Well said Mr Laws!!

[Grahame Noblet 2]

...Laws continues to make the same statements again and again simply stating what many of us already know. .

Exactly,we all know what is wrong - there ARE a disproportionate number of Maoris who are lazy,bludgers,no respect for anything,baby beaters and "gimmee gimmees".

So why should special programmes be put in place to help these "no hopers"?

The only ones to be able to help are themseves and many just can't be bothered,and by now one would think they would have sorted themseves out,it's been a long time ,but they have NO excuses except by blaming the "white man's laws".

[Grahame Noblet 2]

How can anyone respect Laws after he was bashed by his Mrs? All he is good at is being a closest homosexual who wears makeup, a failed politician and a media-whore.

Links to the above please.

[Philocon 1]

An excellent point, not that I agreed with wph's statement about the use of treaty money in the first place.

It still doesn't change the fact that a disproportionate amount of Maori parents are nothing but lazy, state-reliant bludgers who do nothing to change the direction in which they are heading.

And I don't care how much you go on about "we need to help them" Phil]

No one and certainly not me has suggested that Maori are not disproportionately represented in these stats. I think we can mostly be agreed on that. Whether it is "lazy and idle bludging parents" that is probably true for some as well as some in other groups too. Others are inadequate for a range of reasons and many Maori have already raised the question of confronting the issue within Maoridom and there is no argument that this must happen more.As I said we tend to overlook the fact that there are many in Maoridom trying to do this and some agencies too but obviously not enough. I don't say it is not a Maori problem but it is not exclusively Maori and while the solutions require Maori people in their own community to stand up and challenge their peers, it also requires action from the wider society as well. Child abuse is an issue facing all of us not just the community it happens in. So the resources and actions to combat it must come from both the wider community as well as the groups themselves affected.

Laws in a sensation seeking way states what most of us generally are agreed on as to the existence of issues but no solutions.

Despite teletubbies negative experiences of CYFS it does achieve many positive outcomes. Those outcomes are not news and don't get headlines only the negative ones. The dept staff and social workers deal with thousands of cases daily and weekly which we never hear of because they are solved satisfactorily. It's the ones that go belly up that make the front page and the staff that stuff up. There is an increased role for them and such agencies and increased support to others including Maori individuals and agencies working in the area. I haven't gone on about "we need to help them" when it comes to abusive parents and we all know things have to change. By 'babies in exchange for income' lifestyle has to be stopped, I presume you mean the view that some teenage girls choose to become pregnant as an option to gain state support rather than work etc. I don't discount that for some this is a choice but I suspect that it gets over exaggerated. Education and reaching these kids and the poor parenting for whatever the reason, conservative attitudes to sex and lifestyle education access to these things with or without parental involvement (which is not in all cases positive) are all matters to address.

it's a problem not as simple as some would think and its solutions are not as simple as some would think especially Laws headline seeking rantings.

Of course there are Maori parents who deserve a kick in the arse and more just as there are in other communities and they are part of the problem but that on it's own is not the solution.

[nahla 1]

alcohol and drugs are the main interest in most maori teenage lives and benefits help them achieve this,its a fact.Cut all benefits to them let their billion dollar economy and handouts fund them.Take a trip up north see how some of their people live ,my greyhounds have better accomodation,wheres all the money?A few fatcat maoris reaping it all.Lets stop this treaty bullchit and put the money into health and education something for all kiwis not just the elite class MAORI,or let them row back home.

[THE KING 0]

A typical reply from Phil, stil trying to spread the blame amongst all members of the community. For Christs sake Phil, pull your head out of your ar$e for once!

What I want to see (for starters) is this. I want to see a TV ad campaign where a Maori parent is having the finger pointed at them as being an abusive caregiver to a toddler, with a Maori elder pulling the perpetrator aside and saying "It's not ok!" (It doesn't have to be those words exactly, but I'm in a hurry here and I'm sure you know what I mean).

