Hastings Track Update

[Guest 2Admin2]

74mm of rain fell at the Hastings track from the abandonment of racing up until Tuesday evening October 10^th  Warm fine weather has seen the track improve quickly with a rating of a Good2 recorded this morning. Since racing was abandoned on Livamol Classic day the track has been vertidrained on the advice of NZTR’s Garry Foskett. 18-20mm of irrigation will be applied today Monday with the forecast for only the odd shower during the week. A horse will be galloped Wednesday morning and a decision on any further irrigation made then.

[chelseacol 2,488]

7 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

 the track has been vertidrained on the advice of NZTR’s Garry Foskett. 18-20mm of irrigation will be applied today Monday with the forecast for only the odd shower during the week. A horse will be galloped Wednesday morning and a decision on any further irrigation made then.

that horizontidrain wouldn't work as well I'm guessing 

[Guest 2Admin2]

I think they have made a mistake by letting it get to a Good 2 having not irrigated since last Tuesday.  Now they can only tinker.

[Insider 3,947]

1 hour ago, 2Admin2 said:

I think they have made a mistake by letting it get to a Good 2 having not irrigated since last Tuesday.  Now they can only tinker.

Agree 100%

 

[rdytdy 5,341]

If Hastings has been copping the strong winds we have in the Waikato over the past few days it would have been a futile exercise in watering. None of it would have gone on the track.  

 

[puha 2,177]

5 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

I think they have made a mistake by letting it get to a Good 2 having not irrigated since last Tuesday.  Now they can only tinker.

So you wanted them to irrigate while it was raining ?

[Leggy 4,076]

8 minutes ago, puha said:

So you wanted them to irrigate while it was raining ?

The 500 hectare dairy farm next door to me irrigates while it's raining and so do I. We irrigate until we achieve the required soil moisture levels.

[Shad 1,554]

What will be, will be, no use worrying to much about it, might be to firm for some or to soft for others, lets just hope we get through a whole days racing.

[Guest 2Admin2]

1 hour ago, puha said:

So you wanted them to irrigate while it was raining ?

According to their report it hasn't rained in a week.  The worst time to irrigate is during warm windy conditions.  

[Robert Best 175]

Its been warm and windy in Napier all day and looks like rest of week the same.

[puha 2,177]

1 hour ago, 2Admin2 said:

According to their report it hasn't rained in a week.  The worst time to irrigate is during warm windy conditions.  

It poured down last Monday 50 mm was light rain Tuesday and drizzling Wed  . 

[Guest 2Admin2]

Nomination Morning
Weather: Cloudy
Track: Dead 5
Rail: True | 20mm Irrigation yesterday
Weather and Track updated at 8.49am Tuesaday 17 October

[Whyisit 232]

Question for Berri

just want your views on the Vertidrainig they have done to the Hastings track .Dunno how much they have gone wide out with it .is there  meritin what they ave done. I’m just trying to engender some discussion on it in line in what you have said about condition of the track.

[rdytdy 5,341]

3 minutes ago, Whyisit said:

Question for Berri

just want your views on the Vertidrainig they have done to the Hastings track .Dunno how much they have gone wide out with it .is there  meritin what they ave done. I’m just trying to engender some discussion on it in line in what you have said about condition of the track.

Will you be walking it on Saturday Whyisit?  

[Whyisit 232]

22 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

Will you be walking it on Saturday Whyisit?  

Only the No1 Saturday .   10 mins should do it  just to stop it getting a little sour  lol      [are you Formpro's track walker Brendan']

But I'm serious about the the other.

[Berri 2,131]

1 hour ago, Whyisit said:

Question for Berri

just want your views on the Vertidrainig they have done to the Hastings track .Dunno how much they have gone wide out with it .is there  meritin what they ave done. I’m just trying to engender some discussion on it in line in what you have said about condition of the track.

I keep saying it...until someone with process completes a full VSA to gather the data, whether something or nothing should be done is a mute point. I'm an advocate of stopping guess work by collecting and analysing data. And if one more person suggests that Turf Tech are the answer, I'd simply respond by saying that they've already had a crack and have failed miserably at great cost.

