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B De Lore on the Messara appointment

80 posts in this topic

27 minutes ago, La Zip said:

If Ian McKelvie is now the Nats racing spokesperson,  and is apparently a well connected and well versed racing man, why is it only now that he has voiced an opinion? If he has the answers to extract our ailing industry from further misery, why did he not come out prior (last 9 years) with a plan? Unfortunately all I see is political opportunism....which garners mistrust in many of us.

whilst many contributors to this forum are decidedly suspicious of JM, I can empathise....believe me, I do...but if only half of what he has identified can be implemented, then we’re a bit further down the resurrection path...otherwise our industry is not sustainable in its current form. As I have mentioned several times on this forum, Miss Aderns “colours nailed to the mast” agenda is child poverty...and racing is not going to get that pokie money over shoeless kids...

 

 

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McKelvie was named as the National Party candidate for the Rangitīkei electorate following the announcement by sitting member Simon Power of his retirement from politics.[4] At the 2011 election, McKelvie won the seat with a majority of 9,382 ahead of Labour's Josie Pagani.[5] He currently serves on three select committees: primary production; regulations review; and law and order.[6] McKelvie was re-elected in the Rangitīkei electorate during the 2014 New Zealand General Election with an increased majority.[cit

 

I know it’s hard to comprehend for some La Zip but he’s only just been appointed National’s Racing spokesperson ( do they still have shadow Ministers ?) since this latest minority coalition took over.

Are you suggesting he should’ve been issuing media statements about other Minister’s portfolios previously ?

 

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21 minutes ago, La Zip said:

Further to my post, where I say believe me, here in Australia, JM has had many knockers over the years due to him being very, very successful and where the Aussie tall poppy syndrome prevails. if JM’s knockers could match half of his achievements, they would only be a fraction of the way to his level of success! 

I do hope he is being paid an amount commensurate with his track record! 

Single code, and underpinned by two things, an appetite for gambling, and regional / state government intervention and assistance.

Can you help me understand how either or any of the above will apply in NZ ?

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I just thought of another major issue looming for racing.

Politics is cyclical, that’s a fact, and as sure as night follows Day National will replace this dysfunctional Labour coalition.

Meantime Dr Lance O’Sullivan, “NZer of the year” and a very good man, extremely charismatic and intelligent with a great social conscience, is being groomed  to lead a Maori Party coalition with National, or to take a major leadership role in the National Party, possibly as leader.

O’Sullivan is conmitted to abolishing pokies so you can presume the industry is in for quite some setback when the Nats are re-elected, and it’s not helped by the ranting of Winston and Brian de Lore......

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7 hours ago, poundforpound said:

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McKelvie was named as the National Party candidate for the Rangitīkei electorate following the announcement by sitting member Simon Power of his retirement from politics.[4] At the 2011 election, McKelvie won the seat with a majority of 9,382 ahead of Labour's Josie Pagani.[5] He currently serves on three select committees: primary production; regulations review; and law and order.[6] McKelvie was re-elected in the Rangitīkei electorate during the 2014 New Zealand General Election with an increased majority.[cit

 

I know it’s hard to comprehend for some La Zip but he’s only just been appointed National’s Racing spokesperson ( do they still have shadow Ministers ?) since this latest minority coalition took over.

Are you suggesting he should’ve been issuing media statements about other Minister’s portfolios previously ?

 

What I don’t understand if Mr McKelvie has such an interest in thoroughbred racing it seems he has had very little impact on putting his views forward within the Nats party room.  The efforts of the preceding racing minister/s have left this industry in a dire way and he has not pulled a few coat tails within the room to say he can offer THE solution? Just what our industry needs PFP another politician who now espouses a solution after sitting on his hands since 2011...not a lot of credibility in that, wouldn’t you say? 

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Pound for Pound has questioned the success of Ra Ora during Brian De Lore’s tenure as General Manager and also the success of their stallions subsequent to the sale back from Arrowfield to the Fisher family .

Ra Ora stood champion sires Famous Star, Nassipour and Straight Strike during the Fisher owned period. In fact the Stud achieved a famous first when they stood the Champion Sire of Australia and the Champion Sire of NZ at the same time. So the stud has certainly achieved milestones during De Lore’s management time.

So let’s get our facts correct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Single code, and underpinned by two things, an appetite for gambling, and regional / state government intervention and assistance.

