Awesome-O

Time for positive leadership.

42 posts in this topic

 New Zealand Greyhound Racing Association, lets get real.  Instead of bringing in more rules and regulations, how about trying to make the New Zealand Greyhound industry grow, for the New Zealand owner, trainer and breeder. At the moment, we have no industry whereby the New Zealand breeder can get a fair price for his pup, break in or race dog.  Its time that the Australian import stops taking from our industry.  There is no problem with the Australian import coming to New Zealand but how about they are not eligible for any group race at all.  Let the New Zealand owner/breeder have the opportunity to build a New Zealand based industry.  Thereby the money from the group races goes back into the New Zealand industry, with half of it not going away from our kiwi industry.  Bring in as many imports as we like, but to race in grade races only.  The association says welfare is now our top priority, then why are we letting half of all our top stake money go offshore, not being returned into our kiwi based industry.  I am sure if the New Zealand greyhounds were being imported into Victoria at the rate they are here, it would be stopped.  We need to move forward in a positive way and make a New Zealand based industry for New Zealand bred dogs and New Zealand owners.  This would continue to build the sport in a positive way.  I feel we have not had one change from the association that has made it better for our industry to move forward.

Good luck to all the hard working New Zealand breeders out there.

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Just a side note how many owners trainers and breeders would be where they are now without imports ?? I kinda get what your saying and agree to a point . Why can’t the nz dog sell for a fair price ? Because the cost of the dog from point a to b is so high ? The return is not strong over 3 years ? I don’t agree with not letting imports in group races they are and always will be the best of the best ,and one always needs to aim high. But there could be more nz bred races for bigger prize money , take nzrs races if you didn’t bred the dog you are in fact racing for less stake in most cases . There is plenty to be done and could be done , almost all ideas have merit and come from a great place . If we get a yes man/ or woman we won’t last the next 5 years. Total control needs to be put back together starting with input from the clubs with the voice of there members ... the clock is ticking people if the rule goes thru on the 1st of feb we are in deep water with a strong anchor . 

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You stop imports racing in group races and you will be lucky to get two heats lol. The only successful breeders who breed group dogs consistantly in nz tend to be the ones breeding in mass numbers (there are one or two others who breed group dogs consistantly aswell) so if you did this. More people would probably start whining how unfare it is. All you would see is 8 dog fields full of bigtime dogs and the odd thrilling and opawa.

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9 hours ago, I know said:

Just a side note how many owners trainers and breeders would be where they are now without imports ?? I kinda get what your saying and agree to a point . Why can’t the nz dog sell for a fair price ? Because the cost of the dog from point a to b is so high ? The return is not strong over 3 years ? I don’t agree with not letting imports in group races they are and always will be the best of the best ,and one always needs to aim high. But there could be more nz bred races for bigger prize money , take nzrs races if you didn’t bred the dog you are in fact racing for less stake in most cases . There is plenty to be done and could be done , almost all ideas have merit and come from a great place . If we get a yes man/ or woman we won’t last the next 5 years. Total control needs to be put back together starting with input from the clubs with the voice of there members ... the clock is ticking people if the rule goes thru on the 1st of feb we are in deep water with a strong anchor . 

Which rule are you referring to?

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3 hours ago, alltheway!!! said:

You stop imports racing in group races and you will be lucky to get two heats lol. The only successful breeders who breed group dogs consistantly in nz tend to be the ones breeding in mass numbers (there are one or two others who breed group dogs consistantly aswell) so if you did this. More people would probably start whining how unfare it is. All you would see is 8 dog fields full of bigtime dogs and the odd thrilling and opawa.

The only surprising thing about this Alltheway is that you were not first cab off the block. Asking you to like Awesome O's idea would be like asking a turkey to like.Christmas dinners.

What a load of bollocks about not getting runners for group races. There would still be plenty, just different dogs. If group races were dominated by Thrillings, Bigtimes and Opawa's it would be because they deserved to. You are quite proud to see them dominated by imports but not quality NZ dogs.

The more NZ imports the less viable and sustainable and more vulnerable the NZ industry becomes.

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2 hours ago, GOM said:

The only surprising thing about this Alltheway is that you were not first cab off the block. Asking you to like Awesome O's idea would be like asking a turkey to like.Christmas dinners.

What a load of bollocks about not getting runners for group races. There would still be plenty, just different dogs. If group races were dominated by Thrillings, Bigtimes and Opawa's it would be because they deserved to. You are quite proud to see them dominated by imports but not quality NZ dogs.

The more NZ imports the less viable and sustainable and more vulnerable the NZ industry becomes.

without the Aussie dogs in the heats on Friday night, there would be 4 dogs for the Hatrick classic final. Not even enough to hold a race.