[Whyisit 232]

12 minutes ago, Berri said:

I keep saying it...until someone with process completes a full VSA to gather the data, whether something or nothing should be done is a mute point. I'm an advocate of stopping guess work by collecting and analysing data. And if one more person suggests that Turf Tech are the answer, I'd simply respond by saying that they've already had a crack and have failed miserably at great cost.

I think I understand what you are saying.  I really just wanted to know what vertidraining really does. I know eight or nine years ago ago NZTR had someone go around most racetracks vertidraining 2or 3 weeks before race-day .that was after a period of slippery tracks and races being called off. 

Let's say you have done a full VSA on the hastings track  and say that it suggests it's subsoil and plant rooting is not up to standard and lacks sufficient humus content. How would you go about it remedying the track .

 

[mark burridge 14]

Steady rain falling in Hastings

 

[jack 429]

Hopefully this may or may not answer all doubts :

 

NZTR AND RIU MANAGEMENT HAVE DEVELOPED STANDARD ABANDONMENT PROTOCOLS THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED WHEN:

 

 A race/trial meeting is threatened with being abandoned prior to race/trial day; or

 

 Where the state of the racing surface or venue facility (as defined below) becomes an issue prior to racing/trialling starting on the day or during the race/trial meeting and the race/trial meeting either continues or is abandoned.

 

1.0 Race/Trial Meeting Abandonment Protocols Where there is a threat that a race/trial meeting is going to be abandoned the appropriate Situation Protocol (attached as Appendix 1-3) must be followed.

 

2.0 RIU Race/Trial Meeting Incident Reports In all circumstances where an incident has occurred or a hazard has been identified at a race or trial meeting the Chairman of Stewards in the case of a race meeting or Stipendiary Steward in charge in the case of a trial meeting must complete the RIU Race/Trial Meeting Incident Report on the day and forward a copy to nominated staff within NZTR, the RIU and the Club.

 

3.0 NZTR Race/Trial Meeting Abandonment Report Where a race or trial meeting is abandoned, the NZTR National Manager – Venue and Health and Safety Inspections will contact the venue’s General Manager/Chief Executive and obtain a detailed report on what work was carried out on the racing/trial surface in the last two weeks leading up to the race/trial meeting.

The NZTR National Manager – Venue and Health and Safety Inspections will produce a summary report based on information received from the RIU raceday inquiry, the club report and any input provided by the NZTR National Venue Inspector.

Based on the recommendations from this report, NZTR will instruct the Club to take all practical steps to ensure the situation is not repeated in the future.

Any press release concerning race/trial meeting abandonments will be coordinated between NZTR, the RIU and the Club.

 

 

https://www.nzracing.co.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/No.5 - NZTR and RIU Race and Trial Meeting Abandonment Protocols - August 2016.pdf

[rdytdy 5,341]

22 hours ago, mark burridge said:

Steady rain falling in Hastings

 

According to the NZTR website under Hastings track updates they haven't had any rain. 

Meeting News

Hawke's Bay RI | Sunday 22 October

 

Thursday Morning
Weather: Cloudy
Track: Dead 4
Rail: True | No Rain
Weather and Track updated at 9am Thursday 19 October

Withdrawal Morning
Weather: Overcast
Track: Dead 4
Rail: True | No Rain
Weather and Track updated at 8.45am Wednesday 18 October

Nomination Morning
Weather: Now Fine (Previously Cloudy @ 8.49am)
Track: Dead 5
Rail: True | 20mm Irrigation yesterday
Weather and Track updated at 11.15am Tuesday 17 October

[Berri 2,131]

On ‎17‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:12 PM, Whyisit said:

 

"Let's say you have done a full VSA on the hastings track  and say that it suggests it's subsoil and plant rooting is not up to standard and lacks sufficient humus content. How would you go about it remedying the track ."

 

In laymen's terms....

Soil is a community of living organisms, mainly being bacteria and fungus with the odd  non-arthropod invertebrate and insects stopping in at the inn. The fungus and bacteria are the most important organisms as they have the ability to influence the environmental performance of the soil. They make little "pods" within the soil that allow the conversion of minerals and moisture to be made available to other organisms and plants. These pods, if given the chance, form clusters which allows the relationship between aeration, nutrient transfer, water retention and efficient carbon retention to be maintained at an efficient level.

