iteruka

Dead baiting NSW

197 posts in this topic

EM,

you picked the right name of emotive because that is all your rants above are. You go on about blood and guts and John should hand his license in if he persists in using it along with all the other trainers that cannot train their dogs without blood. My observations after years in the sport is that every trainer I know or have known is not doing this. I will bet my house that Aquaman is not either.  Your attack is an attack on all greyhound trainers in NZ until you can name the clean ones and the not so clean and sign your name to the list.

 

       You turned your reply to John into an unnecessary personal attack that does you no credit 

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51 minutes ago, GOM said:

EM,

you picked the right name of emotive because that is all your rants above are. You go on about blood and guts and John should hand his license in if he persists in using it along with all the other trainers that cannot train their dogs without blood. My observations after years in the sport is that every trainer I know or have known is not doing this. I will bet my house that Aquaman is not either.  Your attack is an attack on all greyhound trainers in NZ until you can name the clean ones and the not so clean and sign your name to the list.

 

       You turned your reply to John into an unnecessary personal attack that does you no credit 

Actually, I did not, he did. You have been quite selective in your reply, probably because a nerve was hit. He suggested in his previous posts that there is nothing wrong with using dead animals, roadkill, fresh skins etc to train greyhounds, even though to do so is illegal. Even went as far as saying everyone should ignore the rule because the rule is stupid. He advocated that the rule should be expunged.  I have never accused anyone here of blooding dogs, on the contrary. What I have done is questioned beliefs and outdated training mentality. What I did was give a valid argument against his stance. Public opinion, participant opinion, adoptee opinion, punter opinion, and the potential for abuse if the word "Dead" was removed from the rule. If you believe that an action which is illegal is OK, then I am at odds with your position and you to need to rethink your reasons for being part of the industry. I did not turn my reply into a personal attack or accuse him of anything else except short-sightedness. Suggesting that participants ignore the rules is far more detrimental to the sport than anything I have said.

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GOM, I'm not the one arguing for the reinstatement of an illegal practice. Nor will I ever make excuses for anyone who chooses to break or ignore the rules, or someone who encourages illegal behaviour. Those attitudes will bring us all down.

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1 minute ago, scooby3051 said:

Nothing is proven yet...stop jumping to conclusions... how many times do i need to spell it out.... enough.

Sorry Scooby none of what I said was related to the current case under investigation. It was a general comment.

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Em I enjoy your passion for the dogs, John is just as passionate about  them and would be the first to condemn anyone harming any animal. He just has a sense of common sense, justice and fairness. 

 It is difficult to try and find someone else's motives from a post but I imagined John was trying to point out that treating a person using a dead animal for whatever purpose the same as someone using a live one as bait ( fishermen do this all the time) is crazy. 

Your usually well thought out debate is beginning to look a bit unhinged. " Our greyhounds love to chase" you congratulated me on fostering this process at an early age but deride the same principal when you say it makes it harder to undo when they are retired. Maybe we should break them in the reverse way and take the chase out of them so "our greyhounds do not love to chase" so they can be bred just for GAP

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28 minutes ago, GOM said:

Em I enjoy your passion for the dogs, John is just as passionate about  them and would be the first to condemn anyone harming any animal. He just has a sense of common sense, justice and fairness. 

 It is difficult to try and find someone else's motives from a post but I imagined John was trying to point out that treating a person using a dead animal for whatever purpose the same as someone using a live one as bait ( fishermen do this all the time) is crazy. 

Your usually well thought out debate is beginning to look a bit unhinged. " Our greyhounds love to chase" you congratulated me on fostering this process at an early age but deride the same principal when you say it makes it harder to undo when they are retired. Maybe we should break them in the reverse way and take the chase out of them so "our greyhounds do not love to chase" so they can be bred just for GAP

:) I bare you no ill will. My greyhounds happily chase plastic shopping bags tied to a piece of string, they will chase a stuffed toy, a tumbleweed, even a large leaf. They chase because the object moves not because it was once alive. They graduate to chasing moving tanned sheepskin, some sleep on tanned sheepskins and still they chase. I have never had an issue with getting my dogs to chase, no animal scent required. I have asked valid questions about certain beliefs, and the appropriateness of those beliefs in 2017. If that has ruffled feathers then so be it. Our own beliefs, attitudes, and behaviours will see us sink or swim,  because we do not exist in isolation. 

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49 minutes ago, GOM said:

Our greyhounds love to chase" you congratulated me on fostering this process at an early age but deride the same principal when you say it makes it harder to undo when they are retired. Maybe we should break them in the reverse way and take the chase out of them so "our greyhounds do not love to chase" so they can be bred just for GAP

2

Again asking questions. There are many groups out there who are made up of adoptees, and potential adoptees. They are all talking. If you believe that baiting increases prey drive as has been mentioned in the news footage, then what effect would that have on potential adoptees? Who would put their hand up to adopt a dog that could possibly have been baited? Most of the country has seen or heard the current story. The adoption agencies are full to overflowing, seriously, does anyone believe this situation will not have those adoptees asking questions and possibly reconsidering whether they wish to proceed to adoption? If you believe baiting does not increase prey drive then why would you do it? The issue for me is this, can a dog who has been baited with scent from a skin differentiate in a retirement situation? I don't know, but I would hate to get that wrong. 

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3 hours ago, GOM said:

Em I enjoy your passion for the dogs, John is just as passionate about  them and would be the first to condemn anyone harming any animal. He just has a sense of common sense, justice and fairness. 

 It is difficult to try and find someone else's motives from a post but I imagined John was trying to point out that treating a person using a dead animal for whatever purpose the same as someone using a live one as bait ( fishermen do this all the time) is crazy. 