Can you help me understand how either or any of the above will apply in NZ ?

OK - the most successful racing jurisdictions in the world are France & Japan... both parimutuel....so tell me why their models cannot be scaled to NZ...of course, the most obvious solution is to license bookmakers...and if that is unpalatable for the electorate to swallow, it’s either that or a once successful, export revenue generating, employment generating, tax generating industry will go the way of the dinosaur....extinct! 

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19 minutes ago, La Zip said:

OK - the most successful racing jurisdictions in the world are France & Japan... both parimutuel....so tell me why their models cannot be scaled to NZ...of course, the most obvious solution is to license bookmakers...and if that is unpalatable for the electorate to swallow, it’s either that or a once successful, export revenue generating, employment generating, tax generating industry will go the way of the dinosaur....extinct! 

Just remind me of the respective populations of the three jurisdictions, not to mention that the production costs in the two others are not relevant because they’re driven by those with discretionary income.

As for becoming dinasours, some amongst us have been warning you of the impending doom for many years, but I remember being told I was an alarmist and trouble maker by two or three high profile members of the racing fraternity ( from Cambridge ) a couple of years ago, well about 6 years ago actually.

Funnily enough they’ve all come back to me recently and said “you were right, we were wrong “, and now the bad news, it’s going to get a lot worse, the model is unsustainable in it’s current form and as long as the ignorant subscribe to these delusional dreams ( like an alcoholic saying let’s have just one more drink ) we cannot and will not fix the problems.

WTF you’d even allow people with no grass roots practical racing experience to run head office defies all common sense and logic so I guess you’re getting what you deserve, now you may as well bend over and enjoy it.

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2 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Just remind me of the respective populations of the three jurisdictions, not to mention that the production costs in the two others are not relevant because they’re driven by those with discretionary income.

As for becoming dinasours, some amongst us have been warning you of the impending doom for many years, but I remember being told I was an alarmist and trouble maker by two or three high profile members of the racing fraternity ( from Cambridge ) a couple of years ago, well about 6 years ago actually.

Funnily enough they’ve all come back to me recently and said “you were right, we were wrong “, and now the bad news, it’s going to get a lot worse, the model is unsustainable in it’s current form and as long as the ignorant subscribe to these delusional dreams ( like an alcoholic saying let’s have just one more drink ) we cannot and will not fix the problems.

WTF you’d even allow people with no grass roots practical racing experience to run head office defies all common sense and logic so I guess you’re getting what you deserve, now you may as well bend over and enjoy it.

PFP I think you are generalising because you haven’t been warning me...I have known for many years (& espoused so to our local racing community) the model is unsustainable but like you I’ve continued to support the local industry by racing a number of horses spread amongst several trainers. I did this at my peril however I very much respect the grass root trainers who are well aware of the limitations  they face on a daily basis which overrides the realities they/we face.

There is no way I want to see anyone at HO running our industry who doesn’t have grass roots /Hands on experience but as you very well know that is never going to happen because those who appoint administrative leaders are never held accountable. 

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1 hour ago, WOODBINE said:

Pound for Pound has questioned the success of Ra Ora during Brian De Lore’s tenure as General Manager and also the success of their stallions subsequent to the sale back from Arrowfield to the Fisher family .

Ra Ora stood champion sires Famous Star, Nassipour and Straight Strike during the Fisher owned period. In fact the Stud achieved a famous first when they stood the Champion Sire of Australia and the Champion Sire of NZ at the same time. So the stud has certainly achieved milestones during De Lore’s management time.

So let’s get our facts correct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree 100%. It’s amazing the way people try to say the opposite just because they go into print first!

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48 minutes ago, Insider said:

Agree 100%. It’s amazing the way people try to say the opposite just because they go into print first!

I asked Brian to elaborate because the only horse I could think of was Straight Strike, but I knew Ra Ora was publicly listed, then taken over by Arrowfield ( Messara ), then brought back by the Fishers, but dispersed when Noel ???? was running the show.

The truth is it was a flop and was driven into oblivion wasn’t it, like most of the publicly listed breeding operations, eg Waikato, Trelawney, Blandford, Troy Corporation, and others....but you wankers can pretend otherwise if it helps your silly fucking delusions 

FYI I wasn’t asking about the stud under the Fisher or Fisher trust management, I was asking about the de Lore and Arrrowfield period of control.

