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"white motherf...ers"

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Maori Party MP Hone Harawira

Maori MP Hone Harawira has reacted to an email criticising him for bunking off a work trip to visit Paris, by lashing out at white people.

In an email exchange released to Radio New Zealand, Mr Harawira accused "white motherf...ers" of "puritanical bull****" for expecting him to follow the rules.

Mr Mikaere, who runs a consulting company, emailed Mr Harawira a two sentence message: "Gotta ask the question eh? who's paying for Hilda?"

Mr Harawira wrote back starting his email; "Gee Buddy, do you believe that white man bull**** too do you?

"White motherf...ers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bull****."

Prime Minister John Key has labelled the remarks "deeply offensive" but he says it is up to Maori Party leadership to deal with it.

NZPA

I cant believe this!

We live in politically correct times where we have to say ba ba white sheep and its now catch a tigger by the toe

yet this guy says these reprehensible things and John Key says he will leave it to the Maori party to sort out!

Grow some gonads!

Can you imagine what Chinese leaders would be saying if it was a white politician saying "Chinese motherf...ers" ?

or a white politician saying "Black motherf...ers" ?

This guy is a leader in the Maori community and a role model for many young Maori

I think he should be sacked TODAY end of story!

NOBODY else in NZ could get away with this

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It will be interesting to see if the PC Race Relations Conciliator does or says anothing on this one. My guess is he will say nothing.

The Race Relations Conciliator, as he did in the Mic(h)ael Laws case, will probably send a letter to the children who talked Hone into saying what he did...

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Harawira's comments were offensive and outrageous as Key indicated but not really racist. Calling anyone a MFer is offensive and the MP leadership needs to deal with it. I'm surprised Key kicked for touch and left it to the MP leadership to sort it but didn't actually say he was going to raise it with them and tell them directly he expected it to be dealt with.it is after all a govt support party helping with confidence and supply and the trip was as a member of a govt coalition party.

White motherf...ers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bull****." is not a racist comment. It isover the top in it's tone but the historical context is in many ways correct, that's what the Waitangi Tribunal settlements have been about. However to use such offensive language towards anyone especially someone likely to be sympathetic to many of the MP's aims seems as stupid as it is obnoxious and all just to justify a tourist trip to Paris instead of attending a meeting he was supposed to be at. The very pillaging he referred to, he was guilty of himself by going on a Parliamentary trip and then skipping one of the business meeting he was there for to go sightseeing. even if he paid for the trip to Paris for himself and his wife as claimed, the taxpayer paid for the rest and if it was known he did not intend to attend that particular meeting another MP who would have attended the meeting might have been able to have gone instead of him.

Rather than racist, it is more a pathetic attempt to justify abrogating his responsibilities while on a Parliamentary trip using tenuously linked references to past history.

Doing a great PR job for the Maori Party as Mikaere has stated he won't even be considering voting for them as a result of this. Harawira is the ideal canvasser and doorknocker to send out in marginal electorates................to help the Maori Party's opposition.

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I'm surprised Key kicked for touch and left it to the MP leadership to sort it

I thought John has had a very good week, Philocon...

Fat Rodney has put his foot in it twice - the trip with his dollybird and the comments about John having 'done nothing' - and now Hone has come out with his unique take on events...

Both ACT and the Maori Party will need to begin repairing bridges, lol, and that will leave them with no time to provoke disharmony within the coalition...

Why should John say anything...

You'll notice that Phil Goff will probably come down hard on Rodney but be strangely less harsh on Hone...

They - the Labour Party - have no hope of ever having ACT as a coalition party ... but they don't want to (further) queer their pitch with the Maori Party, do they?

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Harawira's comments were offensive and outrageous as Key indicated but not really racist. Calling anyone a MFer is offensive and the MP leadership needs to deal with it. I'm surprised Key kicked for touch and left it to the MP leadership to sort it but didn't actually say he was going to raise it with them and tell them directly he expected it to be dealt with.it is after all a govt support party helping with confidence and supply and the trip was as a member of a govt coalition party.

