When will they ever learn?

[Insider 3,960]

"You don't use a ground hog on a race track within two weeks of a race meeting" 

Quote: Noel Eales

[Scotch Thistle 133]

Yes, but would Noel Eales have been half as bright as Butch Castles, or have known half as much as Butch has forgotten?

[Ohokaman 5,841]

48 minutes ago, Insider said:

"You don't use a ground hog on a race track within two weeks of a race meeting" 

Quote: Noel Eales

Let alone during one.....

[Gruff 2,800]

It's beginning to seem like ground hog day regarding our tracks ....what gets me is how drawn out this became,as soon as there's something said about the track just can it because with Health and Safety there's no grey areas.

[We're Doomed 4,865]

The amazing thing is there are hardly any comments on here about the fiasco. Obviously everyone has become so used to it happening on the big days. Bit sad really.

[Whyisit 232]

12 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

The amazing thing is there are hardly any comments on here about the fiasco. Obviously everyone has become so used to it happening on the big days. Bit sad really.

That’s because they all got what they wanted prior to Raceday , minimal irrigation good three track so they can’t moan now. So with that they got the chance of losing the Raceday with very little rain causing the abandonment actually occurring.

I got laughed at, cried down ridiculed etc when I came on here after the 2nd day saying if they hadn’t watered and with the rain they got there was a 90 % chance having no race meeting.  I defended that decision to the hilt because now days you have produce a track that is SAFE for both horse and rider. 

They did that on the second day  and had a full days racing.

Took a risk on the last and paid for it.

 

[Crow 229]

Whyisit then they let the track go back to a Fast 1 between race meetings without keeping the irrigation going as their moisture meter would tell them, then to come out saying this is how NZTR want the management of the track regarding irrigation leading into race week. All their problems should and cant be solved in the week of the races, its all about time management and being proactive before that, one would think.

[napier 339]

33 minutes ago, Crow said:

Whyisit then they let the track go back to a Fast 1 between race meetings without keeping the irrigation going as their moisture meter would tell them, then to come out saying this is how NZTR want the management of the track regarding irrigation leading into race week. All their problems should and cant be solved in the week of the races, its all about time management and being proactive before that, one would think.

Exactly Crow........ as i have said before - let the track managers manage their tracks.....not someone sitting in an office (hours away) who thinks all tracks and weather patterns are the same !!!!!

[Whyisit 232]

35 minutes ago, Crow said:

Whyisit then they let the track go back to a Fast 1 between race meetings without keeping the irrigation going as their moisture meter would tell them, then to come out saying this is how NZTR want the management of the track regarding irrigation leading into race week. All their problems should and cant be solved in the week of the races, its all about time management and being proactive before that, one would think.

Not quite right there Crow they started irrigating for the 2nd day two Tuesday’s  before Raceday.  I get what you mean and 

maybe more irrigation should prevail between meetings then again it maybe a cost factor for the amount of water they use.

 

[jess 1,244]

.... is it possible that there was some pressure on the club from 1 or 2 prominent northern trainers to present a firm track?  ... so then leading up to raceday the club tried to accede to the request but when the weather didn't play ball ........... well we all know how the story ends .....

[porky 900]

I know nothing about track management...pleasantly surprised by the state of the track 2nd day (got it right obviously)

yesterday, Bloody rain on the day after a couple of weeks of dry windy weather. (hard for any track manager, dont envy them)

And yeah, after last weeks joke of thread on Hastings track, with all and sundry , know it all experts.

Then the jocks appear to view the patch of ground where the horses pull up quickly after the finish...(fair play, It,s their necks, on the line)

what riled me was the following.

• announcement...meeting put back a race...groundhog employed.
• rain stops and is obviously moving along ranges...brightens up out Havelock hills way... looking promising
• announcment...meeting abandoned  . (full-stop) no why ...suppose it was obvious... safety concerns.
• eventually Butch comes on track-side saying continued rain was a concern (had stopped)

To the clubs credit, (again, because of entertainment packages and on course betting... I suppose they were obliged to , but we continued

on and had an enjoyable day. very disappointing, but rules and wording adhered to...to the letter.  

[Crow 229]

1 hour ago, Whyisit said:

Not quite right there Crow they started irrigating for the 2nd day two Tuesday’s  before Raceday.  I get what you mean and 

maybe more irrigation should prevail between meetings then again it maybe a cost factor for the amount of water they use.

