RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
MrBigStuff

Starter G Phillips

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22 hours ago, barryb said:

To be fair, the horse was being a complete bastard at the start and they had him about 10 mtrs away from the rest. unclipped and then went back and sideways.

 

Not sure whether our interpretations are the same. Yep...the horse was being a prick and needed a decent smarten up but the environment didn't help. If you watch the UK jumping races (and I've seen thousands of them), they have a protocol. It's very consistent and the horses are trained to embrace the protocol. Admit you do have the odd mongrel horse that is either a mongrel or has been trained by a trainer to make it a mongrel. But the race start protocol holds firm. Quite large circles on an area of the track that is primed for this, a speed at which the jocks control their horses so that the start can occur and a definite structure as to when they are expected to start. At Trentham I just saw a shambles. So this was either the starter's misinterpretation of the starting procedures or the NZTR hasn't clearly outlined the expected protocols so that the trainers and jocks know what to expect. Which one is it?

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Whilst flag starts have come into being at every track for steeplechases this season Garry Phillips has been doing flag starts at Trentham for years without a problem. So it is a bit harsh to blame him when the horse itself was being a moron. Very difficult to call them back with that first jump so very close to the start also.

I have seen jockeys dislodged at the start when coming out of the barriers with horses going sideways and cannoning into another (no suggestions of doing away with barrier starts)so a bit rough jumping up and down over this one instance from a flag start.

 

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1 hour ago, Berri said:

Not sure whether our interpretations are the same. Yep...the horse was being a prick and needed a decent smarten up but the environment didn't help. If you watch the UK jumping races (and I've seen thousands of them), they have a protocol. It's very consistent and the horses are trained to embrace the protocol. Admit you do have the odd mongrel horse that is either a mongrel or has been trained by a trainer to make it a mongrel. But the race start protocol holds firm. Quite large circles on an area of the track that is primed for this, a speed at which the jocks control their horses so that the start can occur and a definite structure as to when they are expected to start. At Trentham I just saw a shambles. So this was either the starter's misinterpretation of the starting procedures or the NZTR hasn't clearly outlined the expected protocols so that the trainers and jocks know what to expect. Which one is it?

Well I suggest you hop up(or down) to K Myer's place and give him a heads up on how to train his horses for this protocol.  I am sure he will be receptive.

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2 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Well I suggest you hop up(or down) to K Myer's place and give him a heads up on how to train his horses for this protocol.  I am sure he will be receptive.

LOL...Thats what I like about K.Myers...Down to earth, calls a spade a spade and his record speaks for itself.

Who knows...He was probably cursing the mongrel as well Berri !  (I didn,t see the race in question) , 

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4 hours ago, rumpole said:

rubbish  dont you know the difference between Knew and new

/

if you dont watch many gallops stay off this site

Yes I do no, oops know how to spell. You clearly have bad superiority complex issues. If belittling others make you feel better then good for you. I've often thought you come across as a sanctimonious twat. Your comments just confirm my opinion.   

  If you or anyone else on here cant accept some expressing negative comment about the way they started the race in question then you are fools.  It appears ok for you to accept sub standard work, just because defending the starters actions is fashionable or he may be your mate.  

 Here's  a novel suggestion for you . How about next time you discuss the topic. 

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2 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Well I suggest you hop up(or down) to K Myer's place and give him a heads up on how to train his horses for this protocol.  I am sure he will be receptive.

Hope you understand the proposition but for the sake of expediency, I am not blaming Dummy but a review on the process of this form of starting should be had on each course. At Trentham, it would seem that the first fence is extremely close to the start and the area in which the horses mill around would seem not be be designed correctly for this activity to take place.

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On 6/15/2017 at 1:27 PM, rdytdy said:

How many years have they been having flag starts there without a problem Berri. Over thirty isn't it. One incident and even the RIU want barrier starts. Talk about an over reaction. 

There is no better time to improve things like the present. What would we try to do if we knew we could do everything? It is logical that protocols are reviewed to try and improve things. Are you that complacent that logical criticism is defended by stating that because things have been done in the past they should be alright for the future?!?

Now that's what I call progressive thinking... ...not No wonder this industry is fucked.

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44 years flag starts for steeplechases at Trentham Berri. One incident and the RIU want barrier starts for steeplechases which was my point.  

Nothing wrong with reviewing flag start protocols but RIU wanting barrier starts is an over reaction particularly when they were involved with the change to flag starts at all courses from the start of the season.

  

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On 6/11/2017 at 5:18 PM, rdytdy said:

Whilst flag starts have come into being at every track for steeplechases this season Garry Phillips has been doing flag starts at Trentham for years without a problem. So it is a bit harsh to blame him when the horse itself was being a moron. Very difficult to call them back with that first jump so very close to the start also.

I have seen jockeys dislodged at the start when coming out of the barriers with horses going sideways and cannoning into another (no suggestions of doing away with barrier starts)so a bit rough jumping up and down over this one instance from a flag start.

 

Do you see you point Ted around the barriers but can’t accept there’s as much risk of not getting a fair start jumping from the barriers as an open start. In my humble opinion when you get a number of horses milling around freely in an open space there’s always going to be more chance of something going wrong than when they are confined, as they have been taught to be. And as it’s fairer, not only is there more chance for things to go wrong in an open barrier but as I said in an earlier post there’s more opportunity for a start to be manipulated. 

Interestingly, and going back to my comment about being confined in the barriers, I am aware that one of the arguments for open starts is that it gives horses that may be barrier rogues an opportunity to continue racing. The horses are generally the exception rather than the rule but I do understand what is trying to be achieved there. I would question though if the exception should dictate what happens over those that have conformed to the rule. By way of example I am fortunate to have a small share in a handy hurdler. I’m sure he will be steeplechasing one day and I hope he gets to contest the major races. He can get a wee bit fired up though and I’d suggest it’s “highly likely” (please excuse the pun!) the old wheels will start turning in an open barrier and he’ll be difficult to control. So he’s disadvantaged in favour of the horse who can’t conform to the rules of being barrier compliant. Is that fair? You’ll remember the old days Ted when the barrier rogues used to start from the outside of the gates, was pretty unfair in flat races I agree but it could work in steeplechases (?). 

In closing I can’t see one argument for not having barriers that supersedes having them. I know it’s said it saves the track by not having to drag them around the course in the middle of winter but really? They do it for all the flat races, what’s a few more in the sake of fairness, equity and professionalism. 

I do hope the open starts steeplechases at Trentham go well today, but even if they do I’ll never agree they are right as in their current format there are still disadvantages presented – as well as unnecessary risk.

 

Cheers

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On 15/06/2017 at 1:27 PM, rdytdy said:

How many years have they been having flag starts there without a problem Berri. Over thirty isn't it. One incident and even the RIU want barrier starts. Talk about an over reaction. 

Teddy the RIU  are very short in the perceptive area.  In fact they have virtually

none and they lack any perspicacity. They waste money like it is going out of fashion

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