 

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28 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

I asked Brian to elaborate because the only horse I could think of was Straight Strike, but I knew Ra Ora was publicly listed, then taken over by Arrowfield ( Messara ), then brought back by the Fishers, but dispersed when Noel ???? was running the show.

The truth is it was a flop and was driven into oblivion wasn’t it, like most of the publicly listed breeding operations, eg Waikato, Trelawney, Blandford, Troy Corporation, and others....but you wankers can pretend otherwise if it helps your silly fucking delusions 

FYI I wasn’t asking about the stud under the Fisher or Fisher trust management, I was asking about the de Lore and Arrrowfield period of control.

 

Straight Strike was never anywhere near the place. Famous Star (of which I was a shareholder) Nassipour and the failure Sackford were there under auspices of Brian De Lore. What’s more he purchased Rolls too in his time there. If you don’t know who Rolls was, look her up. 

Talking about Noel, the less said the better.

P.S. I had horses in partnership with Ra Ora thoughout this later period right up into the finial dispersal. 

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Just now, Insider said:

Straight Strike was never anywhere near the place. Famous Star (of which I was a shareholder) Nassipour and the failure Sackford were there under auspices of Brian De Lore. What’s more he purchased Rolls too in his time there. If you don’t know who Rolls was, look her up. 

Talking about Noel, the less said the better.

P.S. I had horses in partnership with Ra Ora thoughout this later period right up into the finial dispersal. 

Hence I’m asking, I can’t remember which stallion stood where, and as for Nassipour and Sackford, spare me, they’re both very average sires although a Nassipour did sire two champions.

My inference based on my fading memory is that Arrowfield, Messara and BdL we’re largely failures at Ra Ora ( is that correct because if it is WTF are we hoping they’re the white knights now ? )

What was Noel’s surname ?

 

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

Hence I’m asking, I can’t remember which stallion stood where, and as for Nassipour and Sackford, spare me, they’re both very average sires although a Nassipour did sire two champions.

My inference based on my fading memory is that Arrowfield, Messara and BdL we’re largely failures at Ra Ora ( is that correct because if it is WTF are we hoping they’re the white knights now ? )

What was Noel’s surname ?

 

Presume you mean Noel Robinson who was Chairman...?

They had Pharamond and Sovereign Edition initially, then Stunning, Imposing, Nassipour, Famous Star, Straight Strike and Desert Sun, and a number of shuttle stallions later on.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ohokaman said:

Presume you mean Noel Robinson who was Chairman...?

They had Pharamond and Sovereign Edition initially, then Stunning, Imposing, Nassipour, Famous Star, Straight Strike and Desert Sun, and a number of shuttle stallions later on.

 

 

 

Marju and Soviet Star were there towards the end. 

I always thought that Straight Strike stood at Allegro Park in Cambridge.

 

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3 hours ago, Insider said:

Marju and Soviet Star were there towards the end. 

I always thought that Straight Strike stood at Allegro Park in Cambridge.

 

We’re getting distracted.

Given that you were so close to the action Liz how about you just tell us what Messara did whilst at Ra Ora.

Let’s keep to three things we can fairly measure him by, and you expand on those for us.

Company share price.

Stallion roster and resulting breed shapers.

Champions bred by the farm.

Thanks.

 

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12 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

A bit rich saying "off topic."  The only reason I can think to explain your lame attempt to discredit Mesara and De Lore is you have aligned yourself with the wrong team.  Tell us what Te Akau and NZBS have done to bring about lasting change to the industry?  While you are at it tell us what you have done? 

None of those you’ve mentioned are being touted as the savior of NZ Racing 

It’s not my job to critique Te Akau or NZBS for you, but if you don’t know what each has contributed to this industry that rather sums you up.

One of the two has of course funded the only means by which most licensees have survived, trading in unraced horses, but given your circumstances you wouldn’t have ever enjoyed their support.

BTW it’s de Lore, small “d”, be nice and show him some respect, and while I’ve got you Felaar has put on 30+ kg and he’ll be back in work very soon, and I’m told by the owners that Consensus is very well and she’s off to catch a few rays in Queensland, and maybe grab some expenses in the Hollindale and Doomben Cup, weather dependent of course.