Why has there not been a tv ad campaign for that already? We have them for drink driving, domestic violence, gambling, but not the worst of them all! Why, why, why? Is it because it actually IS predominantly a Maori problem and the powers that be don't know how to address it!

Dollars to donuts that when an ad campaign does eventuate that it'll be a white parent being accused of the abuse, with a brown parent doing the chiding!!

[Philocon 1]

alcohol and drugs are the main interest in most maori teenage lives and benefits help them achieve this,its a fact.Cut all benefits to them let their billion dollar economy and handouts fund them.Take a trip up north see how some of their people live ,my greyhounds have better accomodation,wheres all the money?A few fatcat maoris reaping it all.Lets stop this treaty bullchit and put the money into health and education something for all kiwis not just the elite class MAORI,or let them row back home.

Like many you confuse the treaty settlement payouts with provision of social services. Demanding that Maori fund social services from treaty settlement payouts which is the money of the iwi concerned is like demanding that you fund the local hospice because you have some money in the bank.

Alcohol and drugs are not the main interest in most Maori teenage lives any more than non Maori. It is your opinion not a fact. It probably is for a minority and it also applies to a minority of non Maori too. Cutting benefits will not solve the problem as you think it will and is likely to create more and worse ones. To get at a small minority of abusers you want to punish many innocent people who are in their position through no fault of their own. If a JCA tribunal penalises a friend of yours for returning a positive do you expect to be punished too even if you never have?

I am under no illusions as to how "some of these people live" and don't need to take a trip up north to find out. But keeping it in perspective; firstly it is still a minority of Maori let alone the entire population we are talking about and secondly the solution does not lie in punitive measures that cause innocent people to suffer unnecessarily.

To "put the money (from treaty settlements) into health and education something for all kiwis" as you suggest would make little or no difference to solving the current health and education shortfalls. You're talking about a few million out of a health and education budget of around 30 plus billion - a drop in the bucket.

There may be some Maori leaders who have benefited disproportionately from the settlement process but that happens in most situations where large amounts of money change hands and 'professionals' and 'consultants' become involved. If we cancelled other things because of the fact we thought lawyers and accountants etc were 'creaming it' then nothing at all would ever happen. The bulk of the payment have gone to the iwi not to privileged elites as many believe.

A large portion of the income generated from treaty settlements does go to the very social and health issues you mention, targeted at the very problems you mention. But as I said the amount is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall govt social expenditure which Maori also pay taxes towards.

The treaty settlement process is no more a nonsense than the longstanding argument of the couple up north a few years ago for compensation etc over a bridge fatality and arguments with the defence forces over responsibilty and other such issues over the years where the Pakeha claimants get widespread support and sympathy. No one suggests their recompense be not paid and instead diverted to providing social services.

But the principles of correcting an injustice is the same just on a larger scale for Maori because it was so widespread.

[Philocon 1]

A typical reply from Phil, stil trying to spread the blame amongst all members of the community. For Christs sake Phil, pull your head out of your ar$e for once!

What I want to see (for starters) is this. I want to see a TV ad campaign where a Maori parent is having the finger pointed at them as being an abusive caregiver to a toddler, with a Maori elder pulling the perpetrator aside and saying "It's not ok!" (It doesn't have to be those words exactly, but I'm in a hurry here and I'm sure you know what I mean).

Why has there not been a tv ad campaign for that already? We have them for drink driving, domestic violence, gambling, but not the worst of them all! Why, why, why? Is it because it actually IS predominantly a Maori problem and the powers that be don't know how to address it!

Dollars to donuts that when an ad campaign does eventuate that it'll be a white parent being accused of the abuse, with a brown parent doing the chiding!!

Actually it's you who keeps talking about blame not me. I find searching for someone to blame does not achieve much. However the responsibilty for resolving the issues applies to all of us Maori and Pakeha.

How can you guage what campaigns are being conducted amongst Maori if your only guide is what ads you see on TV. The campaigns you refer to are for broad issues that affect the whole community. But you want such ads for a targeted group played on TV that reaches many who may not need the message while those most in need of it may not even be watching.