 

But remember they let the track go back to a Fast 1 before starting to irrigate for the second day also, they should know how the weather operates in the bay as it is always warmer there than most places.

[Whyisit 232]

5 hours ago, Crow said:

But remember they let the track go back to a Fast 1 before starting to irrigate for the second day also, they should know how the weather operates in the bay as it is always warmer there than most places.

That’s true but they bank on forecast rain eventuating but it doesn’t or to little.

[Insider 3,960]

To put it simply.....they have no idea on what they are doing, pure and simple. 

Hundreds of people and tens of thousands of their dollars have been squandered by the people in charge. 

I am sick and tired of their excuses.

Andrew, (also known as Butcher) said that all the correct protocol was followed, so he was happy. 

FFS it was a disaster, man made because of their actions, not this week (except by using the ground hog) or by the weather, but what they didn't do immediately after the previous weekend. 

When will they wake up? 

Liz

[Berri 2,131]

22 hours ago, Whyisit said:

That’s because they all got what they wanted prior to Raceday , minimal irrigation good three track so they can’t moan now. So with that they got the chance of losing the Raceday with very little rain causing the abandonment actually occurring.

I got laughed at, cried down ridiculed etc when I came on here after the 2nd day saying if they hadn’t watered and with the rain they got there was a 90 % chance having no race meeting.  I defended that decision to the hilt because now days you have produce a track that is SAFE for both horse and rider. 

They did that on the second day  and had a full days racing.

Took a risk on the last and paid for it.

 

Brendon you talk a lot of horse dung. Never heard as much Brendon. If you continue to water the tracks the way they have, you keep the roots shallow. If that happens then the top of the turf starts to clod with no stability. The club's choice was to water on the Wednesday 10mls when we saw the so called 10mls plus 7mls turn the track from a 5 to a 9 then you know the surface is screwed. So what do they do? Put 10mls on mid this week to make sure that the surface stays unstable....great thinking from some genius...did you suggest that Brendon? Then to exasperate things, let's keep the grass long to hopefully provide cushioning....,the job that the roots and humous should do...then god intervened and dropped a couple of mls. If you look at the problem patch, the closing was worse than anywhere else. If wasn't the grass that was the real problem...it was the unstable turf underneath . 

just to make sure you know, sent the NZTR and NZRB the forecast 10 days out. Showed a 38 percent chance of 1ml on race day starting at 9.00am. We revised this to little chance of rain to not quite accurate. That's why you need a station on course, you need to do VSAs to see what's going on in the soil and then manage the data in the future.

[Gruff 2,800]

Was it only the one part of the track that was the concern?? Gods intervention isn't to bad because he irrigates evenly,if the water or lack of was the main issue how come the other corner didn't have 120 people walking around prodding it? 

[Gruff 2,800]

I see Kilmore was abandoned today,a good track with a lush sole of grass. When you watch the replay of the First the horse who slips coming wide entering the straight does so mainly through interference it seemed( very lucky to stay upright I must add) no other horse had any issues?? If these tracks are that bad why are we not seeing multiple issues in large fields

[Gruff 2,800]

[Gruff 2,800]

[Gruff 2,800]

At what point can you blame circumstances with regards to these instances,these track managers have a tough job

[Whyisit 232]

10 hours ago, Berri said:

Brendon you talk a lot of horse dung. Never heard as much Brendon. If you continue to water the tracks the way they have, you keep the roots shallow. If that happens then the top of the turf starts to clod with no stability. The club's choice was to water on the Wednesday 10mls when we saw the so called 10mls plus 7mls turn the track from a 5 to a 9 then you know the surface is screwed. So what do they do? Put 10mls on mid this week to make sure that the surface stays unstable....great thinking from some genius...did you suggest that Brendon? Then to exasperate things, let's keep the grass long to hopefully provide cushioning....,the job that the roots and humous should do...then god intervened and dropped a couple of mls. If you look at the problem patch, the closing was worse than anywhere else. If wasn't the grass that was the real problem...it was the unstable turf underneath . 

just to make sure you know, sent the NZTR and NZRB the forecast 10 days out. Showed a 38 percent chance of 1ml on race day starting at 9.00am. We revised this to little chance of rain to not quite accurate. That's why you need a station on course, you need to do VSAs to see what's going on in the soil and then manage the data in the future.

