.

The umpires (that's both of them...not just billy...but it does reveal what your alterior motive actually is) got told that 'heavy rain' was imminent]

Quite like Bowden actually. Reckon he's rather good. Nice rant tho. And nice wee crawl back to make you sleep a bit sounder after your Cricinfo quote debacle. Ooh that does look good in bold. Look even better with a hyperlink. I'll work on that;)

Maybe if you were watching at the time you'd have more sound reasoning. It was silly. Everybody knows it. Apart from you. You are silly. It's a veritable pattercake circus in Taylorville