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ALL STARS "NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME"-ITS A MYTH

143 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said:

I don't think one person has said that they are not fantastic trainers or don't deserve plaudits, ...I think most would just love to see the big cups etc become competitive again and draw people to the track to see a mouth watering clash rather than a field half full of very low rated horses chasing a very good one around in a circle with the result guaranteed when nominations closed.

Watch the Freemantle Cup this friday night at GP Perth if you want to see a competitive race.And dont forget the ID final. Or are there no decent horses in Australia  as well.

You can only race against whats put in the race and if the field if of an inferior standard you carnt  blame the winner for nominating and then winning the race.

Sometimes some horses are just superior to the rest going round at the time. This has happened many times over the years and will happen again in the future. Think of Courage Under Fire, Noodlum, Lyall CreeK, Blacks A Fake, Smoken Up etc etc. Dare I say it the Lazarus is one of those who at this time is just plainly superior to all other horses going around

 

 

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FlagU, where the hell are you and others etc gettin the idea that AllStars are movin to aussie? leave it out already.......I mean why would they what theyre doin now seems to be workin perfectly fine both sides of the ditch  :D

 

Cheers Iraklis

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22 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

FlagU, where the hell are you and others etc gettin the idea that AllStars are movin to aussie?

Go back a bit in this discussion and I speculated (jokingly) that they might be. All around the article's long-term commitment sentence. If the stable is prepared to write an article like this then they leave themselves open to rebuttal and speculation.

The article itself is badly written with terrible sentence structure and grammar mistakes. Leaves a lot of things poorly explained. It wasn't even proofread.

It is like the author had a few drinks, got fired up, ended up drunk, wrote it and then posted it.

 

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6 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

They are a business

So we are constantly told. A successful one - the best. It does make good business sense to go and set up in Australia. Others seem to be doing it so it must worthwhile. They wouldn't be missing anything as the stakes and seemingly the rating system here is inferior to Australia.

Maybe they would keep a smaller satellite base remaining in Christchurch as a development centre for their younger horses and act as a feeder for their Australian base.

15 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

With races like Auckland cup not being that important anymore

Almost chump change for them.

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Guest Hunterthenutter
9 hours ago, Lee270744 said:

 

There is eight thousand dictionaries on google try one.

You are losing the credit I was going to give you.

whata piss poor answer your the one losing the credit

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FlagU, I understand they are a business mate and I congratulate them for the very successful business they operate, but again only your assumptions that a move makes sense, after all as I said earlier AllStars operations appear to be workin the way it is just fine! if the wheel aint broke why fix it  :rolleyes: you realise there's been no mention of any kind of move to aus other than a 'scenario' posted in jest in here by your mate HappyS......

 

Cheers Iraklis

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Guest

Can’t see them moving to Oz permanently although they may set up a satellite stable like Mark jones has.

They have got too many loyal NZ owners that want to be able to watch their horses in NZ rather than OZ.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Can’t see them moving to Oz permanently although they may set up a satellite stable like Mark jones has.

They have got too many loyal NZ owners that want to be able to watch their horses in NZ rather than Oz

Good point.

Iraklis I was merely speculating re move - no facts behind my statement above. Don't get me wrong I love watching their horses go around too, though we don't like competing against them so much!  

Rolleston is expanding rapidly with subdivisions and infrastructure  - All stars are in a prime location right on the town boundary. That land on Levi Rd will be worth a fortune for development in future... Very clever foresight whoever decided to set up shop there.

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Hi HunterTP,  I think this is what Lee270744 was on about........definition of AUTOLOGOUS -

adjective au·tol·o·gous \ ȯ-ˈtäl-ə-gəs \ medical Definition of autologous

1 : derived from the same individual

autologous grafts incubated lymphoid cells with autologous tumor cells

— compare heterologous 1, homologous 2a

2 : involving one individual as both donor and recipient (as of blood) autologous transfusion, autologous bone marrow transplants

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

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17 hours ago, Lee270744 said:

Anonymous sources say Winx will soon have to start 50 meters behind to get a level playing field.

And Waller, Waterhouse and Cummings will have to go and make way for the run of the mill trainers who can not compete.

No one is saying they are not bad trainers etc - far from it .

What has been said is Lazarus is harnesses Winx which is great but no trainers of any horse racing code dominate like the All Stars .

The big Aussie trainers do not trifecta the Melbourne Cup or Cox Plate or The Golden Slipper .

This situation is far different and 8 horse fields with 6 from one stable is affecting turnover and therefore the viability of the sport !

Turnover pays the stakes and from Club executive & Board members advice in All Stars dominated races the turnover is terrible !

Auckland Trotting Club had this problem when Roy Purdon was dominating - nothing like All Stars do now - and forced Barry Purdon to train on his own account - because the dominance was affecting the Club’s viability - some say it was the start of the rot for the ATC which it still hasn’t recovered from !

Therefore history tells us the All Stars dominance by taking most of the group races and 60% of all the stakes available over the 3 biggest premier days is not good for the sport .

Where have I got it wrong ?

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47 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

No one is saying they are not bad trainers etc - far from it .

What has been said is Lazarus is harnesses Winx which is great but no trainers of any horse racing code dominate like the All Stars .

The big Aussie trainers do not trifecta the Melbourne Cup or Cox Plate or The Golden Slipper .

This situation is far different and 8 horse fields with 6 from one stable is affecting turnover and therefore the viability of the sport !

