Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 I'm not referring to the time taken to install, Pitty, rather the possibility of existing tracks being rendered unavailable permanently, and possibly not being allowed daily access to the new track for work. We don't even know what type of alternative surface is being mooted - there are several, some quite good, some not so...and Strathayr too, which I think would be everyone's preference. The issue of contamination would need to be addressed with all the mud and muck from the various stables and walkways being transferred....not so simple I don't think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 Fair enough Do they not have "mud and muck" at other centres where such tracks have been built Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,759 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, uneasy said: There is no way an all weather track will be built or even considered other than Riccarton Its a no brainer! Rangiora will finally be closed down as a gallops trial venue as it should be IMO 35 race days a year at Riccarton, trials every fortnight Cost effective with staff, outdoor vans communication, etc Cant see how any other site would be better, just get on with it the sooner the better Pam the few weeks/months building the new track will not be much different when they redid the track previously. Start straight after Cup week how long would it take given that it would be during best weather conditions We didn't expect any other answer from you Michael....... Huey and puha 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: We didn't expect any other answer from you Michael....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 You are correct My opinion/thoughts about certain tracks and an all weather track have been consistently the same for many years I really look forward to one being built at Riccarton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 47 minutes ago, uneasy said: There is no way an all weather track will be built or even considered other than Riccarton Its a no brainer! Rangiora will not be required 35 race days a year at Riccarton, trials every fortnight Cost effective with staff, outdoor vans communication, etc Cant see how any other site would be better, just get on with it the sooner the better Pam the few weeks/months building the new track will not be much different when they redid the track previously. Start straight after Cup week how long would it take given that it would be during best weather conditions I think there needs to be a helluva a lot more analysis and research done than just that it suits a few larger stables yourself included obviously. It needs to be something that is future proof that has a nice blend of whats best for the horse and public at heart and presents a decent product for punters. Not sure what 35 race dates has to do with it , they can easily be transferred to an alternative venue and the staff etc are easily relocatable if its the right venue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 Nothing to do with suiting a "few larger stables" it's more to do with what suits the entire industry, owners trainers jockeys punters a consistent product on a course that can accomodate more trainers/horse numbers and race days An all weather track has to be viable throughout the year not just on race day Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, uneasy said: Nothing to do with suiting a "few larger stables" it's more to do with what suits the entire industry, owners trainers jockeys punters a consistent product on a course that can accomodate more trainers/horse numbers and race days An all weather track has to be viable throughout the year not just on race day Exactly what I've said , doesn't mean that it has to be Riccarton though. The product will go where the facilities are within reason, the industry has been making decisions like this based on what the current situation is without looking towards the future for years and look where its got us. You may be right it may be Riccarton thats the best place to put an AW but I do hope there is some serious analysis and open discussion into deciding that. Not just that a couple of larger stables thought it was a good idea because it suited them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 so where do you think it should go your answer will be interesting or are you just stirring Riccarton is a designated horse recreation facility not owned by the racing club There has already been a lot of discussion going on for at least 10 years that I am aware of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 Riccarton does not race in July , minimal in June and bar GN carnival I think only once in late August. As AWTs started obviously to be all weather to cover frost, snow , rain issues these are our worst months on the mainland therefore it follows other clubs must lose dates in these months to Riccarton to make it pay. Would then Riccarton have to give some dates in return from spring summer or these clubs would wither and die. Across the country this will be replicated so the whole calender will need a total regig. Theres 23 meetings a year at Riccarton but take off 6 at least for GN and Cup carnivals that leaves 17 on AWT at most at moment.Does not seem many for 10 mill outlay plus 100k a year to run . On a nice summer Saturday not best to go out to track and watch them run around middle on the sand separated from them by width of turf track . Been many a time to tracks like that and it isn't great so doubt it will be used much during summer. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 35 meetings a year an extra 12 Red Rum 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Zip 468 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 The UK embraced all weathers tracks, they even have an AWT Winter Championship, it's brilliant, it is a lifesaver for their industry as there is now no need to lay off staff during their flat season hiatus. Over here in Oz, they have more than paved their way, be it QLD and the sunny coast, or VIC and their AWT's at Pakenham and Geelong, they run scheduled meetings as well as being the default track for abandoned meetings...... How to pay, well, lets look at this scenario, NZ with it's archaic and puritanical attitudes to bookmaking is it's own worst enemy, maybe Bet365 Park Riccarton or Rangiora, or Sportsbet Riccarton/Rangiora, by allowing them to build and sponsor the thing for say 20 Years, well, it pays for itself, the people of NZ receive the huge income benefits, the attraction of bookmakers, real bookmakers I mean, not the imposters at Petone, the massive marketing that goes with it, the extra sponsorship opportunities for the many corporates that lay in waiting, the excitement that licensed oncourse bookmakers bring, will bring a new breed of young punter to the races, look at UK and the crowds they are pulling at places like Brighton, and Chester...although Geelong midweek resembles a morgue at times they provide a good reliable surface that the punter invests in.....today at Geelong the fields were good and the revenue good......All it will take is someone to say, enough...lets join the rest of the world......and reap the rewards. Pam Robson, Varro and Aaron Bidlake 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 Absolutely correct they work Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 5 hours ago, uneasy said: There is no way an all weather track will be built or even considered other than Riccarton Its a no brainer! Rangiora will not be required 35 race days a year at Riccarton, trials every fortnight Cost effective with staff, outdoor vans communication, etc Cant see how any other site would be better, just get on with it the sooner the better Pam the few weeks/months building the new track will not be much different when they redid the track previously. Start straight after Cup week how long would it take given that it would be during best weather conditions I like the idea of these tracks but not at the expense of smaller clubs that are self sufficient and financially viable .They would have to work alongside each other .Hopefully axing the RB as we know it and outsourcing the betting side of the industry will release much needed funds. I’d hate to see certain people trying to feather their own nest as usual . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke 1,232 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 I don't know why you South Islanders are so ungrateful After all Nathan Clown, that amazing Minister Of Racing gave gallops an All Weather Track at Addington Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,005 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 Yet to see any figures as to how the industry can afford to maintain one or three, let alone build them. I think it would be political suicide to ask or force the taxpayer to fund them for an industry that currently and for some time has shown it can't sustain itself. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Leggy said: Yet to see any figures as to how the industry can afford to maintain one or three, let alone build them. I think it would be political suicide to ask or force the taxpayer to fund them for an industry that currently and for some time has shown it can't sustain itself. Absolutely correct. I would hope the AWT's are in the context of a re-jig as recommended by JM so the industry can sustain itself. On their own within the current muddy pond, I can't see the income to maintain them....and they certainly won't be any silver bullet in that same mix. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,874 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Pam Robson said: Absolutely correct. I would hope the AWT's are in the context of a re-jig as recommended by JM so the industry can sustain itself. On their own within the current muddy pond, I can't see the income to maintain them....and they certainly won't be any silver bullet in that same mix. Sadly I agree. It will be more wasted money, both to start with and ongoing that we clearly haven’t got. For the last 50 years when racing was much stronger than it is today, when we had more horses in training, when we had a foal crop twice the size it is now we didn’t need them. What we did have 10, 20, 30 and 40 years ago was money invested in track management and maintenance which we don’t have now to the level as back then. When did you last see a track being tapped back, during a raceday? It did happen regularly once upon a time. If we don’t have the money to maintain the current tracks properly, how the hell are going to maintain three AWT’s, which cost a small fortune each year AND need complete replacement within 10 or 12 years? bazach and hedley 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 9 hours ago, puha said: I like the idea of these tracks but not at the expense of smaller clubs that are self sufficient and financially viable .They would have to work alongside each other .Hopefully axing the RB as we know it and outsourcing the betting side of the industry will release much needed funds. I’d hate to see certain people trying to feather their own nest as usual . They won't work alongside the smaller clubs , the smaller clubs will get shafted you can be sure about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 12 hours ago, uneasy said: so where do you think it should go your answer will be interesting or are you just stirring Riccarton is a designated horse recreation facility not owned by the racing club There has already been a lot of discussion going on for at least 10 years that I am aware of Like I've said it may be Riccarton , but surely they have to look at several alternatives and find out whats best , not just because its convenient for the largest SI stable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 Huey Who are you referring to we don't have the largest South Island stable Where else could be considered and why that's a simple question for you to answer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 Awapuni Chief Executive is quoted in one report that he hopes final decision June 2019 , then if alls in place sign off , bridging finance to kick off prior to funding coming through. So even best case it won't be up and running prior to 2020. Time drainage pipes , different layers are put down , then finally test races. I would assume industry leaders will tour the world to find best practice and surface for NZ prior to all that. May I humbly suggest mid January Monday meeting at Southwell or Lingfield Park UK , take a warm hat, gloves and scarf , a warm beer goes down well on those days of minus degrees plus windchill in early afternoon. Would all three be built same time as that could push it out at Riccarton quite some years. Overall though I'd be happy to have a share in bread butter all weather performer trained on track. It must keep costs down training wise re travel and regular starts on track in town does appeal to me. La Zip 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Zip 468 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 Spoken like a true Pom RR, loved those winter nights at ''Suth-all''......beanie, scarf, two coats, gloves, and the warm beer......backed a few winners though, and had the chance to, as if the same weather was in NZ the meetings would have been canned, so jocks, owners, trainers and staff all benefited, plus the punters of course.......in 10 years they will be saying 'why didn't we do this earlier'......and the flow ons will be immeasurable ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted July 20, 2018 22 minutes ago, La Zip said: Spoken like a true Pom RR, loved those winter nights at ''Suth-all''......beanie, scarf, two coats, gloves, and the warm beer......backed a few winners though, and had the chance to, as if the same weather was in NZ the meetings would have been canned, so jocks, owners, trainers and staff all benefited, plus the punters of course.......in 10 years they will be saying 'why didn't we do this earlier'......and the flow ons will be immeasurable ! LZ , Hahaha yeah bloody cold days at races back in old country. As shift worker I always found it a real treat, wife off to work on a cold winter Monday , id be on rest day,prior to kids , I'd fire up the 1 litre muscle car Rover Metro , take my chances round the M25 and over QE2 bridge and into leafy Lingfield for day of all weather. Good thing with it is form seems to play out. Just find the old gelding that's gravitated down to its right mark in the handicap and unload hoping it runs it's race. Same horses year in year out. I loved Rapporteur at Lingfield and Tempering at Southwell. Late 80s early 90s both won around 20 races on their favorite tracks. Fibresand Southwell totally different to polytrack Lingfield .Most go on one or other but not many go well on both it seems. La Zip 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted July 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Red Rum said: ...... I would assume industry leaders will tour the world to find best practice and surface for NZ prior to all that. You would like to think so, R.R....but past experience suggests probably not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...