Because you don't see something happening on mainstream channels doesn't necessarily mean agencies are not doing anything in directly targeting the groups concerned.

have you really made any effort to find out what the many agencies working in the field are already doing? You might be surprised but the problem is more of the initiatives we have seen and new ones are required and a lot of it comes down to funding and staffing, not hand wringing and rantings pandering to perceptions and prejudice..

[Grahame Noblet 2]

Phil,answer a question please;

Why should the law abiding,wellbehaved,"normal" citizen have to look after/pander to those others (Maoris are over represented here) who have no intention of being "upright citizens", those who have no intention of job hunting,those who just want to take drugs,churn out and bash kids,and one another and be known as anti social misfits?

Make this a second question,why not get rid of separate Maori agencies?

Please don't say it is the correct thing to do,maybe in your Socialist ideals for New Zealand but certainly not in the eyes of most New Zealanders.

[THE KING 0]

Actually it's you who keeps talking about blame not me. I find searching for someone to blame does not achieve much. However the responsibilty for resolving the issues applies to all of us Maori and Pakeha.

How can you guage what campaigns are being conducted amongst Maori if your only guide is what ads you see on TV. The campaigns you refer to are for broad issues that affect the whole community. But you want such ads for a targeted group played on TV that reaches many who may not need the message while those most in need of it may not even be watching.

Because you don't see something happening on mainstream channels doesn't necessarily mean agencies are not doing anything in directly targeting the groups concerned.

have you really made any effort to find out what the many agencies working in the field are already doing? You might be surprised but the problem is more of the initiatives we have seen and new ones are required and a lot of it comes down to funding and staffing, not hand wringing and rantings pandering to perceptions and prejudice..

You've actually contradicted yourself there Phil.

You said this:

" However the responsibilty for resolving the issues applies to all of us Maori and Pakeha".

Now that sounds to me like you're putting that into (by using your definition) a 'broad issue affecting the whole community', which is how you defined the tv ads relating to domestic violence, drink driving, and gambling.

You then described my suggestion of tv ads for Maori infant abuse as:

"But you want such ads for a targeted group played on TV that reaches many who may not need the message while those most in need of it may not even be watching".

Well excuse me Phil, but I've never smacked a female or my daughter, or had a pokie machine addiction (I do have a excess breath alcohol conviction from 23 yrs ago so I'll stick my hand up for that),

yet whenever I turn on the tv I'm being subjected to these messages; messages I don't need yet they still reach me.

Now we all know Phil, that there is a lot of work going on in the community to help those with gambling addictions, drinking problems, and domestic violence issues, yet we're still seeing tv campaigns for those issues almost daily on our tv screens.

The big question is, why no Maori/toddler campaigns! It's as important as those other issues because you've already told us that it's a society problem, and Maori/Pakeha/PI's/Asian's etc etc need to be exposed to these ads as well Phil, and if you knew anything about marketing, you'd know that tv campaigns have a far greater reach than most community based organisations.

The answer is that it's a political hot potato and if a tv campaign, aimed at Maori/toddler abuse, was aired on tv then yourself and all your liberal, lefty, tree-hugging winkers would be up in arms over it.

So what is it Phil? Is it a problem affecting all of us? If so, then lets see some tv ads reflecting that. Or is it, as you claimed, a problem affecting a "targeted group (your words)"? In which case, stop trying to tell the rest of us that it's our problem as well.

[Philocon 1]

You've actually contradicted yourself there Phil.

You said this:

" However the responsibilty for resolving the issues applies to all of us Maori and Pakeha".

Now that sounds to me like you're putting that into (by using your definition) a 'broad issue affecting the whole community', which is how you defined the tv ads relating to domestic violence, drink driving, and gambling.

You then described my suggestion of tv ads for Maori infant abuse as:

"But you want such ads for a targeted group played on TV that reaches many who may not need the message while those most in need of it may not even be watching".

