Ohokaman

Chautauqua....has he had enough....???

122 posts in this topic

Been fascinated to read all the comments on social media about why he won't come out of the gates. We spent a lot of last winter puzzling a similar thing with one of our horses. She loves working. Loves Racing & is 100% fit, healthy, happy & in no pain. But took to getting slower & slower away. We tried a few gear changes & they didn't work. Everyone else seemed to get super stressed at the gates wanting her to jump & she got 1000% worse! Once we pusuaded everyone to just back off & leave her be, she decided to jump out again. Though it's still on her terms & I'd never bet on what she's going to do. She's very strong minded & likes very set routine. If anything isn't to her liking then she's not happy. Sometimes you just have to accept that you can't control everything. Chautauqua looks like the kind of horse that knows his own mind & will definitely have the final word on the subject.

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I tend to agree.  He didn't look unhappy in his recent "outings" and I'm sure a vet(s) has been all over him.

Have they tried schooling him over jumps?

Send him to Dummy and he'd clean up every Open sprint in the country carrying 80kg.

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1 hour ago, Pegasus 9 said:

It would be a tragedy to see the horse retired when he has so much to offer"

Rupert Legh on Chautauqua
 
Chautauqua owner not giving up despite latest trial mishap

This is really starting to piss me off. The horse is now 7 years old, has competed at the highest level, winning 13 races and amassing $A8.8m in stakes. "So much to offer.." Really...??  He has now failed to jump on five separate occasions.....anyone can see he does not want to be there anymore.

Just retire him now. Or is the temptation of The Everest riches too much for you ???

He deserves a long and happy retirement. Don't continue on until he breaks down.

Anything else will just smack of greed...and provide further ammunition for the anti-racing brigade.

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

This is really starting to piss me off. The horse is now 7 years old, has competed at the highest level, winning 13 races and amassing $A8.8m in stakes. "So much to offer.." Really...??  He has now failed to jump on five separate occasions.....anyone can see he does not want to be there anymore.

Just retire him now. Or is the temptation of The Everest riches too much for you ???

He deserves a long and happy retirement. Don't continue on until he breaks down.

Anything else will just smack of greed...and provide further ammunition for the anti-racing brigade.

You don’t think the owners of the beautiful old horse, Survive, would gladly swap positions with Rupert Leagh?  You think they don’t regret “not listening” to him trying to tell them he’d had enough....some owners don’t deserve the lovely horses they have been given...

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Just now, La Zip said:

You don’t think the owners of the beautiful old horse, Survive, would gladly swap positions with Rupert Leagh?  You think they don’t regret “not listening” to him trying to tell them he’d had enough....some owners don’t deserve the lovely horses they have been given...

Sorry, I mean they regret...

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I was lucky enough to be at Flemington when Chautauqua won the Gilgai Stakes in 2014 .I thought he is  obviously classy but didn't realise at time I'd been lucky enough to see a dead set champion.

If he were mine no decision he would have been retired second time he refused. First time I reckon off day , second time that be it 8.8 mill in bank , get best people in to prepare him for life outside racing and make damn sure he's happy, safe and healthy.He has  taken them international and won big.

I suppose if you have a hard nosed business approach and they are just cash tills it's harder to give up on a champ (not saying connections see it like this but just could be seen like this). Weighing the plus and minus of it  no emotion why with 8.8 mill banked , having brought your slot in Everest would you risk turning up on  big day dressed to the  nines with family and friends howng into the owners free feed and booze would you risk the embarrassment of champ standing dead still in stalls .Or worse jumping then although unlikely breaking down. The press won't make it easy , questions would be asked.Day ruined and people wont forget it.Purely business  surely better give the family a great day out cheering on an entrant I'd negotiated a stake in for race .

I think most people who follow racing for few years realise theres plenty of gunna be a champ but very very few Champions, he's one.

 

 

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5 hours ago, La Zip said:

You don’t think the owners of the beautiful old horse, Survive, would gladly swap positions with Rupert Leagh?  You think they don’t regret “not listening” to him trying to tell them he’d had enough....some owners don’t deserve the lovely horses they have been given...

That is so sad about Survived.  Did not deserve that ending.  Lovely horse and RIP.

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There are ample tests available to ascertain the state of his physical health, and presumably they’ve been done by team Hawkes.

Without any knowledge of the problem you must presume this is behavioral, and then the questions are

1) is he trying to protect himself from something ?, for example a kissing lesion on the dorsal processes of the spine that only hurts when he hyper-extends ( as in jumping out of the barrier from a cold start ) Those sort of problems can be fixed by a decent vet.

Then there’s

2) is he just so wily and so learned now that he correlates extreme competition with pain, as in anaerobic pain.

Number 2 is probably much harder to diagnose and fix because it’s clearly a mental thing.

I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t continue as a racehorse, but I will say that whilst I’d retire him I accept that it’s their prerogative to try again, and if he has a catastrophic no fair person should attribute the blame to them in the absence of compelling evidence of some form of neglect due to a lack of thoroughness.

My treatment regime, a prophylactic drug regime for bone related conditions in conjunction with a reward based programme for when he behaves appropriately.....and never let a jockey hit him again.....

Thank me later team Hawke’s.

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

There are ample tests available to ascertain the state of his physical health, and presumably they’ve been done by team Hawkes.

Without any knowledge of the problem you must presume this is behavioral, and then the questions are

1) is he trying to protect himself from something ?, for example a kissing lesion on the dorsal processes of the spine that only hurts when he hyper-extends ( as in jumping out of the barrier from a cold start ) Those sort of problems can be fixed by a decent vet.

Then there’s

2) is he just so wily and so learned now that he correlates extreme competition with pain, as in anaerobic pain.

Number 2 is probably much harder to diagnose and fix because it’s clearly a mental thing.

I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t continue as a racehorse, but I will say that whilst I’d retire him I accept that it’s their prerogative to try again, and if he has a catastrophic no fair person should attribute the blame to them in the absence of compelling evidence of some form of neglect due to a lack of thoroughness.

My treatment regime, a prophylactic drug regime for bone related conditions in conjunction with a reward based programme for when he behaves appropriately.....and never let a jockey hit him again.....

Thank me later team Hawke’s.

Interesting though that in the Flemington jump out he went away, but back in Sydney he didn't. 

Is there something about those specific barriers he has a problem with, or bad memory from...?

According to Hawkes he's not in pain ( how he knows that not sure ) and Berry said he felt the same both times.

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2 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

Interesting though that in the Flemington jump out he went away, but back in Sydney he didn't. 

Is there something about those specific barriers he has a problem with, or bad memory from...?

According to Hawkes he's not in pain ( how he knows that not sure ) and Berry said he felt the same both times.

As I said he might be 100% pain free until he does a certain thing with his body.

It’s treatable.

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

As I said he might be 100% pain free until he does a certain thing with his body.

It’s treatable.

remember he was kicked behind the barriers i think at moonee valley could it be mental issue

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

Interesting though that in the Flemington jump out he went away, but back in Sydney he didn't. 

 

In Melbourne he was placed in the outside gate, last in and was still walking in as the gates were released. Probably thought he was walking in to the swab box. Stood for a bit in Sydney and berry said he knew he wasn't going to jump.

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2 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

In Melbourne he was placed in the outside gate, last in and was still walking in as the gates were released. Probably thought he was walking in to the swab box. Stood for a bit in Sydney and berry said he knew he wasn't going to jump.

Needs a Mobile start Chevy.....;)

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