Your usually well thought out debate is beginning to look a bit unhinged. " Our greyhounds love to chase" you congratulated me on fostering this process at an early age but deride the same principal when you say it makes it harder to undo when they are retired. Maybe we should break them in the reverse way and take the chase out of them so "our greyhounds do not love to chase" so they can be bred just for GAP

To be honest take out the personal references in emotives replies and I think you are left with someone who talks a lot of sense and you would hope has some influence in directing your industry. Calling her debate unhinged then suggesting she has got too personal is a double standard.    

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I would like to take this chance  to thank You Scooby, for the effort you take to provide us all with a platform to be heard.     What is happening at present with the Greyhound Story is just the beginning   of which, is ,  in my opinion,  Justified.   I sincerely hope that all will turn out Positive for the Greyhound Sport, Likewise,  with all codes.    I face the J.C.A. tomorrow with charges that are concerned, and  alligned ,  to many posts that have been made on this very sensitive topic.   I have so far,  no reason to doubt that the R.I.U. and the the J.C.A.  have acted improperly in this instance but struggle to comprehend  why the N.Z.G.R.A. have targeted me over a matter that could have been settled with a phone call,  when they face a  far more serious situation  that was lodged before my charge and still has not been  actioned.   I am prepared after the Hearing tomorrow to give you the  raw facts, if that is okay with you?.. Sincerely Clarkie       

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20 minutes ago, clarkie said:

I would like to take this chance  to thank You Scooby, for the effort you take to provide us all with a platform to be heard.     What is happening at present with the Greyhound Story is just the beginning   of which, is ,  in my opinion,  Justified.   I sincerely hope that all will turn out Positive for the Greyhound Sport, Likewise,  with all codes.    I face the J.C.A. tomorrow with charges that are concerned, and  alligned ,  to many posts that have been made on this very sensitive topic.   I have so far,  no reason to doubt that the R.I.U. and the the J.C.A.  have acted improperly in this instance but struggle to comprehend  why the N.Z.G.R.A. have targeted me over a matter that could have been settled with a phone call,  when they face a  far more serious situation  that was lodged before my charge and still has not been  actioned.   I am prepared after the Hearing tomorrow to give you the  raw facts, if that is okay with you?.. Sincerely Clarkie       

clarkie  best of luck but why the f would riu would want to have anything to do with you  lets facei[t they have the full right to ban anyone  without the spca  investigation actually there weak squibs

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4 hours ago, GOM said:

 By the way how do you know emotive is a she?

With the risk of offending emotive,i just thought they sounded like a woman.

As far as the riu and nz greyhound association go,Is it just me, but don't they look mugs.

Lead story on the 10 pm radio news.  Now 7,yes 7, former employees who have come forward to say mr cole did this regularly. One man saying it was every week or fortnight when he was there.    Imagine that,all these witnesses yet none of the racing authorities could come up with any evidence. Hard to believe isn't it. Was this a cover up or are they that ineffectual.

Footnote. I have now just watched the latest tv story on you tube. Maybe its time the minister of racing stepped in as this is not going to end well if it continues to be handled  by racing authorities as it currently is.  Hard to believe so many learnt nothing from the Australian fiasco. 

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27 minutes ago, what a post said:

With the risk of offending emotive,i just thought they sounded like a woman.

As far as the riu and nz greyhound association go,Is it just me, but don't they look mugs.

Lead story on the 10 pm radio news.  Now 7,yes 7, former employees who have come forward to say mr cole did this regularly. One man saying it was every week or fortnight when he was there.    Imagine that,all these witnesses yet none of the racing authorities could come up with any evidence. Hard to believe isn't it. Was this a cover up or are they that ineffectual.

Footnote. I have now just watched the latest tv story on you tube. Maybe its time the minister of racing stepped in as this is not going to end well.  Hard to believe so many learnt nothing from the Australian fiasco.

Not offended.
And yes any sane person would have to agree with your thoughts based on what was presented.

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12 hours ago, gary1 said:

gom have you heard of anyone livebating in say last 20 years

Gary, heard about anything means nothing to me. I have not seen any evidence of it and that is the whole point of my posts on this subject. Gary do you believe everything you hear?

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7 hours ago, what a post said:

With the risk of offending emotive,i just thought they sounded like a woman.

As far as the riu and nz greyhound association go,Is it just me, but don't they look mugs.

Lead story on the 10 pm radio news.  Now 7,yes 7, former employees who have come forward to say mr cole did this regularly. One man saying it was every week or fortnight when he was there.    Imagine that,all these witnesses yet none of the racing authorities could come up with any evidence. Hard to believe isn't it. Was this a cover up or are they that ineffectual.

Footnote. I have now just watched the latest tv story on you tube. Maybe its time the minister of racing stepped in as this is not going to end well if it continues to be handled  by racing authorities as it currently is.  Hard to believe so many learnt nothing from the Australian fiasco. 

Maybe your post should have questioned why those 7 people have not come forward till now. If they had of this scenario we are talking about would not exist. How were racing authorities to know they existed. 

     The point should be that now an enquiry is under way it should be left to run it's course.

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26 minutes ago, GOM said:

Maybe your post should have questioned why those 7 people have not come forward till now. If they had of this scenario we are talking about would not exist. How were racing authorities to know they existed. 

     The point should be that now an enquiry is under way it should be left to run it's course.

I would say probably because of their age at the time they were employed Mike. Coming forward for anyone can be quite an ordeal, even more so if you are not taken seriously. 

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Just now, Emotive said:

I would say probably because of their age at the time they were employed Mike. Coming forward for anyone can be quite an ordeal, even more so if you are not taken seriously. 

Some are even labelled troublemakers when they do come forward wil legit complaints

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