Well excuse me Phil, but I've never smacked a female or my daughter, or had a pokie machine addiction (I do have a excess breath alcohol conviction from 23 yrs ago so I'll stick my hand up for that),

yet whenever I turn on the tv I'm being subjected to these messages]

There's no contradiction at all. By your own admission you see such a campaign is trying to reach a target group who are actually committing the offences you mention so why do you want more ads on TV targeting you when the money might be better spent reaching the actual group concerned?

The messages you have to watch obviously don't apply to you and that's excellent but others watching may well have it apply to them. Unfortunately they cannot screen individual homes and TVs to tailor the viewing ads. If people could choose which ads they had on their TV then the families most needing to see them would most likely be the ones not viewing them.

Also all the ads and campaigns you mention are done by different agencies addressing different problems often with different strategies. You'd need to ask the agencies involved exactly why they choose the mediums they do for their campaigns.

[Philocon 1]

How can anyone respect Laws after he was bashed by his Mrs? All he is good at is being a closest homosexual who wears makeup, a failed politician and a media-whore.

You can't be serious! I don't have any time for Laws myself but none of the above figure in my assessment of him.

If he is a closet homosexual how on earth would you know unless he came out and he hasn't? Probably because he's not, or if he is, then he might be wary of feeding homophobic bigotry like you have just expressed.

Anyway it's irrelevant just as most of the rest of your reasons are. There are sound reasons for challenging the crap Laws comes out with but you haven't really provided any. Maybe your "media-whore" label may have something to it, although not words I'd use; but it's a basis for challenging his headline seeking not for not respecting him. There are other reasons why I might or might not respect the guy but we are not discussing that here anyway.

Maybe you really did mean closest and not closet. Perhaps you mean he is closest homosexual to you. Well that throws a cloud over your sexual orientation and your real relationship with him. Would explain how you know so much about him personally though. There are examples of people being outwardly homophobic to cover the fact they really are gay themselves.

[Philocon 1]

Exactly,we all know what is wrong - there ARE a disproportionate number of Maoris who are lazy,bludgers,no respect for anything,baby beaters and "gimmee gimmees".

So why should special programmes be put in place to help these "no hopers"?

The only ones to be able to help are themseves and many just can't be bothered,and by now one would think they would have sorted themseves out,it's been a long time ,but they have NO excuses except by blaming the "white man's laws".

The problems maybe aren't as obvious to all as much as I thought but yes some of the offenders you mentioned are part of the problem.

The "special programmes" you refer to are not designed to specifically help the people you refer to but prevent the cycle continuing and help the victims including children of this abuse. It also makes sense to try and change or rehabilitate even the worst offenders in trying to avoid more victims in the future. Obviously prosecution, penalties and punitive measures are also necessary in some but not all cases.

The answer to your question as to "why should special programmes be put in place..." is that it is in the broader interests of the wider society to resolve these issues and also its responsibilty.

That is assuming you believe we do have a society or perhaps you subscribe to the extreme individualism of Margaret Thatcher that "there is no society" - a view not even shared by most of her own Conservative Party, let alone the rest of us.

[nahla 1]

phil you cant be serious when was the last time you were ever around maori teenage males?WAKE UP ITS A FACT.They only have interest in drugs and booze ,the sooner people like you wake up to it the faster we can do something,and no more money.

[Grahame Noblet 2]

....The answer to your question as to "why should special programmes be put in place..." is that it is in the broader interests of the wider society to resolve these issues and also its responsibilty..

Only (IMO) the broader interests of those of your ilk (rabid socialists),the same objectives can be managed without special programmes,and all programmes should NOT be based on race for any reason.

[Properispomenon 1]

Phil, we're just about to begin the homeward leg on our travels.

Normally we do the Magellan thing and make it a full circumnavigation.

That would mean - having gone Hong Kong-Frankfurt to get here - that we'd do, say, NYC, Vegas, San Fran and Honolulu on the way back...

No longer.

We are doing Frankfurt-Hong Kong.

Why?

