RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Pegasus 9

Lazarus

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"Lazarus was a spent force before the Miracle Mile. He has had the insides run out of him and he is crying out for a spell. Plus he had a virus on top of that. He most probably contracted the virus because his immune system was so low. As for the drive, well she didn't have the horse to do what she thought he could do and consequently the drive looked terrible."

"To see Lazarus go around last night was disgraceful. Remember he was flying in November at home- NZ. Then sent a million miles west to Perth, in the hight of summer won the interdom,   was the run not of the year or decade but the century when he got beaten a lip in the Freo pacing cup then found his way to Melbourne and did a job on them there. Wasn't that enough? Apparently not. While he is not an ornament he isn't a machine either. I was shocked to see him going around again, last night. Connections must be hungry and mean. RSPCA should pinch them."

Two comments on Aussie forum.  Agree that it was greedy to start him and hope he can come back to his best.

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To those 'two' commentors on aus forum: it aint always the trainers decision to run a horse or not, owners have a fair say in what happens too and ultimately it can be their decision in the end! that said, Mark and Nat have already shown that they are not the sort of people who would put a horses well being needlessly at risk for the sake of greed ie. Vincent etc, give me a break, Lazarus is their stable star do those knockers really think that Mark & Nat would do that to a top earner for perhaps some yrs to come, chokin that very income stream they're not that stupid! unlike some posters in forums......

 

Cheers Iraklis

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The draw of 8 (which no horse has even been able to place top 3 from since the race was moved to Menangle), the pace of the race AND the fact Lazarus is a better stayer than sprinter, plus possibly effects of the virus, all added up to an extremely tough job in front of him. Also Nat had never driven the horse before and he's had a very tough season. Even without the virus it wasn't looking likely. But the fact his bloods had improved back to normal, and the fact that they had two more races plannned for the champ back in NZ, meant that the trainers obviously believed that he had it in him. We all know that in 45 races only one horse has ever passed him in the straight to beat him, but how many times has Laz passed horses in the straight to win? Not many, if any. The distance did not really suit, and the race wasn't run to suit. It was impossible to make ground three wide and on those quarters, and while the winner was able to pull out of the slipstream and boom home to victory, that's never been the style of Laz either. Don't underestimate how much of a hinderance barrier 8 is in the Miracle Mile, no matter who the horse is. 

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20 hours ago, Idolmite said:

but how many times has Laz passed horses in the straight to win? Not many, if any. 

:huh: I can remember at least a dozen occasions and I'm sure there would be many others.

The 2015 NRM Sires Stakes when he ran down Chase The Dream at Addington would be one of my favourites.

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3 minutes ago, Tool no. 1 said:

:huh: I can remember at least a dozen occasions and I'm sure there would be many others.

It's certainly not his forte. Leading and defying them all has been his MO over the past couple of seasons. 

Can you list a few of your "at least a dozen?"

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12 minutes ago, Idolmite said:

It's certainly not his forte. Leading and defying them all has been his MO over the past couple of seasons. 

In his two Nz Cup wins definitely but in his three starts before the cup last year

he ran down Have Faith in Me at Addington Titan Banner in the Kaikoura Cup and Dream About Me in the Ashburton Flying Stakes.

Your original comment is just wrong.

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Idolmite, no quite sure what you mean here, but just through the Inters and more recent Hunter Cup etc he certainly didn't simply lead to win, he has come round from back, sat outside leaders but he has had to pass horses to win; one thing I do know, from conversations with trainers one in particular at Puke, who told me 'thoses viruses are notoriously hard to battle, and you can't get a line on a horse unless you run them, but it does knock them and its hard to comeback from them, no matter how well the may seem it sucks the guts out of them', just look at HughieG I seem to remember him havin it at one time, it went through their (Hughes) stables too......

 

Cheers Iraklis

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On 2/25/2018 at 11:24 PM, Pegasus 9 said:

"Lazarus was a spent force before the Miracle Mile. He has had the insides run out of him and he is crying out for a spell. Plus he had a virus on top of that. He most probably contracted the virus because his immune system was so low. As for the drive, well she didn't have the horse to do what she thought he could do and consequently the drive looked terrible."

"To see Lazarus go around last night was disgraceful. Remember he was flying in November at home- NZ. Then sent a million miles west to Perth, in the hight of summer won the interdom,   was the run not of the year or decade but the century when he got beaten a lip in the Freo pacing cup then found his way to Melbourne and did a job on them there. Wasn't that enough? Apparently not. While he is not an ornament he isn't a machine either. I was shocked to see him going around again, last night. Connections must be hungry and mean. RSPCA should pinch them."

Two comments on Aussie forum.  Agree that it was greedy to start him and hope he can come back to his best.

The trainers are inexperienced and will get better if they get good horses to train,

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1 hour ago, Flagship uberalles said:

Really bad call racing him after his lead up to mmile, that's not what I call looking after the horses interests, and that drive keeping him 3 wide was a shocker, she could haved dropped back to last and gone up the markers and hoped for a gap, rather than giving him no chance. Hope he comes through it OK.

By who FU

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11 hours ago, Iraklis said:

Idolmite, no quite sure what you mean here, but just through the Inters and more recent Hunter Cup etc he certainly didn't simply lead to win, he has come round from back, sat outside leaders but he has had to pass horses to win; one thing I do know, from conversations with trainers one in particular at Puke, who told me 'thoses viruses are notoriously hard to battle, and you can't get a line on a horse unless you run them, but it does knock them and its hard to comeback from them, no matter how well the may seem it sucks the guts out of them', just look at HughieG I seem to remember him havin it at one time, it went through their (Hughes) stables too......