White motherf...ers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bull****." is not a racist comment. It isover the top in it's tone but the historical context is in many ways correct, that's what the Waitangi Tribunal settlements have been about. However to use such offensive language towards anyone especially someone likely to be sympathetic to many of the MP's aims seems as stupid as it is obnoxious and all just to justify a tourist trip to Paris instead of attending a meeting he was supposed to be at. The very pillaging he referred to, he was guilty of himself by going on a Parliamentary trip and then skipping one of the business meeting he was there for to go sightseeing. even if he paid for the trip to Paris for himself and his wife as claimed, the taxpayer paid for the rest and if it was known he did not intend to attend that particular meeting another MP who would have attended the meeting might have been able to have gone instead of him.

Rather than racist, it is more a pathetic attempt to justify abrogating his responsibilities while on a Parliamentary trip using tenuously linked references to past history.

Doing a great PR job for the Maori Party as Mikaere has stated he won't even be considering voting for them as a result of this. Harawira is the ideal canvasser and doorknocker to send out in marginal electorates................to help the Maori Party's opposition.

As to what is a Rascist comment in your eyes....you seem to be able to point out comments are "not really rascist" when through my eyes (and I think a lot of NZers) they are.

I could imagine the uproar if Laws called the people who wanted to put the H in Wangavegas Black Motherfu**ers, I doubt there would be many out there that would say "It's not really a Rascist comment"

Please give me an example of what you would call Rascist ? ? ? as you really have got me quite curious

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over the years on racecafe, philocon and maori highchief craig kennett would claim things are not racist because it is being said by maori and not pakeha..

so remember it is only racist if these remarks are spoken by pakeha..

if spoken by maori.. it's justice for hundreds of years of injustice on maori by thwe whiteman

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and if you asked me for a view on what was said.. i'd say.. forget it.. you already know my views..

didn't like his mother.and don't like him.

sorry in advance to all you hard working honest maori out there..

this man is a let down.. to maoridom..he should say sorry and give the white man 50 blankets, 100 muskets and 10 barrels of whiskey...we are all dramatised and it may take centries to forgive :)

eat that hone... you... no good maori mp

oh i love this ... wonder if his mother still spanks him?

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over the years on racecafe, philocon and maori highchief craig kennett would claim things are not racist because it is being said by maori and not pakeha..

so remember it is only racist if these remarks are spoken by pakeha..

if spoken by maori.. it's justice for hundreds of years of injustice on maori by thwe whiteman

Absolute bunkum. You really don't know what you are talking about. Your comments show you don't even understand the issues involved. I have never said what you quote me as saying. If you are so sure I have made such ridiculous claims then it should be pretty easy to produce the written evidence.Posts are easily retrievable form posters profiles. However I have never said that and you will not be able to show any evidence I have. I guess Kennett will be an easier target for you becauise he can't come on here and defend himself against anything you claim he said.

Racism is determined by the nature and meaning of what is said or done, not who said it and whether it is offensive or not. Just because someone says something insulting about someone of a different race doesn't automatically make it racist. But that seems to be your limited understanding of it. No one is arguing that what Harawira said wasn't demeaning, stupid, insulting and totally inappropriate but that doesn't make it racist. If we start calling every insult someone casts against us racist simply because of their ethnicity then when genuinely racist remarks are made we will not take them as seriously as we should and perhaps fail, to recognise actual racist comments and behaviour.

Calling someone a MFer that you also identify as white is not racist any more than calling a Maori a MFer if you are white but both are insulting demeaning and unacceptable and certainly not to be be tolerated from an MP.

Anyone would think I had defended Harawira from the outset when I am in fact agreeing with those who argue that what he did and said is unacceptable and insulting and language unfit for an elected representative.

In the same way that the Human Rights Commissioner has ruled the comments are not a breach of the HR Act they are also not racist but that doesn't mean they don't breach accepted standards and values expected of elected reps in particular as well as everyone else.

It's a bit like the term Uncle Tom often used to describe someone regarded as a sellout to his/her race. It is an insulting term but not racist.

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Absolute bunkum. You really don't know what you are talking about. Your comments show you don't even understand the issues involved. I have never said what you quote me as saying. If you are so sure I have made such ridiculous claims then it should be pretty easy to produce the written evidence.Posts are easily retrievable form posters profiles. However I have never said that and you will not be able to show any evidence I have. I guess Kennett will be an easier target for you becauise he can't come on here and defend himself against anything you claim he said.

