Midget 4,489 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 Not sure you'll ever see me defending the Ellerslie track Insider, I'm totally in to Avondale as the best track in this area. Where I defend Ellerslie is their bank balance, their collateral revenue streams, business acumen, real estate developments, and their future prospects. If it matters I think their track is rubbish, but it's still far better than Trentham. You guys need help, but you're like the local drunken alcoholic, you can't see that you're sick and you still think you're doing ok, so there's no point in trying to help you until you accept that you have a problem. Go have a look in the mirror, ask the hard questions and be honest with yourself Liz. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 59 minutes ago, Leggy said: For a reason. A complete and total lack of investment in tracks going on 30 years now. $24m being borrowed on a prayer. All wasted on stakes. Meanwhile, betting interest, turnover and revenue on NZ racing remain in a tailspin. Brilliant stuff. You get what you pay for. Clearly you don't own a horse. Owners have been taking it up the arse for years & still do to a significant degree. The money is not wasted on stakes, it goes some way to looking after the poor bastards who funds the bloody show. Yes I know that tracks, infrastructure, the punter, jockeys and trainers have also taken it up the bum for years because of shitful mismanagement, you might struggle to understand this but increasing stakes filters to Owners, Trainers & Jockeys. Now if you are suggesting the borrowed money would be better spent on tracks or infrastructure you are in lala land, you can have the nicest facilities, surfaces etc but its no farking good if no one wants to race a horse on it. No business looking to resurrect itself spends money in this area, it spends on its core group first, & in racing's case its Owners, Punters, Trainers & Jockeys. This business is in a tailspin downwards & the last thing you would do is try and improve something that is not going to add a single $ to your take, at least throwing some money at the core group of 4 above as I suggest gives some hope. Huey, chevy86 and Insider 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauhei Notts 1,403 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 Trentham in winter. It used to be the place where the tough bastards got going. Tough bastards sired by the likes of Contact, Kurdistan, Red Jester and Head Hunter. But it has proven terribly uneconomic to breed tough bastards these days. And one of the reasons is that when conditions suit the tough ones, the administrators pull the pin. Somebody commented that Wellington has had bad weather recently. Wellington has bad weather 360 days of the year. The other five days are what makes it the most beautiful city in the world. Memphis2, hedley and Huey 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 40 minutes ago, barryb said: Clearly you don't own a horse. Owners have been taking it up the arse for years & still do to a significant degree. The money is not wasted on stakes, it goes some way to looking after the poor bastards who funds the bloody show. Yes I know that tracks, infrastructure, the punter, jockeys and trainers have also taken it up the bum for years because of shitful mismanagement, you might struggle to understand this but increasing stakes filters to Owners, Trainers & Jockeys. Now if you are suggesting the borrowed money would be better spent on tracks or infrastructure you are in lala land, you can have the nicest facilities, surfaces etc but its no farking good if no one wants to race a horse on it. No business looking to resurrect itself spends money in this area, it spends on its core group first, & in racing's case its Owners, Punters, Trainers & Jockeys. This business is in a tailspin downwards & the last thing you would do is try and improve something that is not going to add a single $ to your take, at least throwing some money at the core group of 4 above as I suggest gives some hope. What's the point of better stakes when you don't have a track to race on safely? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Huey said: Disappointing but understandable, I just wish they'd find a place to hold the Parliamentary and Whyte Handicaps, both time honoured winter classics in my view. Sadly I don't think anyone gives much of a stuff about tradition these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut 3,140 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 11 minutes ago, Tauhei Notts said: Trentham in winter. It used to be the place where the tough bastards got going. Tough bastards sired by the likes of Contact, Kurdistan, Red Jester and Head Hunter. But it has proven terribly uneconomic to breed tough bastards these days. And one of the reasons is that when conditions suit the tough ones, the administrators pull the pin. Somebody commented that Wellington has had bad weather recently. Wellington has bad weather 360 days of the year. The other five days are what makes it the most beautiful city in the world. Remember Cuss Tauhei ? ... now he loved the Trentham mud if his nose got any lower when he ran it would have been dipped in it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said: What's the point of better stakes when you don't have a track to race on safely? The point is, No Owners, No Racing. Regardless of what the track looks like. I am not suggesting we ignore fixing tracks which are clearly shagged across the country, but expected today's owners to keep taking it up the arse in an effort to repair f-ups of the past is unfair and unsustainable. Insider and We're Doomed 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Leggy said: For a reason. A complete and total lack of investment in tracks going on 30 years now. $24m being borrowed on a prayer. All wasted on stakes. Meanwhile, betting interest, turnover and revenue on NZ racing remain in a tailspin. Brilliant stuff. You get what you pay for. I don't think money is wasted on stakes. I do think the distribution of stakes is poor. Stakes is pretty much a short term view. The industry is trying to keep ticking over by increasing stakes so we can survive for another year. A forward thinking industry would be revitalising existing tracks and building new tracks as they do in Australia. I suppose to some extent we can't afford that luxury. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 1 minute ago, We're Doomed said: I don't think money is wasted on stakes. I do think the distribution of stakes is poor. Stakes is pretty much a short term view. The industry is trying to keep ticking over by increasing stakes so we can survive for another year. A forward thinking industry would be revitalising existing tracks and building new tracks as they do in Australia. I suppose to some extent we can't afford that luxury. A forward thinking profitable industry would be doing as you suggest, yes. however an industry shagged and close to its last legs & looking to resurrect itself doesn't f--k over the very people who ensure its day to day survival. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Huey said: Disappointing but understandable, I just wish they'd find a place to hold the Parliamentary and Whyte Handicaps, both time honoured winter classics in my view. You might be interested to know Huey that 30 years ago the Whyte was worth $45,000 and the Parliamentary was worth $50,000. At the same time the Winter Cup at Riccarton was $50,000. Now the Winter Cup has staggered its way to $100,000 while the Whyte and Parliamentary have gone backwards to $40,000. Shows probably what importance the Wgtn RC places in tradition and how poorly the club is performing. Can you imagine any other "sport" where the value of an event has dropped 25% over 30 years. Huey and barryb 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,881 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, We're Doomed said: A forward thinking industry would be revitalising existing tracks and building new tracks as they do in Australia. Are you are talking about Eagle Farm, Randwick, possibly Flemington? Maybe we should get their track designers over here? Yeah right! Memphis2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, We're Doomed said: You might be interested to know Huey that 30 years ago the Whyte was worth $45,000 and the Parliamentary was worth $50,000. At the same time the Winter Cup at Riccarton was $50,000. Now the Winter Cup has staggered its way to $100,000 while the Whyte and Parliamentary have gone backwards to $40,000. Shows probably what importance the Wgtn RC places in tradition and how poorly the club is performing. Can you imagine any other "sport" where the value of an event has dropped 25% over 30 years. The two above mentioned races actually dropped too 25 k each a couple of years ago . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 19 minutes ago, Insider said: Are you are talking about Eagle Farm, Randwick, possibly Flemington? Maybe we should get their track designers over here? Yeah right! I was actually thinking of Pakenham, which cost about $70 million for the whole complex, Geelong, Newcastle, who spent $11 million on the track itself, and Caloundra which is one of my favourite tracks. Pakenham races about 50 times a year, Caloundra every week. MrBigStuff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 Sorry BarryB, I have to disagree but also ( )agree with your statement, "Without Owners there's no etc etc...". It's the old story Pal. You need Owners for sure but you need Punters also. It's the old chicken and egg quandary. Which comes first? The punters provide "All" or "Most" of the revenue. You need Breeders, Trainers, Jockeys, Administrators, Tracks, Facilities etc etc. It's not a matter of "Who's more Important", it's about jellying it into one, cohesive, workable business model, with each facet complementing the others. There's no point in pinning your banner just to Stakes. You're correct and I understand your thinking, but it has to fit in with the overall picture. No point having a canvas if you have no paints - and vice versa. Clearly, there are huge problems that need addressing in NZ Racing. Infrastructure is just one example, stakes another. Leggy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 Certainly don't disagree with you at all Trump. Punters are vitally important for sure and have been largely ignored for decades. The reason I focus on owners is they fit across all spectrums of the industry, (Punters, Trainers, Admin, Breeders, Jockeys and so on) ignore them and you ignore everyone. Pay them more and most of the money will filter through most sectors of the industry and be re-invested in it. Owners by and large are the saviours of on-course racing today & yep we all know on-course is a dead duck esp at this time of year, however to degrade further the on-course experience for owners will raise the white flag. Huey and chevy86 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 No ones disagreeing with that Hesi & its not a case either of who is more important or deserving or whatever. The reality is putting money into owners puts money into almost everybody in the industry, assists with product retention & expansion which ultimately helps the punter as well. Laurie Sutherland and Insider 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 11 hours ago, We're Doomed said: You might be interested to know Huey that 30 years ago the Whyte was worth $45,000 and the Parliamentary was worth $50,000. At the same time the Winter Cup at Riccarton was $50,000. Those were the days my friend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted July 14, 2017 The interesting thing is, punters can bet on Australian, Hong Kong and S'pore race meetings. All excellent products. They probably don't need NZ racing - unless they want to attend on Saturdays (a dieing breed outside carnivals). But it is a sustainable Industry that forms part of the economic fabric of NZ, providing employment, taxes, entertainment, etc. It's for these reasons that both the Govt and NZTR(NZRB?) should share an awareness of the huge opportunities available and capitalise on them. No pretending you know everything, employing your weaknesses and having a clear pathway with that single goal in mind. ie, To have a viable, profitable, sustainable Industry, within which all participants are enjoying a livelihood. It's a big ask, but certainly some radical change is needed if the Industry is to thrive. The current costing model would be a good starting point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 15, 2017 Te Rapa today sums up the situation perfectly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patiti 274 Report post Posted July 15, 2017 A beautiful sunny day in the capital and the track at Trentham should be good to go. There was no general flooding in the area so I am still at a loss as to why the track got so bad. Does anyone know how it is today????????????????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted July 15, 2017 1 hour ago, barryb said: Te Rapa today sums up the situation perfectly. Those hardy souls at the pic-nic table deserve a $20 betting voucher each...C,mon TAB, these promotion opportunities are dwindling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 15, 2017 There was a stag party at the races and they left it behind outside for 1 race. There was a decent group of them and they were getting heavily tanked towards the end of the day, but looked to be having a great time. Chestnut 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerbelle 79 Report post Posted July 16, 2017 The "water jump" on Friday: https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/94731056/trenthams-big-jumps-day-falls-victim-to-storm-sweeping-country Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted July 19, 2017 Trentham should be racing toDay shouldn't they ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted July 19, 2017 ..the Parliamentry Handicap and the Whyte Handicap are two features that should be 'raced for' Huey and elbow 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...