 

Cheers Iraklis

Hi Iraklis,

Changing the line of talk a bit.

Living in Matamata as I do, the thoroughbred dominates the horse talk usually, but right now we have Harness Superstars, Vincent, and have, or are expecting shortly, Lazarus to join our horse ranks for treatment and rest. I am picking that most of the town is not aware of who these horses are, and in their area. I will be my best to change that.

Cheers.

Robert.

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Just now, Double R said:

On a facetious note, I do not think The Allstars are going to set up a stable in Matamata!!!  Mind you, also coming here is The Devils Own and All You Need is Faith.

Cheers.

Robert.

Grass is good for them all as are the adjistment  facilities. 

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8 minutes ago, Idolmite said:

Do we know what time Lazarus ran in the MM?

I checked the results and no actual time, but he was 11.7 Lengths from the winner. I roughly equate 5 lengths to the second, so has probably gone around 1.49, which is the close to the fastest he has ever gone.

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37 minutes ago, Double R said:

I checked the results and no actual time, but he was 11.7 Lengths from the winner. I roughly equate 5 lengths to the second, so has probably gone around 1.49, which is the close to the fastest he has ever gone.

Exactly what I was thinking. Not a bad mile time for a stayer at the end of a long and arduous prep, with a virus and from barrier 8. 

I doubt he could run 1.46.9 from the inside barrier with the trail. The same way he couldn't get close to those at the front over one mile run at such a fast clip, most of those wouldn't see which way he went over 2400-3200.  

As was suggested above, it retrospect tagging on the back and hoping for an inside run would of been the go, but even then I think he'd still not of beaten at least the first three home in that time.  

 

 

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Outstanding DoubleR, your so lucky havin the AllStars guns there, wow, I am so green with envy :D check out AllUNeedIsFaith boy he is put together.....

FlagU, Laz was vetted and passed fit to race! seriously, what are you not gettin???? give over already, if you want to believe it was greed by all involved with the horse, owners, trainers, which in turn means the vet was also incompetent, go ahead......

 

Cheers Iraklis

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13 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said:

Seriously, even you conceded he had no show, Maori time trotted a quicker mile than he did the week before, absolutely pure greed running him in the m.mile, they had nothing to prove, all those gut busters he had + virus.

Im not sure that i said what you are purporting FU. I did say that i was not having a bet due to a number of factors. That's my call as to whether i invest or not.

In the wash up the horse ran 1.49 and as for the greed thing, the trainer has probably forgotten more than any of us about training horses, you included. Look at his record and then your own!!

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14 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

Outstanding DoubleR, your so lucky havin the AllStars guns there, wow, I am so green with envy :D check out AllUNeedIsFaith boy he is put together.....

FlagU, Laz was vetted and passed fit to race! seriously, what are you not gettin???? give over already, if you want to believe it was greed by all involved with the horse, owners, trainers, which in turn means the vet was also incompetent, go ahead......

 

Cheers Iraklis

Sure are lucky to have the horses in town. I think AllUNeedIsFaith is going to be gelded after being a bit colty.

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FlagU, that virus does knock them around in themselves, vet or no, and as a trainer explained to me unfortunately you can't tell until you run them, to get a line on em! I have asked 2 different vet friends about this and they both stated that blood can comeback fine, horse is passed fit to run, right! but that does not mean the horse in himself is right (fit to run), that's the diff, my point is you are not only labelling a well reknown trainer who has been training and driving for years (his record speaks for itself) a know nothing, plus Laz's owners/connections the whole dang lot of em are 'greedy', because I doubt very much that to run Laz was one persons decision alone, yeh? is that what you are saying? think about it........but since you know more than anyone connected to Laz perhaps you should offer your services to AllStars as an advisor, trainer, vet, I dunno you think summit up 'everyone's an expert sittin/viewin from the sidelines'......

DoubleR, oh dear poor boy down for the chop :D feelin his oats is he.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

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2 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said:

My point being, obviously something wrong, still feeling effects of virus whatever, you could see it after prelude...every man and his dog wasn't touching Lazarus in the m.m because of that......so yes I'm saying whether it be the all stars or his owners they clearly weren't thinking of the horse when fronting for m.m......every doctor will tell you if you have had a virus you don't do anything strenuous on it such as run a marathon or any hard running as it puts undue strain on the heart.....

Maybe straying off topic a  little bit , but warning in above for all of us in tjhose  last sentences.    My GP was telling me his friends wife who was physical fitness fanatic and a pathologist herself,  she  dropped dead at 36 while out jogging with just  a simple cold.  He said it is far from uncommon to happen to otherwise fit  people with everyday colds let alone more complex viruses as even a  cold can cause changes withing the heart.    Sorry to slightly digress,  but something maybe we should be aware of for our future health.

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Oh for cryin down the drainpipe FlagU, that is what enough of us have been sayin all along re the virus doh! so what is it exactly you are not gettin again??? oh that's right, we've all been offerin up excuses about virus etc.....oh come on for chrissakes, strikes me it wouldn't really matter what Mark does re any of AllStars horses you would still find summit to gripe about!

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

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My point being, obviously something wrong, still feeling effects of virus whatever, you could see it after prelude...every man and his dog wasn't touching Lazarus in the m.m because of that.

Those bloody kangaroos and wombats would have to be the ones to bet on him because they sent him out $2.80 fav probably only couple of hundred in the pool no dog or man was betting him.

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