One could argue that importing may be better than allowing people to breed 100s of dogs per year to get 10 dogs that can run. a lot less wastage that's for sure. Without the Aussie dogs in these races, there would be no competition at all. And I am sure people love to punt on races where there is no competition between dogs

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In the future, If these races were for only New Zealand bred and owned dogs, you would probably find there would be 8 heats. People are not interested in getting their heads kicked in by the  hot Aussie dogs any longer. But if the New Zealand breeder knew that there was an incentive to race in the group races, you would probably find that the betting on them would be better and the competition very even, instead of it being a one sided exhibition on who has the fastest import.  Lets make the industry a New Zealand based industry where we are all on a level playing field and at least have the opportunity to race in good races. As well as making it a fair go for all, the money goes back into our Industry, as we all continue to breed and sell for a fair price.  Unless we start thinking to the future, there may be no future?

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Just a shame there is not breeders in NZ that just breed to sell the current 3 top kennels that breed at the moment keep the best and spread the ones the dont come up to the mark to other  kennels to keep the cash flow rolling  in which is good business.

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Im a bit lost at the single mindeness...i think you will find it is failed nz bred pups filling gap more than imports...our lack of breaking in facilities  is causing this....as ive said and will say it again why dosnt grnz set up on the back of the levin kennels a designated break in track.with a emploed trainer who could train up and coming trainers on site...be a intresting breakdown to find out how many nz bred pups turn up at gap not chasing or poorly broken in compared to aussie imports...

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Steve, The imports are imported racing dogs so of course there are going to be more NZ pups not making the cut than imports even though to clarify that a bit,  a great deal of the imports are here because they didn't chase or were not up to scratch over the ditch. I am sure everyone can name imports that have been tried in Aust. coming here and proving to be absolute failures. If you want to compare apples with apples then compare Aust bred pups failure rate overall because all the noise coming from over there is that without the live and dead bating and other incentives they are having non chase epidemics. The average Aust racing dog has far less starts  ( I think it is in the 40 or 50's) than most other countries . Our GAP certainly would have a far easier time if we had a similar dumping ground.

      If there is a lack of breakers in NZ it is because there is a lack of need for them . The chicken or the egg scenario.

You gave the breeding thing a fair shake albeit with Aust. help, but I notice you seem to be resorting to  imports once again. Is that because it is too hard or you have to import to keep up with the rest.

It actually amazes me that breeders that have cracked it and managed to breed top line pups in NZ still feel the need to import. 

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20 hours ago, Awesome-O said:

In the future, If these races were for only New Zealand bred and owned dogs, you would probably find there would be 8 heats. People are not interested in getting their heads kicked in by the  hot Aussie dogs any longer. But if the New Zealand breeder knew that there was an incentive to race in the group races, you would probably find that the betting on them would be better and the competition very even, instead of it being a one sided exhibition on who has the fastest import.  Lets make the industry a New Zealand based industry where we are all on a level playing field and at least have the opportunity to race in good races. As well as making it a fair go for all, the money goes back into our Industry, as we all continue to breed and sell for a fair price.  Unless we start thinking to the future, there may be no future?

And who wants to punt on 8 heats full of c1 billy goats?? Not to mention the fact that only three trainers will most likely dominate these races. 

You only have to look at the success of nzbred races to see this. The only breeders you see travel for these sizable races are cole, wales and sometimes walsh and they would win 90% of the breeders stakes.

Also the home bred dogs do not have to worry about imports for these races so why does no one else travel for them?  There already are incentives for nz bred dogs. The only problem is 90% of trainers ignore these completley.

I for one enjoy watching a competitive c5 race compared to a boring c1 race which is the norm for nz breeders in general. Making group races nz bred only narrows the pie of whom is winning stakes

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48 minutes ago, GOM said:

Steve, The imports are imported racing dogs so of course there are going to be more NZ pups not making the cut than imports even though to clarify that a bit,  a great deal of the imports are here because they didn't chase or were not up to scratch over the ditch. I am sure everyone can name imports that have been tried in Aust. coming here and proving to be absolute failures. If you want to compare apples with apples then compare Aust bred pups failure rate overall because all the noise coming from over there is that without the live and dead bating and other incentives they are having non chase epidemics. The average Aust racing dog has far less starts  ( I think it is in the 40 or 50's) than most other countries . Our GAP certainly would have a far easier time if we had a similar dumping ground.

      If there is a lack of breakers in NZ it is because there is a lack of need for them . The chicken or the egg scenario.

You gave the breeding thing a fair shake albeit with Aust. help, but I notice you seem to be resorting to  imports once again. Is that because it is too hard or you have to import to keep up with the rest.

It actually amazes me that breeders that have cracked it and managed to breed top line pups in NZ still feel the need to import. 

mike can i ask where you got your average starts for dogs in aust  also nz would be well ahead in starts as some dogs race 3 times in a week

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20 hours ago, Awesome-O said:

In the future, If these races were for only New Zealand bred and owned dogs, you would probably find there would be 8 heats. People are not interested in getting their heads kicked in by the  hot Aussie dogs any longer. But if the New Zealand breeder knew that there was an incentive to race in the group races, you would probably find that the betting on them would be better and the competition very even, instead of it being a one sided exhibition on who has the fastest import.  Lets make the industry a New Zealand based industry where we are all on a level playing field and at least have the opportunity to race in good races. As well as making it a fair go for all, the money goes back into our Industry, as we all continue to breed and sell for a fair price.  Unless we start thinking to the future, there may be no future?

