Berri 2,131 Report post Posted February 22, 2018 Pop Star Princess....She's in the 7th at Matamata. It's a SW + P race for 3yo. She's won a couple of trials (catch weight and proper) and a maidener that has never had a race. Top weight is Age of fire, 3 race winner including a Group 1 (having won a 3yo SW+P, race at its previous start carrying 57.5) also 2nd in 2000 Gns. So Age of fire is carrying 59.5 and Pop Star Princess 54. The part that I don't get is the break between the 2 is only 5.5kg. Can anyone explain because I don't get it at all? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind Squirrel 315 Report post Posted February 22, 2018 I'm no handicapping expert but I''m assuming the race is run under the standard SW&P conditions outlined in the Thoroughbred Monthly whereby: The filly has set weight of 55.5kg but receives the fillies allowance of 1.5kg to sit at 54kg. Age Of Fire has colts and geldings set weight base of 57.5kg and the prescribed 2kg penalty for his Group One win therefore 59.5kg. I'm not aware that there are any other penalties for running a placing in a black type race or for the number of "normal" race wins you have so his second in the 2000 Guineas is irrelevant as his last start win in a similar SW & P event. As this is not run under the normal handicapping scale but as SW&P that is why the weights are what they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cave 12 Report post Posted February 22, 2018 There's your SW&P Black Type 3yo race which is exactly the same as the older horses, e.g. 3kgs penalty for a Group 1 win. And then there's your every day SW&P 3 yo race whereby each win is only penalised 1 kg after the first win, which is a 1 1/2 kg penalty. Crazy I know. But they did away with 3yo Handicaps for some reason, probably to encourage Black Type performers to race against their own age group instead of older horses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cave 12 Report post Posted February 25, 2018 On 2/23/2018 at 9:14 AM, Berri said: Pop Star Princess....She's in the 7th at Matamata. It's a SW + P race for 3yo. She's won a couple of trials (catch weight and proper) and a maidener that has never had a race. Top weight is Age of fire, 3 race winner including a Group 1 (having won a 3yo SW+P, race at its previous start carrying 57.5) also 2nd in 2000 Gns. So Age of fire is carrying 59.5 and Pop Star Princess 54. The part that I don't get is the break between the 2 is only 5.5kg. Can anyone explain because I don't get it at all? Did you understand the above berri? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted February 26, 2018 19 hours ago, Richard Cave said: Did you understand the above berri? No. I had my eye on Pop Star Princess because I thought she was all right. So the weights became a mission in my head. So let's take your explanation... Say everything starts at level weights. So for this race it's 54 kgs. That says there are no allowances for sex where we know they're hell bent on giving fillies 2kgs. So Age of Fire wins a maiden, then runs second in the 2000gns, then wins a SW+P 3yo off 57.5, then wins the Levin GP1, then is given 2kgs more than his SW+P race after winning the 3yo GP1 at set weights giving the fillies 2kgs. Your explanation has no logic, and doesn't get the result..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cave 12 Report post Posted February 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Berri said: No. I had my eye on Pop Star Princess because I thought she was all right. So the weights became a mission in my head. So let's take your explanation... Say everything starts at level weights. So for this race it's 54 kgs. That says there are no allowances for sex where we know they're hell bent on giving fillies 2kgs. So Age of Fire wins a maiden, then runs second in the 2000gns, then wins a SW+P 3yo off 57.5, then wins the Levin GP1, then is given 2kgs more than his SW+P race after winning the 3yo GP1 at set weights giving the fillies 2kgs. Your explanation has no logic, and doesn't get the result..... No I'm giving you purely the Nuts and bolts explanation. SW&P 3yo Black Type racing is exactly the same weighting system as the older horses. Ordinary every day SW&P 3yo races are as follows Maiden Fillies 54kg Maiden Colts 56kg A first win receives a 1 1/2kg penalty and each win after that receives 1 kg. AOF to 57.5 kg for its first win plus 2kgs for its 2 other wins regardless of the race! I told you it was balmy but it encourages Black Type performers to race against their own age group which is what most stakeholders want. 3yo Handicaps are a thing of the past I'm afraid. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
