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jeepers

Cape Blanco

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6 hours ago, jeepers said:

Well would you believe it this stallion has left a winner in NZ. Is this his first winner in NZ? How many got ripped off with the $22000 service fee?

Don Blanco

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23 hours ago, jeepers said:

Well would you believe it this stallion has left a winner in NZ. Is this his first winner in NZ? How many got ripped off with the $22000 service fee?

Not quite correct but hasn't been successful at all but Not quite first winner,has had 4 in Aussie and 4 in NZ!

Being a good racehorse doesn't mean being a good stallion!

Overall is running at 41% winners to runners worldwide but has only sired 1 stakeswinner from 225 runners!!!!

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Galileo obviously one of the best sires ever but who have been his best sire sons so far? I know Frankel has made a promising start.

Why are Coolmore no longer standing Rip Van W in Ireland?

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On ‎15‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 2:54 PM, jeepers said:

Well would you believe it this stallion has left a winner in NZ. Is this his first winner in NZ? How many got ripped off with the $22000 service fee?

jeepers don't really understand your agenda for bagging this stallion, but agree he has had a slow start. FYI based on Arions Pedigrees stats he has had 7 winners in NZ/Aus. In reality none of the stallions whose oldest are 3YO now are really setting the world on fire thought 2 or 3 are on the improve.

Mattski I think Windsor may have bought RVW off Coolmore. Overall Galileo not going that well as a sire of sires in this part of the world, and was a comparative failure when he stood in Aus. It would pay to note Sadlers Wells had a fairly slow start as a sire of sires as well but kicked back so who knows?

 

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When we discuss a Sire we discuss far too much the Sireline of the Sire and not enough of the Broodmare sireline or the horses female line.

Cape Blanco's broodmare sireline is Secretariat who was outstanding as a broodmare sire but disappointing as a sire of sires.

I never saw Cape Blanco in the flesh but I didn't like the stallion registrar image. 

It is early days but I pick Nathaniel to be a huge chance and he will give Frankel a run for his money. I pick both to surpass Teofilo.

Nathaniel so far has 6 stakes performers from his 2yo crop. I expect them to do very well as 3yos.

Rip Van Winkle is doing a nice enough job in New Zealand.

Kermedec by Teofilo also a chance in the future.

Galileo's sire sons include Teofilo (65), New Approach (30), Rip Van Winkle (15), Roderic O'Connor (11), Soldier of Fortune (9), Frankel (8), Yazamaan (7), Sixties Icon (7), Cima de Triomphe, Heliostatic, Red Rocks, Discorsi, Cape Blanco, Nathaniel, etc.

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56 minutes ago, Nasrullah said:

When we discuss a Sire we discuss far too much the Sireline of the Sire and not enough of the Broodmare sireline or the horses female line.

Cape Blanco's broodmare sireline is Secretariat who was outstanding as a broodmare sire but disappointing as a sire of sires.

 

Adding to your summary, Cape Blancos dam sire Presidum was a complete flop. Only sired 2 stakes winners from 256 horses to race, and his broodmare sire record is only 3 stakeswinners which includes Cape Blanco and his half brother.

 

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I have a Cape Blanco colt on the ground rising 4 year old and just maturing now and an absolute stunner to look at. I also saw the stallion himself and was impressed (not as good looking as Makfi) but I would not spend that kind of money without seeing where it was going. I also had an Irishman visit 3 years ago tell me that the Japanese had already been looking at his weanlings in Ireland. They obviously had an eye on him all along and I would not like to say that the Japanese do not know what they're doing?? They also got Makfi.

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Dwyn - good call re Teofilo!   It will be interesting how many decent staying types Cape B leaves as 4-5 yr olds.

I guess at the end of the day around 8 out of 10 stallions are commercial failures? Even lots with good credentials.