Level playing field? Anyone can import a dog just like anyone can breed a litter so how is the playing field not even?

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7 minutes ago, gary1 said:

mike can i ask where you got your average starts for dogs in aust  also nz would be well ahead in starts as some dogs race 3 times in a week

Money is also alot better in Australia in general. Dogs do not have to race as often over there to make money.

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2 hours ago, alltheway!!! said:

Money is also alot better in Australia in general. Dogs do not have to race as often over there to make money.

take a look at most aussie races today compared to palmy

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6 hours ago, GOM said:

Steve, The imports are imported racing dogs so of course there are going to be more NZ pups not making the cut than imports even though to clarify that a bit,  a great deal of the imports are here because they didn't chase or were not up to scratch over the ditch. I am sure everyone can name imports that have been tried in Aust. coming here and proving to be absolute failures. If you want to compare apples with apples then compare Aust bred pups failure rate overall because all the noise coming from over there is that without the live and dead bating and other incentives they are having non chase epidemics. The average Aust racing dog has far less starts  ( I think it is in the 40 or 50's) than most other countries . Our GAP certainly would have a far easier time if we had a similar dumping ground.

      If there is a lack of breakers in NZ it is because there is a lack of need for them . The chicken or the egg scenario.

You gave the breeding thing a fair shake albeit with Aust. help, but I notice you seem to be resorting to  imports once again. Is that because it is too hard or you have to import to keep up with the rest.

It actually amazes me that breeders that have cracked it and managed to breed top line pups in NZ still feel the need to import. 

Incorrect mike..im giving up breeding simply for financial reasons...60k a litter if you keep them and to be honest its like lotto if you are a small breeder...we have had great sucsess with our home breeds ..but lets not forget they were out off australian import  bitches who if they never came we would not have them...same as 80pc of other so called nz breed..how many of coles and other breeders bitches came from australia....and no i am not importing any more than i have always and now wont front any costs brigning them in.....the funny thing is over the last 5 years with the so called imports i have bought in ..3 have gone to gap but 15 nz breds have gone from my kennels to gap ...the other aussie imports are still here...

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2 hours ago, Hound Fan said:

Incorrect mike..im giving up breeding simply for financial reasons...60k a litter if you keep them and to be honest its like lotto if you are a small breeder...we have had great sucsess with our home breeds ..but lets not forget they were out off australian import  bitches who if they never came we would not have them...same as 80pc of other so called nz breed..how many of coles and other breeders bitches came from australia....and no i am not importing any more than i have always and now wont front any costs brigning them in.....the funny thing is over the last 5 years with the so called imports i have bought in ..3 have gone to gap but 15 nz breds have gone from my kennels to gap ...the other aussie imports are still here...

well done steve

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Would you travel 6 or 7 hours to a track. Then come last without a chance of money when you come 7th or 8th. Looks like the big kennels and the ones with the finances will control the industry. The likes of us will just fizzle out. And in saying that we've been successful with our own breed from the one brood bitch. And she was NZ bred. We've just had another littler from her daughter that never raced. That's our last shot at it.

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16 minutes ago, modest mouse said:

Would you travel 6 or 7 hours to a track. Then come last without a chance of money when you come 7th or 8th. Looks like the big kennels and the ones with the finances will control the industry. The likes of us will just fizzle out. And in saying that we've been successful with our own breed from the one brood bitch. And she was NZ bred. We've just had another littler from her daughter that never raced. That's our last shot at it.

Henny..sorry but if you go back and if monas idle wasnt imported to nz you would not have your brood bitch....this is my point we do not have true nz bred dogs without imports....and the you have to look were most of the sires come from....either  irish or australian...if a newzealander has australian or irish or Scottish blood in them they are intitled to play for that country...so when do you start saying dogs are nz breed.....without imports we would not have greyhounds in nz..

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1 hour ago, modest mouse said:

Matter of opinion. Such a shame you can never post anything without being criticised.  

Sorry wasnt criticising...was just making a point about why stopping imports would be wrong....you should be proud of your breeding they have gone super....but my point is still if we never had imports 90pc of dogs wouldnt have been here.....

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Steve, Importing for breeding can happen without flooding the fields with imports. Same as the other two codes.

    $60,000 per litter for your NZ operation is amazing. if That is right then you may as well buy them ready to go alright.

       I would imagine ours would be something like 6 to 10 thousand for a 6 dog litter. If it was anywhere near 60,000 we would never have started.

 Your comment about all your NZ dogs going to GAP while the imports remain there says more about you than the system

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I have raced hand me down imports, and hand me down NZ breds. I have re-homed both. I don't have an issue with a capped import quota, there should be a choice. However, most recent the buying of imports to target the money races specifically. That resentment isn't about envy, it's about the amount of work put in here as opposed to buying readymade group winners off the shelf. Then there are the large NZ breeders who breed 300 dogs to get maybe 10 competitive top-end dogs. The problem is what happens to the 100 that don't meet minimum kennel standards. If you ban imports altogether to protect your own, do you then ban imported semen as well? I do not support a ban, I support sensible regulation that ensures the numbers raced and re-homed are manageable.

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