RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Ohokaman

Chautauqua....has he had enough....???

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I tend to agree.  He didn't look unhappy in his recent "outings" and I'm sure a vet(s) has been all over him.

Have they tried schooling him over jumps?

Send him to Dummy and he'd clean up every Open sprint in the country carrying 80kg.

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1 hour ago, Pegasus 9 said:

It would be a tragedy to see the horse retired when he has so much to offer"

Rupert Legh on Chautauqua
 
Chautauqua owner not giving up despite latest trial mishap

This is really starting to piss me off. The horse is now 7 years old, has competed at the highest level, winning 13 races and amassing $A8.8m in stakes. "So much to offer.." Really...??  He has now failed to jump on five separate occasions.....anyone can see he does not want to be there anymore.

Just retire him now. Or is the temptation of The Everest riches too much for you ???

He deserves a long and happy retirement. Don't continue on until he breaks down.

Anything else will just smack of greed...and provide further ammunition for the anti-racing brigade.

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

This is really starting to piss me off. The horse is now 7 years old, has competed at the highest level, winning 13 races and amassing $A8.8m in stakes. "So much to offer.." Really...??  He has now failed to jump on five separate occasions.....anyone can see he does not want to be there anymore.

Just retire him now. Or is the temptation of The Everest riches too much for you ???

He deserves a long and happy retirement. Don't continue on until he breaks down.

Anything else will just smack of greed...and provide further ammunition for the anti-racing brigade.

You don’t think the owners of the beautiful old horse, Survive, would gladly swap positions with Rupert Leagh?  You think they don’t regret “not listening” to him trying to tell them he’d had enough....some owners don’t deserve the lovely horses they have been given...

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Just now, La Zip said:

You don’t think the owners of the beautiful old horse, Survive, would gladly swap positions with Rupert Leagh?  You think they don’t regret “not listening” to him trying to tell them he’d had enough....some owners don’t deserve the lovely horses they have been given...

Sorry, I mean they regret...

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I was lucky enough to be at Flemington when Chautauqua won the Gilgai Stakes in 2014 .I thought he is  obviously classy but didn't realise at time I'd been lucky enough to see a dead set champion.

If he were mine no decision he would have been retired second time he refused. First time I reckon off day , second time that be it 8.8 mill in bank , get best people in to prepare him for life outside racing and make damn sure he's happy, safe and healthy.He has  taken them international and won big.

I suppose if you have a hard nosed business approach and they are just cash tills it's harder to give up on a champ (not saying connections see it like this but just could be seen like this). Weighing the plus and minus of it  no emotion why with 8.8 mill banked , having brought your slot in Everest would you risk turning up on  big day dressed to the  nines with family and friends howng into the owners free feed and booze would you risk the embarrassment of champ standing dead still in stalls .Or worse jumping then although unlikely breaking down. The press won't make it easy , questions would be asked.Day ruined and people wont forget it.Purely business  surely better give the family a great day out cheering on an entrant I'd negotiated a stake in for race .

I think most people who follow racing for few years realise theres plenty of gunna be a champ but very very few Champions, he's one.

 

 

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5 hours ago, La Zip said:

You don’t think the owners of the beautiful old horse, Survive, would gladly swap positions with Rupert Leagh?  You think they don’t regret “not listening” to him trying to tell them he’d had enough....some owners don’t deserve the lovely horses they have been given...

That is so sad about Survived.  Did not deserve that ending.  Lovely horse and RIP.

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

There are ample tests available to ascertain the state of his physical health, and presumably they’ve been done by team Hawkes.

Without any knowledge of the problem you must presume this is behavioral, and then the questions are

1) is he trying to protect himself from something ?, for example a kissing lesion on the dorsal processes of the spine that only hurts when he hyper-extends ( as in jumping out of the barrier from a cold start ) Those sort of problems can be fixed by a decent vet.

Then there’s

2) is he just so wily and so learned now that he correlates extreme competition with pain, as in anaerobic pain.

Number 2 is probably much harder to diagnose and fix because it’s clearly a mental thing.

I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t continue as a racehorse, but I will say that whilst I’d retire him I accept that it’s their prerogative to try again, and if he has a catastrophic no fair person should attribute the blame to them in the absence of compelling evidence of some form of neglect due to a lack of thoroughness.

My treatment regime, a prophylactic drug regime for bone related conditions in conjunction with a reward based programme for when he behaves appropriately.....and never let a jockey hit him again.....

Thank me later team Hawke’s.

Interesting though that in the Flemington jump out he went away, but back in Sydney he didn't. 

Is there something about those specific barriers he has a problem with, or bad memory from...?

According to Hawkes he's not in pain ( how he knows that not sure ) and Berry said he felt the same both times.

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

As I said he might be 100% pain free until he does a certain thing with his body.