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Holy moly....what's stallions got to do with whether or not Messara is good or bad for the industry? And what of Brian? I personally don't give a rats arse as to whether Brian could choose stallions. All I do know is that our industry has been stuffed up by consecutive bureaucracies who have continued to get people with very little or no knowledge or ability to run the show. All I know is that the bleating on this sites theme has been one of out cry in respect of these escalating costs and inappropriate appointments. So now Messara, a person who without doubt, is one of the most successful stud masters, in arguably a more competitive environment, who has already crafted a get out of jail free card for NSW racing, who is independent, and willing to attempt to sort the mess out, and whose appointment is being criticised!?!?! Are you kidding?!?!

it is common knowledge that Brian was the tipping point to this appointment. Is Brian doing the assessment? No. So why the bashing? 

Makes me laugh when you've got blokes like Chittick senior getting involved looking for a part in the play. He was one of the most inept leaders during his time as chairman of the NZRB. 

Lets not bash a chance at this early stage

 

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Berri you’re missing the point.

Messara is a major breeder, he comes from a country where gambling is massive, and all his recent credits are a result of state government intervention and assistance ( orchestrated by JM )

HTF can you translate that to NZ ? any more than you’d get an orthodontist to treat a fractured tibia 

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3 hours ago, poundforpound said:

We’re getting distracted.

Given that you were so close to the action Liz how about you just tell us what Messara did whilst at Ra Ora.

Let’s keep to three things we can fairly measure him by, and you expand on those for us.

Company share price.

Stallion roster and resulting breed shapers.

Champions bred by the farm.

Thanks.

 

Did Arrowfield own the place for that long ? If memory serves they took over in the early 80s, and the Fisher Estate bought it back sometime in the late 80's didn't they ? I've already posted the Stallions they had....shuttle stallions included Last Tycoon, Carnegie, Groom Dancer, Soviet Star, Housebuster and Bigstone. Apart from LT, hardly a successful bunch.

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I think that the key paragraph to be read from BdL's article is the following quote: < "Any questions will have to be answered by Winston Peters and not by me. I can’t say anything about the project – my report has to be to him and nobody else.”>.                    So really, he is only going to "REVIEW" then "Recommend a Strategy" to WP.                               The first thing I thought when reading this was that the Minister for Racing in NZ has No Confidence in NZRB. The second thing was that he's asking for an opinion from a very experienced Racing person in Oz - because of his lack of confidence in Petone.      The question is, "When he gets the report from JM, what will he do with it and what will the govt allow him to do - especially if it involves changes to the Racing Act, taxes, betting etc ?" Plenty of reports are written these days but how many are acted upon? JM won't be the problem.....

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Tend to agree Trump

My issues are largely that Messara is not the Messiah, this is NZ not Australia, and if we’re going to use any Australian expert I’d get one from WA as they use the same tricode model we do ( don’t they ?) 

Winnie can’t act anyway as the Greens and Labour won’t support him on any unilateral action that favours racing, especially TB racing.

He’s also hamstrung with regard to changing The Racing Act for the reasons discussed previously.

On that basis this should be seen as “just buying time” to appease the ignorant, and it’s almost certain nothing useful will come of it.

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5 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Tend to agree Trump

My issues are largely that Messara is not the Messiah, this is NZ not Australia, and if we’re going to use any Australian expert I’d get one from WA as they use the same tricode model we do ( don’t they ?) 

Winnie can’t act anyway as the Greens and Labour won’t support him on any unilateral action that favours racing, especially TB racing.

He’s also hamstrung with regard to changing The Racing Act for the reasons discussed previously.

On that basis this should be seen as “just buying time” to appease the ignorant, and it’s almost certain nothing useful will come of it.

This is one of the 2  key points which Messara wil have plenty to say about and im suspecting it will be in a very negative. The other is the NZRB out of control costs. Winston's only doing this to give him the opportunity to make some real changes to the game.

I reckon if i worked at the NZRB i would be looking at the redundancy clause in my employment contract cos i suggest many jobs wil likely go from there. As for the rest of the report it could be  a case each sector goes its own way which im sure will be of no benefit to the Harness or Dog codes.

