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Pike runners scratched!

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26 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

Pre race treatment offence. Ozzie rules different than NZ . Pike was fined $500 and both his horses scratched.

 

Not correct apparently same rules apply in NZ   .

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13 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

Yep they do.

Stewards are more,  shall we say,  on the ball there?

Sure I heard Popperwell say on tv yesterday that a stipe told him that Pikey would have been OK in NZ .     It might have been Oatham but not 100 % sure.     What gives?  How can you interpret the same rule different ??

 

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This sounds like a technical issue which the likes of leggy/leo might be able to sort out re respective rules.

Either way my original reply was correct.  Horses  were scratched due to pre race treatments according to Stewards  report

 

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36 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

The Australian rule is slightly different to NZ in that it applies to all drugs or therapies / alkalinising agents.

NZTR amended our rule recently so we now have a FULL clear day prior to the day of the trial or race, that means midnight Thursday is cut off for a Saturday for alkalinising agents, NOTE specifically alkalinising agents.

Using that interpretation Pikey appears to have transgressed under the rules of both countries.

I’d just say three things though.

1) Vets can still use such therapies ( call me Pikey :) , I can help )

2) I didn’t actually understand the exact timelines of the amended rule and had to seek clarification myself so it’s fair to say there’s confusion out there.

3) those OTC alkalinising agents are an absolute waste of time and money and any mug who gives those outside say 3 hours of racing is ignorant, needs to get some good scientific advice, and is wasting their owner’s money.

My verdict, Pikey is in the wrong but it’s very minor, the lower end of the lower end of the scale, with mitigating circumstances, and it’s not possible that he’s enhancing his horse’s performance one single inch.

He’d get the exact same results sprinkling them with hundreds and thousands or holy water.

p4p can you tell me what Pikey might have been giving the pre-race treatment' on race day for  ...are we talking some kind of balm for a minor bruise/swelling/cut? A liquid? And given the fact that he's campaigned in Qsld before, why didn't he know the rules? Perhaps the treatment was applied by someone else in the stable and he gets the rap? It does sound like a very minor transgression.

 

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10 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

It was Neutrolene Plus according to the steward’s report.
https://www.ranvet.com.au/products/neutrolene-plus/

That’s an alkalinising agent, it neutralises lactic acid ( any acid actually ).

You could use that therapeutically ( in recovery ) or prophylactically ( before an event that's likely to involve anaerobic respiration ).

It would have zero effect if he used it at 5am the day before the races as has been described, that’s ZERO.

This is a mountain being made out of a molehill, typically by the paranoid or the ignorant ( from other toxic sites ) IMO.

 

brilliant explanation thanks...why would he have used it at that time?

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The only reason I asked the question was that I thought it must have been due to something as described above. They weren't scratched by the 7:30am deadline, and I was at the track sipping on a champers with 7 lovely ladies around me, when it was announced around 11:30am. Id put them both in my exotics for a place! 

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7 hours ago, poundforpound said:

He’d get the exact same results sprinkling them with hundreds and thousands or holy water.

I thought you'd have recommended feeding them a few lemons or limes, instead of hundreds and thousands, though the latter might temper any bitterness.

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3 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

I think ( given your scientific knowledge ) you’d agree that the real crime here is that Pikey, or any intelligent trainer ( is that an oxymoron ?) , would bother to buy and use Neutrolene or any generic version of that type of therapeutic agent.

Have they no brains, or too much money, or both ?

some people probably think citrate is a substitute for bi carb  also some people dont have a degree in vet science and believe in whats written in the marketing material

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Whatever happened to just good old fashioned.....Grass, Oats and Exercise? :blink: My grandfather was anti needles or any substance being administered by vets or otherwise!.....

Although that was probably as much to do with the "bills" received by them after any medical treatments. :lol:

Old School ! :)

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29 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

I think ( given your scientific knowledge ) you’d agree that the real crime here is that Pikey, or any intelligent trainer ( is that an oxymoron ?) , would bother to buy and use Neutrolene or any generic version of that type of therapeutic agent.

Have they no brains, or too much money, or both ?

Don't know really. I think the real crime though is that the rules have blatantly been broken and the penalty mitigated by misleading the Queensland stewards.

I agree with your other post though, that if you are are going to cheat with alkilinisers, you need to do it on race-day and whether you are using lemons or scones, you need to get it straight to the guts.

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If Neutrolene Plus is a waste of money then why did Percy Sykes invent it.

I think he was a fair sort of Equine Vet.

I would also assume at least 12 Melbourne Cup winners were administered it and I remember we did an advertising campaign after Green Moon won the Cup.

Neutrolene Plus and Power Formula.

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2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Waste of money as a performance enhancer.

As you know Robert this industry is full of sham products designed to seduce the gullible, typically amino acids and most water soluble preps ( although VB12 has proved to be a bit of a smoking gun !! ).

Don't get too carried away with Percy, science and detection techniques have moved forward a long way since Ranvet was peddling all manner of ‘roids’ 

 

Jeepers that was a long time ago and Percy was an amazing equine veterinarian. He also introduced the idea of blood testing horses I think. When he invented Neutrolene, it made sense because it was known that citrates and bicarb probably buffered lactic acid. I seriously doubt that he would have promoted or even been selling it today. He was a scientist. Since the day he invented it (when was that?) to this day, no evidence has emerged that citrates administered at that level have ANY impact on performance as far as I know. They may raise TCO2 a shade.

 

That said, I'm not fully up to date on this, so if you or Robert have recent research contradicting this view, please advise.

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