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19 hours ago, psyc said:

I have a Cape Blanco colt on the ground rising 4 year old and just maturing now and an absolute stunner to look at. I also saw the stallion himself and was impressed (not as good looking as Makfi) but I would not spend that kind of money without seeing where it was going. I also had an Irishman visit 3 years ago tell me that the Japanese had already been looking at his weanlings in Ireland. They obviously had an eye on him all along and I would not like to say that the Japanese do not know what they're doing?? They also got Makfi.

The Japanese have been buying the best bloodlines for a while but that does not mean they do not get stallion flops!!  They get their fair share of big failures.

So just because the Japanese liked his weanlings does not mean he is going to be successful.

One recent example of an expensive failure was Conduit. The best son of Dalakhani out of Sadler's Wells mare.

CONDUIT (05c, Sadler's Wells, Irish River). Champion 3YO Stayer in GB in 2008 & Champion Older Male in GB in 2009 (Long). Champion Turf Male in USA in 2008.7 wins-1 at 2-from 8¾f to 14¾f, £1,046,544, €228,400, US$3,240,000, 38,000,000¥, Ascot King George VI & Queen Elizabeth S., Gr.1, Breeders' Cup Turf S., Gr.1-twice, The St Leger, Gr.1, Goodwood Gordon S., Gr.3, Epsom Totesportcasino.com H., 2d Royal Ascot King Edward VII S., Gr.2, Sandown Brigadier Gerard S., Gr.3, 3d Sandown Eclipse S., Gr.1,

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On 5/16/2017 at 7:03 PM, BruceL said:

Adding to your summary, Cape Blancos dam sire Presidum was a complete flop. Only sired 2 stakes winners from 256 horses to race, and his broodmare sire record is only 3 stakeswinners which includes Cape Blanco and his half brother.

 

Pure RUST

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It seems in general that quality sprinter-milers (per Waikato stud policy) have a better chance of making good quality stallions esp down under. Obviously there are always exceptions like High Chap.

Fair summary?

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Frankel gets his first Group One winner and a huge on tonight- Soul Stirring wins the Japanese Oaks.

Nathaniel gets another stakes winner this week.

As mentioned previously these to do have dominant female lines.

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Apart from Teofilo, Galileo is a disappointment as a sire of sires. When you consider that he had 26 group one winning colts go to stud....most are producing good jumpers that need the sting out of the track.

Jury is still out on Frankel. 69 group winning mares (28 of them group one) and 60 odd group horses or dams of group horses, He needed to produce multiple serious good horses simply based on the mares that he had. Every time they go into a group one race they get beat apart from the filly in Japan and she recently got beat. A very very good one in France though won a maiden and is a champion.

Funny that Frankel and Nathaniel met on their first starts and Frankel won by a neck

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11 hours ago, Berri said:

 A very very good one in France though won a maiden and is a champion.

Interested in following this maiden winner that's been declared a champion from it!,

I hate the overuse of the term "champion" that gets given to race horses, I do agree with you saying that he looks "a very very good one", and he does look very promising indeed, hopefully goes on with it and becomes a "champion"

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If he doesn't hurt himself or has an issue, he will be rated the best of his ilk. I have his data. Nothing short of sensational. Unfortunately statistically 85% of "champions" are damaged before they realise their real potential. The other one to watch is the half brother to Zoffany. Quite special as well.

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3 minutes ago, Berri said:

If he doesn't hurt himself or has an issue, he will be rated the best of his ilk. I have his data. Nothing short of sensational. Unfortunately statistically 85% of "champions" are damaged before they realise their real potential. The other one to watch is the half brother to Zoffany. Quite special as well.

With all respect I'm not doubting your theorys/data as you are a good judge, but surely the term "champion" can be saved until the results are on the board and a horse has finished racing and deserves that status?

Many horses don't reach their "potential" due to several different reasons but I would rather race record rather than data before declaring a horse a champion.

Will keep an eye on the half brother to Zoffany also thanks for that, always like keeping an eye on your "ones to watch" in the northern hemisphere!

 

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12 hours ago, Nasrullah said:

Frankel gets his first Group One winner and a huge on tonight- Soul Stirring wins the Japanese Oaks.