Turnover pays the stakes and from Club executive & Board members advice in All Stars dominated races the turnover is terrible !

Auckland Trotting Club had this problem when Roy Purdon was dominating - nothing like All Stars do now - and forced Barry Purdon to train on his own account - because the dominance was affecting the Club’s viability - some say it was the start of the rot for the ATC which it still hasn’t recovered from !

Therefore history tells us the All Stars dominance by taking most of the group races and 60% of all the stakes available over the 3 biggest premier days is not good for the sport .

Where have I got it wrong ?

Longowner, you have not got it wrong at all!

Been saying this for a long time.

There is a lot of rot that has set into harness racing in NZ and there are many issues that are not being addressed.

Has Harness Racing got a rosey future in New Zealand over the next few years and onwards???

No it hasn’t, and that is the cold hard truth, unless the issues are addressed!

Racing needs owners and punters and without them, there is no need to have horses!

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Guest Hunterthenutter
6 hours ago, Iraklis said:

Hi HunterTP,  I think this is what Lee270744 was on about........definition of AUTOLOGOUS -

adjective au·tol·o·gous \ ȯ-ˈtäl-ə-gəs \ medical Definition of autologous

1 : derived from the same individual

autologous grafts incubated lymphoid cells with autologous tumor cells

— compare heterologous 1, homologous 2a

2 : involving one individual as both donor and recipient (as of blood) autologous transfusion, autologous bone marrow transplants

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

you may be right iraklis but injecting surum is blood doping google actovgin

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Guest Hunterthenutter
1 hour ago, Iraklis said:

HunterTP, sorry mate but what is 'surum injections' and 'actovgin'......and are you saying Allstars are doing this?

 

Cheers Iraklis

blood taken out of a horse spun around it be comes a surum  and is injected back in the horse actovgin is the same and be comes like steroids google it

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9 hours ago, LongOwner said:

This situation is far different and 8 horse fields with 6 from one stable is affecting turnover and therefore the viability of the sport !

Agree this would be bad for turnover. But please give examples when this has happened 

 

9 hours ago, LongOwner said:

Turnover pays the stakes and from Club executive & Board members advice in All Stars dominated races the turnover is terrible !

Again please give examples where this is common as I have checked the turnover for December where the All Stars have several runners and found this not to be the case.

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You may be right Iraklis, I didn't realise you compiled the dictionary lol.

So autologous means taking blood from a calf(Actovegin) then filter it and it immediately becomes a steroid administer it to a horse and you can win group one races all over Australasia without fear of getting rubbed out for life.

I'm going to check if Hillmorton has any vacancies.

 

 

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HunterTP,  I did use 'uncle google' and all I came up with was a treatment of osteo issues and knee joint issues, joint issues in general etc in horses or animals, I take it you meant serum and Actovegin.....again I ask are you saying or do you believe that Allstars are doing this?

Lee, thanks for that wasn't sure if there was some new wonder drug called Autologous Surum Actovegin or Surum Autologous Actovegin etc or summit like that :D well they are saying in online reports that Usain Bolt (sprinter, not horse or some may argue) was using it, so who knows whether or not people of the horse racing fraternity have clicked onto it.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

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18 hours ago, Brodie said:

Longowner, you have not got it wrong at all!

Been saying this for a long time.

There is a lot of rot that has set into harness racing in NZ and there are many issues that are not being addressed.

Has Harness Racing got a rosey future in New Zealand over the next few years and onwards???

No it hasn’t, and that is the cold hard truth, unless the issues are addressed!

Racing needs owners and punters and without them, there is no need to have horses!

Given the above from our resident expert, especially the stuff in bold print , today's question is: does harness racing need the  Brodies of the world or do the Brodies need punting to satisfy some innate desire to succeed???. Can they transfer their skills to another gambling outlet and if so should they??

And no, this is not a crack at Brodie per se

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34 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

Given the above from our resident expert, especially the stuff in bold print , today's question is: does harness racing need the  Brodies of the world or do the Brodies need punting to satisfy some innate desire to succeed???. Can they transfer their skills to another gambling outlet and if so should they??

And no, this is not a crack at Brodie per se

I cannot believe this statement/posting.

Stakes come from punting and every punter who leaves harness racing and stops punting or goes and punts on the Dogs means stake levels are under threat.

Will the All Star owners invest in horses and pay training fees of $95 per day + gst +++ everything else if stakes dropped by say 20% . The code payout for stakes from NZRB is paid out relative to turnover!

Punters make the sport go around - I still cannot believe this comment - no idea how the sport works !

Where do people think stake money comes from - trees ? 

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35 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

I cannot believe this statement/posting.

Stakes come from punting and every punter who leaves harness racing and stops punting or goes and punts on the Dogs means stake levels are under threat.

Will the All Star owners invest in horses and pay training fees of $95 per day + gst +++ everything else if stakes dropped by say 20% . The code payout for stakes from NZRB is paid out relative to turnover!

Punters make the sport go around - I still cannot believe this comment - no idea how the sport works !

Where do people think stake money comes from - trees ? 

Thanks, your the first person to try and answer the questions posed and given your earlier posts your answers are not surprising. But if FO harness punters know more than TAB and consistently win then it makes no odds as surely there will be less money  for NZRB to payout to the industry. Therefore it is not relative to turnover. Tote betting is another matter as its a simple takeout equation

FYG, real stakes have probably dropped more than 20% in the last decade and costs have certainly gone up but  owners will still be paying up at the sales in a few weeks including team All Stars

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