Because of the dopey politically-correct apparatchiks in the US Government who, although they know that 99% of their known terrorist threats are youngish males of Middle Eastern ethnicity, don't simply target those folk for their spot security checks but instead come down heavy-handed on sweet, innocent, not-young, not-Middle Eastern folk like myself...

Hell, they even now have the powers to handle 'my junk' and to take very revealing x-ray pics of it, too.

Similarly, authorities in New Zealand know that a goodly percentage of all suspicious infant mortality figures are not the result of European-origined 'caregivers' but are, in fact, quite easily attributable to a group within the country who make up, what, 12 to 13% of the total population.

I can't conceive of an occasion when I would want to hurt a toddler or even a child ... and I'd wager neither would most European New Zealanders ... and yet the 'No, its not okay' campaigns are blanket in their scope - attempting, like, to make a terrorist of me just as the US is doing - instead of being focussed exactly at the group who need the lessons.

[Philocon 1]

Phil, we're just about to begin the homeward leg on our travels.

Normally we do the Magellan thing and make it a full circumnavigation.

That would mean - having gone Hong Kong-Frankfurt to get here - that we'd do, say, NYC, Vegas, San Fran and Honolulu on the way back...

No longer.

We are doing Frankfurt-Hong Kong.

Why?

Because of the dopey politically-correct apparatchiks in the US Government who, although they know that 99% of their known terrorist threats are youngish males of Middle Eastern ethnicity, don't simply target those folk for their spot security checks but instead come down heavy-handed on sweet, innocent, not-young, not-Middle Eastern folk like myself...

Hell, they even now have the powers to handle 'my junk' and to take very revealing x-ray pics of it, too.

Similarly, authorities in New Zealand know that a goodly percentage of all suspicious infant mortality figures are not the result of European-origined 'caregivers' but are, in fact, quite easily attributable to a group within the country who make up, what, 12 to 13% of the total population.

I can't conceive of an occasion when I would want to hurt a toddler or even a child ... and I'd wager neither would most European New Zealanders ... and yet the 'No, its not okay' campaigns are blanket in their scope - attempting, like, to make a terrorist of me just as the US is doing - instead of being focussed exactly at the group who need the lessons.

Your arguments would stack up if the percentage of Maori abusers were the majority of their population but they are not. Like non Maori they comprise a tiny minority of their population too and while their figures are disproportionately high in the overall stats they are not the only ones who commit such offences so the focus on the issue must still be on the general population at the same time as it is addressed within the highest at risk groups.

From some of the comments you'd think that the only offending in this area has been Maori but that we know is not true.

No one is suggesting there is no problem and that certain areas need more attention than others but keeping a sense of perspective is also important. If there was a magic solution to the problem I'm sure it would have been applied a long time ago.

In 2003 The Ministry of Social Development reported that the rates of child abuse per 1,000 was 11.9 for Māori and 5.9 for non-Māori. Pacific children, were not over-represented among children assessed as abused, being about 11 percent, about the same representation as they have in the child population.

There is no doubt that there is a problem in a certain section of the Maori community but 5.9 is unacceptably high for the non Maori community also. So to pretend that the problem is solely a Maori one is to ignore the incidence of it in other groups. Focusing only on the repugnant high profile cases can give a pretty distorted view of the situation.

A UNICEF report on child maltreatment deaths in 27 OECD countries, during the 1990s, placed New Zealand twenty-fourth out of 27 countries, with a rate of 1.2 deaths per 100,000 children under the age of 15 years. The OECD median was 0.6 deaths per 100,000. Only Mexico and the United States were ranked above us. That rate is pretty appalling but Maori don't make all the stats and while they are higher than any other group we focus on one to the exclusion of the others at our peril. It's a problem that should concern everyone and despite the impressions shown here much is and has been done to try and address the problems but a lot more still needs to be done. However some of the draconian solutions suggested will not necessarily do it.

Referring to low life scum and all the other angry epithets we can find to direct at the perpetrators of such abuse cases and firing off kneejerk solutions with no background knowledge might emotionally be good for some of us, but it doesn't really help in tackling solutions to the problem.