It’s treatable.

remember he was kicked behind the barriers i think at moonee valley could it be mental issue

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1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

Interesting though that in the Flemington jump out he went away, but back in Sydney he didn't. 

 

In Melbourne he was placed in the outside gate, last in and was still walking in as the gates were released. Probably thought he was walking in to the swab box. Stood for a bit in Sydney and berry said he knew he wasn't going to jump.

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2 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

In Melbourne he was placed in the outside gate, last in and was still walking in as the gates were released. Probably thought he was walking in to the swab box. Stood for a bit in Sydney and berry said he knew he wasn't going to jump.

Needs a Mobile start Chevy.....;)

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3 hours ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

I'll take him and aim him for the Castlepoint Cup, it's a flag start. 

Mad Moose did the reverse about five years back. Was handy two mile chaser but decided had enough , tapes went up he stood still. Did this about 5 times at top meetings . Trainer changed plans ,  entered him in Doncaster maiden to debut on level  at 9 years old . Dismissed by punters for many valid reasons , he flew out the stalls  like  a Golden Slipper runner having never been in  them before on raceday and won paying 28s. Beat blue blooded  runners trained by Newmarkets best. Ran 3 more times on flat running second to Mount Athos in group race but refused to come out on another occasion.Think connections thought probably best not outstay welcome and get out while ahead before punters put the hit squad on them.  Now retired with his own twitter page. 

 

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I followed my nose on Monty Roberts, and found this story:

https://www.montyroberts.com/horses/lomitas/

In 1988, a German-bred mare by the name of La Colorada by Surumu gave birth to a copper chestnut colt named Lomitas, and at nineteen months of age, Lomitas was placed with Bremen racing trainer, Andreas Wohler.

Andreas knew very early that he had a talented baby on his hands, but he was very careful to limit his training as a two-year-old. Lomitas had two starts in 1990, both in the autumn, which meant he was around thirty months of age. He won both and because they were important two-year-old races, he was named the champion in that category for the 1990 season.

The horse was owned by Walther Jacobs, founder of Gestut Fahrhof of Bremen, one of Germany’s leading breeding and racing establishments. Early in 1991, excitement was palpable among the Jacobs family and at the Wohler stable. They had the early favorite for the German Derby in July and it appeared that he was by far the best of his age. While Andreas knew that Lomitas was a bit of a handful at times, he was confident there would be no problem racing him in April. That confidence was shattered when Lomitas first refused to enter the starting stall but eventually they got him in. He went on to win easily.

It would become obvious to me that Lomitas’s primary problem was claustrophobia. Although his relationship with humans was obviously good, he was prepared to blame people for placing him in tight areas. He was banned from racing worldwide when he refused to load in the starting gate despite the best efforts of a dozen men who pushed and pulled the horse until he became violent some say for thirty minutes, and attacked the men, kicking and striking.

On June 12, 1991, I put my life on hold and left for Germany at the request of Walther Jacobs and Andreas Wohler . When I first saw the magnificent horse, the single word, ‘Gorgeous!’ flew from my mouth. This chestnut Thoroughbred stallion stood 16.0 hands and weighed about 1,150 pounds. He had a white pastern on the off hind leg and a star between his eyes with an elongated strip that widened and ended between his nostrils. Every point of his skeletal frame hit its mark, creating the near perfect racehorse conformation.

When I began to work with him, I remember stepping away from him, looking him over and thinking out loud, ‘I am in the presence of greatness. I had better do my job with patience, diligence and competence.’

I chronicled the first Join-Up® and my work with Lomitas in the The Horses in My Life. His handler Simon Stokes, proved to be a champion the equal of Lomitas himself. Simon and I have gone on to start over three hundred young Thoroughbreds for Fahrhof. Of these, six went on to become classic winners; thirty-nine were Group winners (in internationally approved Group stakes races) with fifty-six listed winners (in internationally approved stakes races). In all, eight champions were produced by Fahrhof since I joined them in 1991, including Silvano and Sabiango.

Lomitas went on to amass a record that, in my opinion, is more important than any other racehorse I’ve dealt with. He didn’t win the most money, but with three Group I races to his credit and horse of the year honors, he surpasses even Alleged as my favorite racehorse of all time. Lomitas won ten races, had three seconds and one third, collecting $918,656.

Lomitas’s second life at stud may prove even more important than his first as a racehorse. He’s now a champion sire and, from his first crop, produced the winner of the 1999 Group I German Derby, champion three-year-old and horse of the year Belenus. To date, Lomitas’s offspring have won nearly $8,000,000.

Suffice it to say that the true satisfaction I derived from my experience with Lomitas comes from the close emotional attachment I formed with him. I use the word ‘great’ very seldom but I attach it to Lomitas with confidence. He was great. It’s not likely I will work with another horse that achieves so much. To have done so is a privilege I will cherish for the rest of my days.

~ Monty Roberts

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