POPA GAS 73 Report post Posted December 21, 2017 Trouble on the 1st bend. How about 6 dog fields? About 5yrs ago Wanganui put forward 6 dog fields, but it did not get past the 1st reading. At the same time,Wanganui put forward that dogs could be drawn in boxes that suit the dogs, railer 1to3, wide runners 678. We just look at OZ, how about we look at UK? As we will have too many dogs here, the 1st thing we can do is to stop all OZ dogs coming in?The dogs that come in is about the same number that go to GAP? Bev Hall, come on ref, aquaman and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted December 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, POPA GAS said: Trouble on the 1st bend. How about 6 dog fields? About 5yrs ago Wanganui put forward 6 dog fields, but it did not get past the 1st reading. At the same time,Wanganui put forward that dogs could be drawn in boxes that suit the dogs, railer 1to3, wide runners 678. We just look at OZ, how about we look at UK? As we will have too many dogs here, the 1st thing we can do is to stop all OZ dogs coming in?The dogs that come in is about the same number that go to GAP? Bev yep great ideas bev your first point re numbers wont happen it will reduce betting 2nd point stop bringing in aussie dogs whilst doing that you may as well stop bringing in semen then what happens ill let you answer that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman 1,352 Report post Posted December 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, gary1 said: yep great ideas bev your first point re numbers wont happen it will reduce betting 2nd point stop bringing in aussie dogs whilst doing that you may as well stop bringing in semen then what happens ill let you answer that NZ got on very nicely without imported semen, it also got on very nicely without imported dogs. What happens is NZ breeders meet the slack. And before imports and semen, NZ greyhounds had far greater turnover and participation than what we have today, so in answer to your question Gary, NZ Greyhound racing would be far stronger and more profitable if both were done away with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted December 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, aquaman said: NZ got on very nicely without imported semen, it also got on very nicely without imported dogs. What happens is NZ breeders meet the slack. And before imports and semen, NZ greyhounds had far greater turnover and participation than what we have today, so in answer to your question Gary, NZ Greyhound racing would be far stronger and more profitable if both were done away with. i suppose you wold say your turnover was great before aussie tabs got involved as for far stronger i think your clutching at straws Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman 1,352 Report post Posted December 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, gary1 said: i suppose you wold say your turnover was great before aussie tabs got involved as for far stronger i think your clutching at straws Yes, you are right Gary, NZ turnovers were far stronger before co mingling. A typical Greyhound meeting back in the 80"s and 90's would do up to $500,000, and that on a 10 race card. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modest mouse 469 Report post Posted December 21, 2017 worked on the tote, all those years ago. Never been that busy as working at Manukau on a Monday afternoon. You could not move because of all the people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted December 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, aquaman said: Yes, you are right Gary, NZ turnovers were far stronger before co mingling. A typical Greyhound meeting back in the 80"s and 90's would do up to $500,000, and that on a 10 race card. are u just plucking those figures fromt hin air as i see it turnover across all codes has increased nearly every year if what your saying is true greyhounds have declined drastically Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Sharp 224 Report post Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, POPA GAS said: Trouble on the 1st bend. How about 6 dog fields? About 5yrs ago Wanganui put forward 6 dog fields, but it did not get past the 1st reading. At the same time,Wanganui put forward that dogs could be drawn in boxes that suit the dogs, railer 1to3, wide runners 678. We just look at OZ, how about we look at UK? As we will have too many dogs here, the 1st thing we can do is to stop all OZ dogs coming in?The dogs that come in is about the same number that go to GAP? Bev Glen Hunt had the same thought about the boxing a few months back & there was a nice debate on it. Not sure if he contacted GRNZ about it or not. I think it's a good idea & might help some of the dogs. I don't think they will make smaller fields cause they would have to add more races to the card to cover the extra dogs that are missing out which would mean having to pay out more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flabbergasted 67 Report post Posted December 27, 2017 Preferred or Seeded box draws (whatever you want to callit) is a must and a no brainer. Will drastically reduce interference in races which will in turn drastically reduce injuries. come on ref and flyin 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe blogs 202 Report post Posted December 27, 2017 So what box would a dog get if it ran straight so it don't go right or left gary1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniJax 30 Report post Posted December 27, 2017 8 hours ago, Joe blogs said: So what box would a dog get if it ran straight so it don't go right or left Box 1? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe blogs 202 Report post Posted December 27, 2017 So what box dose the dog that goes hard left get and hard right Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flabbergasted 67 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 It's quite simple and as every race would have a different amount of railers, centre trackers and wide runners etc. the box draw would automatically account for that. If there's three railers, two that want the middle of the track, and three wide runners then the railers would draw boxes 1 to 3, 4 and 5 for the centre dogs and 6 to 8 for the wide runners, if there's five railers, one that goes straight and two wide runners then the railers would draw from 1 to 5 the centre one would get 6 and the wide runners would draw 7 and 8, four railers and four wide runners then railers in 1 to 4 and wides in 5 to 8, if there are eight railers then it would still be automatically drawn 1 to 8 for that field and the same if there happened to be eight wide runners in a field. If you wanted to go to the enth degree and classify desperate railers that crash hard left to the fence or desperate wide runners that crash hard right to the outside then again the box draw system could easily be programmed to allow for the same. It would be a little more complex with drawing the reserves as you couldn't be certain what boxes they could gain once scratchings were notified but no doubt a workable solution could be found. Maybe where possible maybe one of each could be drawn and then allocated the box according to what side of the track it wants for example. if number 9 is a railer and 10 is a wide runner and the 7 is the only scr then 10 would automatically get the run (unless all eight were deemd railers whereas the 9 would get the start). In the horses and trots they often come in one etc. so maybe that could work or even out one if need be. Participants and punters would soon learn the new method if implemented. come on ref 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 59 minutes ago, Flabbergasted said: It's quite simple and as every race would have a different amount of railers, centre trackers and wide runners etc. the box draw would automatically account for that. If there's three railers, two that want the middle of the track, and three wide runners then the railers would draw boxes 1 to 3, 4 and 5 for the centre dogs and 6 to 8 for the wide runners, if there's five railers, one that goes straight and two wide runners then the railers would draw from 1 to 5 the centre one would get 6 and the wide runners would draw 7 and 8, four railers and four wide runners then railers in 1 to 4 and wides in 5 to 8, if there are eight railers then it would still be automatically drawn 1 to 8 for that field and the same if there happened to be eight wide runners in a field. If you wanted to go to the enth degree and classify desperate railers that crash hard left to the fence or desperate wide runners that crash hard right to the outside then again the box draw system could easily be programmed to allow for the same. It would be a little more complex with drawing the reserves as you couldn't be certain what boxes they could gain once scratchings were notified but no doubt a workable solution could be found. Maybe where possible maybe one of each could be drawn and then allocated the box according to what side of the track it wants for example. if number 9 is a railer and 10 is a wide runner and the 7 is the only scr then 10 would automatically get the run (unless all eight were deemd railers whereas the 9 would get the start). In the horses and trots they often come in one etc. so maybe that could work or even out one if need be. Participants and punters would soon learn the new method if implemented. seems unfair tbh. lets give railers box 1 everyweek gary1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe blogs 202 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 So who decide who is a wide runner and who is railer And with what your saying a dog that runs straight is only ever going to get 4 or 5 What happens when you have a dog that rails but runs off on the bends alltheway!!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emotive 306 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 The subject of seeding has been done to death on many other forums. This is how I see it. Most carded races will have few issues. Where seeding works is when a field is drawn that contains one or two dogs that have known offenders for want of a better word. A dog who has a known tendency to run hard right from the boxes, should automatically get box 8. The rest of the field is drawn as per usual. If there are two offenders, they go straight to 7 and 8. The same applies to dogs who go hard left, but in reverse. The same should apply to dogs who run off on the bends. Like I said most races will be drawn as per usual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmyb 277 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 So we have 3 major scouters in the same race. Draw 6,7 and 8. 2 hard failed a drawn 1 and 2 Who' to say that the 6 dog isn' the worst of the scouters but runs wide straight off the traps and connects with 7 and 8 Who run off turning for home? It' an idea that has it' merits but also has it' downfall. I'm not a fan of this theory. Will it work per dog per track as some dogs run wide first bend Auckland but not Cambridge. Hard railers that run off at wanganui first look? A railer that will hang off under pressure? Plenty of variables.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emotive 306 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 41 minutes ago, mmmyb said: So we have 3 major scouters in the same race. Draw 6,7 and 8. 2 hard failed a drawn 1 and 2 Who' to say that the 6 dog isn' the worst of the scouters but runs wide straight off the traps and connects with 7 and 8 Who run off turning for home? It' an idea that has it' merits but also has it' downfall. I'm not a fan of this theory. Will it work per dog per track as some dogs run wide first bend Auckland but not Cambridge. Hard railers that run off at wanganui first look? A railer that will hang off under pressure? Plenty of variables.. I totally get it and that's why there is always a sometimes heated convo on this subject. But the same applies to the status quo, no one agrees. In a race where a runner cuts straight across the face of the field (boxes) usually causing carnage, the ones who finish on the podium are usually the ones who missed the pile-up, the rest never had a chance. Some of these incidents result in serious injury. I can't pull my dogs out of these races, so I am being set up to fail, worse get an injury stand down. There has to be a better way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman 1,352 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 There has to be a better way, quote. Well the good news is, there is a better way, 2 dog fields. You can then have all the seeding you desire, mind you the stake money may take a dive, but that shouldn't deter all these feel good want to change everything people. Seeding cannot work in NZ or Australia, it can work in America, UK, or Macau because all the dogs are kenneled at the tracks and are trained by contract trainers so seeding is easy. Under the system used in NZ and Aust it cannot work, unless we are prepared to give away the right to train your own dogs, and seed all responsibility to Clubs to manage all aspects of training and keeping the Greyhounds. alltheway!!! and gary1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...