There is no argument that our stats are appalling and 5.9% is is far too high for non Maori too. But then our overall rates of abuse of people is not good also including women, elderly etc and again not exclusively Maori. A very high percentage of woman have been found to have suffered some form of abuse and while the figures I quoted relate to children between the ages of 0-16 the rate of offences against girls rockets up in the 12 -16 age groups and again not exclusively Maori. There really is a serious problem in the way many in our society tolerate violence and again in the Pakeha, Asian, Pacific Island as well as Maori community albeit sectors of those groups and as minority but still too large a minority - a minority of 1 is 1 too many.

As for the US approach to searching of travellers at airports etc, I believe their reaction for years has been heavy handed and draconian and almost hysterical in nature at times. However if the focus is concentrated only on the obvious suspect racial groups, it would not be that hard for the terror groups to use WASPish looking sympathisers to go through Customs with the right equipment for them so I can see why they would not just target Palestinian/Arab looking individuals and it may well not be a pc reaction as you suggest.

Then again America has seldom shown much tact and subtlety in these processes either whatever strategy they adopt.

[Philocon 1]

Only (IMO) the broader interests of those of your ilk (rabid socialists),the same objectives can be managed without special programmes,and all programmes should NOT be based on race for any reason.

Unfortunate that you can only discuss any issue in a black and white "nasty rabid baddie socialists" versus us good freedom loving conservative guys mentality Grahame. No wonder the issues are so difficult to resolve if that's the only parameters you can debate such issues in. The present govt whom you see as the buffer against the nasty rabid socialists of my ilk have continued many of the programmes of their nasty rabid socialist predecessors so where does that leave you. Believe it or not this issue sometimes cuts across party and ideological lines but you'll probably have difficulty grasping that, maybe in the same way that the Tea Party in the USA has problems understanding that moderate Republicans are part of the same party as them.

There are liberal elements on the centre right and part of your supposed buffer party against this socialist monster who , who probably don't see eye to eye with you on this either. It is not always as clearcut as you see it, as there are social libertarians on the left and right, social liberals on the left and right and social conservatives on the left and right. Being a liberal is not to automatically be left wing and you can easily be an economic liberal and a social conservative and a mixture of other combinations too. It's far more complex than you like to portray it.

Unfortunately opposing any programme that targets particular races that have section s that need a leg up isn't as even handed as you think. Some of the inequalities we have today are from policies of the past that targeted particular races negatively by excluding them. So until that disparity is fully addressed the programmes are likely to stay. Most are practical ways of reaching a target group at risk such as some Maori children.

[Philocon 1]

phil you cant be serious when was the last time you were ever around maori teenage males?WAKE UP ITS A FACT.They only have interest in drugs and booze ,the sooner people like you wake up to it the faster we can do something,and no more money.

Often and very recently. I know and also grew up with many Maori teenage males and many actually most were not as you stereotype them but alas too many always have been and are. But I also know and grew up with many Pakeha and PI teenage males who also fit that stereotype.

But the majority of teenage Maori males like their counterparts in other races are not.

[nahla 1]

true words phil ,but as a %maori are head and shoulders above.Maybe maori should worry about this generation and not what was the past. Move on maori and sort out todays problems,no more freebies to be handed out,go work for a buck.

[Philocon 1]

true words phil ,but as a %maori are head and shoulders above.Maybe maori should worry about this generation and not what was the past. Move on maori and sort out todays problems,no more freebies to be handed out,go work for a buck.

Most Maori do and most actually bring their kids up well just like the rest of us. Just like the negative non Maori stats and the rest of the crime stats they are far too high but overall still make a tiny percentage of the overall population. The overwhelming majority of people whether PI, Asian, Maori or Pakeha nurture their kids properly, do not assault others or commit crimes. An unacceptably high percentage does not make a majority or even a huge minority. It is still a tiny minority but that tiny minority in every group is where kids and women and men and the elderly etc are at risk. We tend to lose perspective on the wider picture when repugnant horrific cases grab the headlines and rail about stats but there are many kids from all communities who suffer and we don't get to hear about other than as statistical figures - 5.9, 10.9. per 100k etc.