A plant, through photosynthesis, absorbs carbon through the conversion of CO2. This is expressed through root formation under the plant. These roots have a growth pattern, in that they expand and retract at certain times of the season, often as a result of water availability. They don't shrink, they die out, thereby leaving behind a carbon footprint in the form of humus. In the humus there are contained certain minerals and of course the microbes (fungus and bacteria). Just as important is their ability to store water.

Different plants have different behavioural patterns which often relate to the environment. Some have deep roots and others shallow. Having deep roots allows the plant to have access to minerals that might not be available at the top of the soil profile, and also have the ability to source water in conditions of duress.

Certain microbes are susceptible to death when exposed to abnormal quantities of chemical fertilisers and sprays. Each of these microbe sets have a specific job to do, which often are to ensure the availability of certain trace elements. If those microbes are destroyed, then the minerals that were bound to them are leached through the soil profile as there is no median on which to be bound. Once the mineral components are leached, those microbes that were essential to hold onto those elements cannot gain a foothold because the very element that were important to their survival aren't there.....a vicious cycle

In addition, if you have plants that are not able to provide you with your desired solution (i.e. deep roots, water resistant, good cushioning, good humus production etc), then you will never reach the optimal level of performance for your desired outcome (much like taking a photo with a disposable and hoping you'll have a perfect photo). We are after all trying to produce a good racing surface.

Add to this the modern fetish with irrigating tracks. If this is done incorrectly, then the plant's roots will never go deep. This will do two things.

The first is that the roots will remain at the surface, and with 5 tonnes of pressure by a horse's hoof pivoting on the ground with 18g of force, the top will be ripped out because the roots are too shallow and have no anchor. The second issue is that the roots wont go deep into the soil profile. This means that there is no humus (carbon) in the lower profile which means no biological performance....essentially a desert. If this has happened over time, then the roots will never go deep because there's nothing to go down deep for. This will exacerbate the water retention issue.

So to the idiots who have looked after the Hastings racecourse in the past and to this point, you have completely stuffed up the soil profile and haven't applied logical soil and plant husbandry processes that many of us are familiar with. No one listens. There has been, and still has not had, any science applied to this issue. It has cost the industry millions. It is not good enough fro Bernard to say we're using Turf Technology as our consultants. They have failed as they were part of the system when Hastings was cancelled in 2015 for exactly the same reasons as this year. This is manifestly wrong and we don't need anyone defending the status quo. They have failed.

I don't think many people have realised the damage. We used to see good horses race in this country as it was really good racing. Then we watched everything decline and Australia swallowed us up. Then Sam Kelt and Co thought it was a good idea to establish a race meet where instead of there being no lead up races to the Melbourne Carnival in New Zealand (so that we could at least wee some of our good horses at some stage), there was a purpose for those horses to hang around. They made the treble with the Kelt worth $1,000,000. It worked although it wrecked the pattern (another issue). It worked because we actually got Aussie horses to race here and there was a buzz in respect of the treble.

But with the demise of Sam's support, we lost the stakes which depressed the initial initiative of having some good horses race here. But now we have taken a better step to make sure we've stuffed that up too. In the past 3 years we've had 2 meetings either postponed or cancelled. What has that done?....It's made sure that those horses that MAY have raced in NZ before going to Aussie go straight to Aussie because their trainers and owners can't get guaranteed that the important lead up races for their horses can actually be run!!!!

Do you now get it? And I haven't even mentioned how much we've lost in lost betting earnings.....

That is why I get annoyed with people like you Whyisit. You don't actually really understand the mediocrity of the performance of everyone involved. It's at all levels.

Only the really stupid people think that things are going to change by not making change. This whole sordid debacle happened only 2 years ago which, for some weird reason, prompted the NZTR to get an independent assessment by none other than Bell Gully. What would they know about turf management? They are an Auckland law firm. Why wasn't that assessment done by a reknowned agronomy company who had experience in turf management. I do note that Jim Murphy was the turf expert then , and has since been retained by NZTR. So he has also failed. Does he lose his job? If he doesn't you'd want to know why.

[Pam Robson 1,547]

I don't always agree with your comments,  Berri - but that I found informative and on the button.