Nice to see you pop again . What are you on because it certainly effects your rationale and ability to stick to the facts.

for your info  2nd  day. 14 mls Tuesday night  8 mls rain Thursday night another 7 mls rain Friday night/Saturday morning.  29mls in total.

3rd day     10 mls  Tuesday night       Gods 2 mls Saturday    Now tell me how it went from a Dead 3 to a Dead 6  with 2 mls of rain  .

certainly makes it easy to explain how it went from a 5 to a 9 with 7mls of rain.    

   Keep up the good work  you might figure out for yourself in time

 

 

 

[100 1 1,386]

Neeeeevvvvvveeeeeerrrrrrr irrigate in New Zealand September, October, November....ever heard of spring rain.....wettest winter for years.

Watch the turnovers plummet when the horses race off the rail in summer on shitty over watered tracks....biggest turn off ever for punters.

What does it tell you when nearly every lawn in the country is in better condition than our racetracks.

I wouldn't mind betting the car park was in better condition than the track on Saturday.

[Berri 2,131]

1 hour ago, Whyisit said:

Nice to see you pop again . What are you on because it certainly effects your rationale and ability to stick to the facts.

for your info  2nd  day. 14 mls Tuesday night  8 mls rain Thursday night another 7 mls rain Friday night/Saturday morning.  29mls in total.

3rd day     10 mls  Tuesday night       Gods 2 mls Saturday    Now tell me how it went from a Dead 3 to a Dead 6  with 2 mls of rain  .

certainly makes it easy to explain how it went from a 5 to a 9 with 7mls of rain.    

   Keep up the good work  you might figure out for yourself in time

 

 

 

I don't keep popping up you petulant child. This discussion is much to important to let everything slide once again. This is Ground Hog's Day from the same meeting in 2015. Nothing was done. The turf consultant Jim Murphy of Turf Tech has no idea on how to get Hawkes Bay racetrack right. That's now been proven and he's been paid since 2015.

Keep talking yourself into a mound of hay because you are obviously conflicted. You simply don't get that what ever you say or advise Brendon, you actually have no idea what-so-ever of what to do with a track to get it right. Start with a process and proceed to certified facts...there aren't any of those at the moment

Get a uniform weather station system for all courses so that there are no operational discrepancies;

Put a bunch of soil moisture/ temp sensors to ensure that you know data wise what the surface is doing;

Do a full VSA to understand soil structure, mineralisation and biological status;

Look at the grass samples to see what good/ bad grasses are present. You may put up a drone to make some spectral analysis of chlorophyll production to fully understand the plant distribution;

If you really wanted to answer questions of potential pan structure (the referred to document in another thread produced by Bell Gully in 2015 said there was no pan), get  ground truth radar system in to see what the underground structure is like;

Anything else will disclose ignorant, baseless and uneducated opinions such as yours Brendon, in respect of what the track management should be.

 

 

[Patiti 274]

Has following the Bell Gully report got us to where we are today OR have we just made the same mistakes again.

[Guest 2Admin2]

7 hours ago, Berri said:

I don't keep popping up you petulant child. This discussion is much to important to let everything slide once again. This is Ground Hog's Day from the same meeting in 2015. Nothing was done. The turf consultant Jim Murphy of Turf Tech has no idea on how to get Hawkes Bay racetrack right. That's now been proven and he's been paid since 2015.

Keep talking yourself into a mound of hay because you are obviously conflicted. You simply don't get that what ever you say or advise Brendon, you actually have no idea what-so-ever of what to do with a track to get it right. Start with a process and proceed to certified facts...there aren't any of those at the moment

Get a uniform weather station system for all courses so that there are no operational discrepancies;

Put a bunch of soil moisture/ temp sensors to ensure that you know data wise what the surface is doing;

Do a full VSA to understand soil structure, mineralisation and biological status;

Look at the grass samples to see what good/ bad grasses are present. You may put up a drone to make some spectral analysis of chlorophyll production to fully understand the plant distribution;

If you really wanted to answer questions of potential pan structure (the referred to document in another thread produced by Bell Gully in 2015 said there was no pan), get  ground truth radar system in to see what the underground structure is like;

Anything else will disclose ignorant, baseless and uneducated opinions such as yours Brendon, in respect of what the track management should be.

 

 

All well and good Berri pushing your science but the fundamental problem is the soil structure.  There is no buffer in the soil and the margins between good and bad management are very very narrow and in my opinion within the margin of error in your science.