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You may be right. But I think that given his past experience with NSW and Aust Racing and what has been done, his Report on his take on NZ Racing will make interesting reading. It won't be a hard job for him. A bit like someone like Sir Colin Giltrap advising a Used Car Dealer in Tokoroa how to run a successful Used Car Lot - shouldnt be hard :) However, it's the response to the Report that will be interesting. Q. Why doesn't the Minister just come out and say he has commissioned JM to do this Report, due to his complete lack of confidence in The NZRB and it's Executive to do it? 

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Attention Sacked Australian Racing Administrators:

HAVE YOU GOT WHAT IT TAKES TO JOIN THE CURRENT NZ RACING ADMIN TEAM?

Welcome to this year's Racing public service exam.

I see that all of you have been able to find yourself a seat and desk so obviously you've got what it takes to be public servants.

Should you pass this exam and become a member of the public service, you will enjoy not only the esteem and envy of all your friends but also a unique package of fringe benefits, including:
* An early retirement scheme which allows you to retire while still turning up for work
* flexitime which enables you to decide when you don't want to work at work and when you don't want to work away from work
* free use of government stationery (this has been facilitated by the introduction of eight-items-or-less lanes as you leave the building.

I must at this stage warn all examinees that anyone found cheating or copying from their neighbour's paper will be automatically assigned to Petone - regardless of whether they fail the intelligence test ... ESPECIALLY if they fail the intelligence test..

MATHEMATICS:

Please answer the following question in the spaces provided on your answer sheet.

If you went to lunch at 12 noon and came back to work at 2:30pm how long have you had for lunch?
The answer of course is half an hour.

For those who failed the maths test, you may still be eligible to become Mr Howard's tax policy adviser.

MULTIPLE CHOICE:

1. If you are about to take your lunch break and a female member of the general public comes with an enquiry, you should address her by saying:
a) Can I help you, madam?
B)Can I help you, miss?
c) What can I do you for, mate?
d) How's tricks, doll-face

The correct answer is 'none of the above'. This is a trick question. If you are about to take your lunch break, you shouldn't talk to her at all.

2. If a member of the general public phones up with a complaint and you realize that the file on this matter has been lost. You should say:
a) We are looking into the matter
B) Can I get back to you on this one?
c) The matters have been referred to another committee
d) I haven't had a chance to look into it yet.

The correct answer is that you should tell them that they have the wrong telephone extension.

SPELLING:

Spell the following words
a) Tea
B) Sickie
c) Lunchbreak
d) Go-slow

This is the end of the examination.Please sign your exam paper illegibly and pass it to those collecting them, while denying that you have ever seen or heard anything about it.

GUIDE TO PERFORMANCE APPRAISALS:

GREAT PRESENTATION SKILLS = Able to bullshit
GOOD COMMUNICATION SKILLS = Spends a lot of time on the phone
AVERAGE EMPLOYEE = Not too bright
EXCEPTIONALLY WELL QUALIFIED = Made no major blunders yet
WORK IS FIRST PRIORITY = Too ugly to get a date
ACTIVE SOCIALLY = Drinks a lot
FAMILY IS ACTIVE SOCIALLY = Spouse drinks, too
INDEPENDENT WORKER = Nobody knows what he/she does
QUICK THINKING = Offers plausible excuses
CAREFUL THINKER = Wont make a decision
AGGRESSIVE = Obnoxious
USES LOGIC ON DIFFICULT JOBS = Gets someone else to do it
EXPRESSES THEMSELVES WELL = Speaks English
METICULOUS ATTENTION TO DETAIL = A nit picker
HAS LEADERSHIP QUALITIES = Is tall or has a loud voice
EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD JUDGEMENT = Lucky
KEEN SENSE OF HUMOUR = Knows a lot of dirty jokes
CAREER MINDED = Back Stabber
LOYAL = Can't get a job anywhere else
 
Read 6260 times Last modified on Thursday, 07 February 2013 01:32

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1 hour ago, Trump said:

You may be right. But I think that given his past experience with NSW and Aust Racing and what has been done, his Report on his take on NZ Racing will make interesting reading. It won't be a hard job for him. A bit like someone like Sir Colin Giltrap advising a Used Car Dealer in Tokoroa how to run a successful Used Car Lot - shouldnt be hard :) However, it's the response to the Report that will be interesting. Q. Why doesn't the Minister just come out and say he has commissioned JM to do this Report, due to his complete lack of confidence in The NZRB and it's Executive to do it? 

Doesn't have the cojones Trumpy....he might after he gets the report.....:rolleyes:

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