 

What a pedigree Soul Stirring has,

By Frankel out of Stacelita (Monsun), Stacelita won 6 Group 1's including the French Oaks.

Soul Stirring is now a G1 winner at a Mile at 2 , as well as winning an Oaks at 3 over 2400m

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On 2017-5-19 at 7:15 AM, Mattski said:

It seems in general that quality sprinter-milers (per Waikato stud policy) have a better chance of making good quality stallions esp down under. Obviously there are always exceptions like High Chap.

Fair summary?

Not really, There have been the likes of Montjeu, Savabeel that have been more than sprinter/ Milers. I think the term you are looking for is a stallion that can produce a "turn of foot"

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12 hours ago, BruceL said:

With all respect I'm not doubting your theorys/data as you are a good judge, but surely the term "champion" can be saved until the results are on the board and a horse has finished racing and deserves that status?

Many horses don't reach their "potential" due to several different reasons but I would rather race record rather than data before declaring a horse a champion.

Will keep an eye on the half brother to Zoffany also thanks for that, always like keeping an eye on your "ones to watch" in the northern hemisphere!

 

The interesting thing is that "champions" based on data are very rare. Europe has a couple of them per year but one in 10 get wrecked to some degree. When you see cracking data, it either is or isn't a champion. It's then up to human beings to get them there. Very good trainers can direct these horses to become them. Caravaggio is as good a sprinter as Black Caviar but that doesn't mean he will get there because he needs good luck and management. Frankel was a champion (labelled him on this site before he raced) but he had the luck and management. The horse I am talking about is called Straight Shooter. Just remember him

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On 2017-5-16 at 0:36 PM, fitzy said:

jeepers don't really understand your agenda for bagging this stallion, but agree he has had a slow start. FYI based on Arions Pedigrees stats he has had 7 winners in NZ/Aus. In reality none of the stallions whose oldest are 3YO now are really setting the world on fire thought 2 or 3 are on the improve.

Mattski I think Windsor may have bought RVW off Coolmore. Overall Galileo not going that well as a sire of sires in this part of the world, and was a comparative failure when he stood in Aus. It would pay to note Sadlers Wells had a fairly slow start as a sire of sires as well but kicked back so who knows?

 

If I paid $22K for a service fee I would like to see some horses starting to show some ability.

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On 5/22/2017 at 9:38 AM, Berri said:

If he doesn't hurt himself or has an issue, he will be rated the best of his ilk. I have his data. Nothing short of sensational. Unfortunately statistically 85% of "champions" are damaged before they realise their real potential. The other one to watch is the half brother to Zoffany. Quite special as well.

Disappinted with Rostropovich overnight the Frankel half to Zoffany beaten 7-1/2 lengths over 7f?

 

Didnt show a lot but often O'Briens horses have an educational run first up, hopefully improves 

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On 16 May 2017 at 6:04 PM, Nasrullah said:

When we discuss a Sire we discuss far too much the Sireline of the Sire and not enough of the Broodmare sireline or the horses female line.

Cape Blanco's broodmare sireline is Secretariat who was outstanding as a broodmare sire but disappointing as a sire of sires.

I never saw Cape Blanco in the flesh but I didn't like the stallion registrar image. 

It is early days but I pick Nathaniel to be a huge chance and he will give Frankel a run for his money. I pick both to surpass Teofilo.

Nathaniel so far has 6 stakes performers from his 2yo crop. I expect them to do very well as 3yos.

Rip Van Winkle is doing a nice enough job in New Zealand.

Kermedec by Teofilo also a chance in the future.

Galileo's sire sons include Teofilo (65), New Approach (30), Rip Van Winkle (15), Roderic O'Connor (11), Soldier of Fortune (9), Frankel (8), Yazamaan (7), Sixties Icon (7), Cima de Triomphe, Heliostatic, Red Rocks, Discorsi, Cape Blanco, Nathaniel, etc.

Nathaniel filly won the Group One Epsom Oaks yesterday

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