[Whyisit 232]

1 hour ago, Berri said:

In laymen's terms....

Soil is a community of living organisms, mainly being bacteria and fungus with the odd  non-arthropod invertebrate and insects stopping in at the inn. The fungus and bacteria are the most important organisms as they have the ability to influence the environmental performance of the soil. They make little "pods" within the soil that allow the conversion of minerals and moisture to be made available to other organisms and plants. These pods, if given the chance, form clusters which allows the relationship between aeration, nutrient transfer, water retention and efficient carbon retention to be maintained at an efficient level.

A plant, through photosynthesis, absorbs carbon through the conversion of CO2. This is expressed through root formation under the plant. These roots have a growth pattern, in that they expand and retract at certain times of the season, often as a result of water availability. They don't shrink, they die out, thereby leaving behind a carbon footprint in the form of humus. In the humus there are contained certain minerals and of course the microbes (fungus and bacteria). Just as important is their ability to store water.

Different plants have different behavioural patterns which often relate to the environment. Some have deep roots and others shallow. Having deep roots allows the plant to have access to minerals that might not be available at the top of the soil profile, and also have the ability to source water in conditions of duress.

Certain microbes are susceptible to death when exposed to abnormal quantities of chemical fertilisers and sprays. Each of these microbe sets have a specific job to do, which often are to ensure the availability of certain trace elements. If those microbes are destroyed, then the minerals that were bound to them are leached through the soil profile as there is no median on which to be bound. Once the mineral components are leached, those microbes that were essential to hold onto those elements cannot gain a foothold because the very element that were important to their survival aren't there.....a vicious cycle

In addition, if you have plants that are not able to provide you with your desired solution (i.e. deep roots, water resistant, good cushioning, good humus production etc), then you will never reach the optimal level of performance for your desired outcome (much like taking a photo with a disposable and hoping you'll have a perfect photo). We are after all trying to produce a good racing surface.

Add to this the modern fetish with irrigating tracks. If this is done incorrectly, then the plant's roots will never go deep. This will do two things.

The first is that the roots will remain at the surface, and with 5 tonnes of pressure by a horse's hoof pivoting on the ground with 18g of force, the top will be ripped out because the roots are too shallow and have no anchor. The second issue is that the roots wont go deep into the soil profile. This means that there is no humus (carbon) in the lower profile which means no biological performance....essentially a desert. If this has happened over time, then the roots will never go deep

That is why I get annoyed with people like you Whyisit. You don't actually really understand the mediocrity of the performance of everyone involved. It's at all levels.

I understand mediocrity I have to deal with it everyday .

now why I brought up about vertidraining to me it’s a waste of time if they don’t take the oppprtunity of benefitting of what they have done. I have never seen it in practice but have viewed promo,s of it operating and I immediately thought of what you had said earlier about depth of soil etc.

my reasoning is that if they have vertidrained and it has supposed breakup via vibration the hard panned surface and lower,you have the golden opportunity of getting an appropriate mixture of soil via the holes that the vertidrain has caused.It may be as simple cutting the grass short , vertidraining and top dress with a soil mixture brush over a couple of times with a set of brushes like the road ones towed behind an ATV . 

benefits are you can get some soil deep enough and through watering it should permeate the substructure of the surface,so you have got the start of hard panning disapating. Thee times in one year if it works would be a great start in helping to fix the track up.

Instead of the vertidrain holes sealing back over in time hardpanning you should have some aeration occurring and an median for moisture retention deep.

[porky 900]

The Bay weather is now playing the game for this time of the year,

Chance to dance and Mime may get their chance against da nuts on a good track...then again he may just wave goodbye, by 5, on his way to Melbourne  

[rdytdy 5,341]

28 minutes ago, porky said:

The Bay weather is now playing the game for this time of the year,

Chance to dance and Mime may get their chance against da nuts on a good track...then again he may just wave goodbye, by 5, on his way to Melbourne  

Gingernuts has started three times on good tracks for two wins including the NZ Derby. In his other run on a Good 2 track he finished fourth at Stratford and was a certainty beaten after shying at the winning post and finishing fourth. I don't think they can beat him tomorrow what ever the state of the track is.