We don't have a choice as to which social issues we address and which we don't. We have to address all of them at the same time. The past has a huge influence on the present and so cannot be ignored just as the present has a huge impact on the future.

Looking at things in isolation does not lead us to solutions. Sure Maori are overly represented in the child abuse stats, crime stats etc. But so are low income and deprived groups and Maori are much more highly represented amongst them as well.

[Tauhei Notts 1,413]

Madlib,

To the best of my knowledge the closest homosexual to me lives two kilometres away. How many closet homosexuals there are within that two kilometre circle; I don't know and I don't care.

Which reminds me, it is riddle time;

"If a homosexual comes out of the closet, what does a lesbian come out of?"

The liquor cabinet, of course.

[nahla 1]

phil the only reason that maori are in the low income bracket is that they dont stay in school.To many are out comitting the crimes you speak of.The boy who died while out tagging,his mother should be sent to jail for not knowing where her kid was at night,i know where mine are.Maori parents and not all should spend more time with their kids and less in pubs/casino and actually try to raise them.Its a race that has themselves to blame not the white man.before youre a racist bullchit comes out ...guess what my wifes maori and my 4 kids all part maori. 2 at uni,1 in aussie playing league for cowboys and a 6 year old.We were there for them everyday,my wife is hardworking,she moved from kaitaia at 16 to not slip into the cycle,her brothers jail,druggies,no jobs losers,same parents different choices.

[Grahame Noblet 2]

phil the only reason that maori are in the low income bracket is that they dont stay in school.To many are out comitting the crimes you speak of.The boy who died while out tagging,his mother should be sent to jail for not knowing where her kid was at night,i know where mine are.Maori parents and not all should spend more time with their kids and less in pubs/casino and actually try to raise them.Its a race that has themselves to blame not the white man.before youre a racist bullchit comes out ...guess what my wifes maori and my 4 kids all part maori. 2 at uni,1 in aussie playing league for cowboys and a 6 year old.We were there for them everyday,my wife is hardworking,she moved from kaitaia at 16 to not slip into the cycle,her brothers jail,druggies,no jobs losers,same parents different choices.

I agree with the above,and Phil,please face facts - the percentages may be low but that does not change the fact that Maori offending is much higher %' age wise than that of any other race,and they can only blame themselves for this,not the rest of NZ or past policies,(regardless of how you have been brainwashed in earlier years),they have had opportunities to better themselves since the settlers arrived here,(especially in more recent times)but many can't be bothered to get off their ar$es and do a honest days work,they appear to be far to interested in promoting their so called "macho,warrior" image they think they have,when actually all of these "misfits" are just lazy,bad bug@ers.

[Properispomenon 1]

Exactly, Nahla and Graham...

We all make our own choices...

And New Zealand really is the land of opportunity...

But you have to choose to take those opportunities.

A great example is the current Prime Minister. He was the product of a single parent home. In which the only income was a benefit. Did he blame something that had happened 150 years ago? Did he say 'Oh, stuff it, it's a life of crime, drugs and child-beating for me!'? No, of course not. Using the self-same education opportunities that are available to every New Zealander he flourished.

Maori feature at the top end of nearly every bad statistic this country produces.

Unless there is a concerted effort, or will, from Maori 'leadership', that won't change.

[Dennis 0]

There is no Maori leadership Murray, that's part of the problem.

Remember after the Kahui twins got killed Pita Sharples called for a series of hui around the country to try and resolve some of the issues.

Fat lot of good that did as since the Kahui twins episode it seems things have got worse.

Now I am not blaming Sharples specifically, as one person can't resolve the issue, but on this occasion, as many times before, it was all "hui and no dui".

Let's face it, if you are part of the Maori "brostocracy", what's going to be easier and more profitable-being on the Treaty gravy train or trying to tackle child abuse?