Racism is determined by the nature and meaning of what is said or done, not who said it and whether it is offensive or not. Just because someone says something insulting about someone of a different race doesn't automatically make it racist. But that seems to be your limited understanding of it. No one is arguing that what Harawira said wasn't demeaning, stupid, insulting and totally inappropriate but that doesn't make it racist. If we start calling every insult someone casts against us racist simply because of their ethnicity then when genuinely racist remarks are made we will not take them as seriously as we should and perhaps fail, to recognise actual racist comments and behaviour.

Calling someone a MFer that you also identify as white is not racist any more than calling a Maori a MFer if you are white but both are insulting demeaning and unacceptable and certainly not to be be tolerated from an MP.

Anyone would think I had defended Harawira from the outset when I am in fact agreeing with those who argue that what he did and said is unacceptable and insulting and language unfit for an elected representative.

In the same way that the Human Rights Commissioner has ruled the comments are not a breach of the HR Act they are also not racist but that doesn't mean they don't breach accepted standards and values expected of elected reps in particular as well as everyone else.

It's a bit like the term Uncle Tom often used to describe someone regarded as a sellout to his/her race. It is an insulting term but not racist.

You are so busy splitting hairs you have missed the point altogether

If I am white and you black and I call you a bastard then no that is not racist

BUT if I called you a black bastard then that is clearly racist

White people are dragged over the coals for saying anything even slightly against another race as the people on the receiving end are VERY quick to scream racism

Here we have a Maori calling white people "white motherfucxxxx" and your trying to say that is not racist :confused:

Wake up to yourself

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You are so busy splitting hairs you have missed the point altogether

If I am white and you black and I call you a bastard then no that is not racist

BUT if I called you a black bastard then that is clearly racist

White people are dragged over the coals for saying anything even slightly against another race as the people on the receiving end are VERY quick to scream racism

Here we have a Maori calling white people "white motherfucxxxx" and your trying to say that is not racist :confused:

Wake up to yourself

I'm not splitting hairs or trying to justify what Harawira said. You and Teletubby are not even reading what he wrote and you are accusing me of saying things I never said. That doesn't worry me as teletubby quite often misquotes or misreads/misunderstands what I write and I am almost used to it.

Actually I have called individual Maori bastards more than once and it has not been racist or seen to be even by the recipient of the insult as I would have called them that if they were Pakeha too.

Harawira referred to the white MFers who had exploited Maori not all white people. Those Pakeha who worked with Maori or lived with and fought for or with them etc are not included in the phrase but that makes the language no more acceptable than if they were. I didn't consider myself one of the Pakeha he was calling MFers but then who know which ones he was referring to. However I still found his attitude, and language demeaning and grossly offensive as well as his attitude to his role on a Parliamentary delegation where he was representing you and me on an impromptu tour of Paris instead of a meeting at the EU. I also found his attitude to someone the govt felt warranted appointment to an important tribunal offensive and demeaning as well. But while it is offensive, that does not automatically make it racist. The remark would have been offensive and racist if he had referred to all white people as such because they are white. However I have stated again and again that it is just as offensive and unacceptable whether racist or not. Being racist and paternalistic would be to excuse such behaviour and language on the basis of past injustices & practices and no one that I know of is doing that apart from Teletubby claiming that I am, which is patent nonense.

While I said the difference is academic or technical in some ways, it is still important as offensive comments with offensive language are or should be offensive to all and not tolerated as in this case.

Racist ones are equally offensive and intolerable but also show a deeper problem and that is racist attitudes in the community that need to be addressed before they take hold. If we don't make the distinction then we run the risk of lumping everything as just offensive and not acting on racist attitudes when they do appear.

You say "White people are dragged over the coals for saying anything even slightly against another race as the people on the receiving end are VERY quick to scream racism." Where is the evidence for that? But then isn't that exactly what you are doing here? There is no tolerance here for any racist comments but equally, insulting and offensive ones are or should not be tolerated either.

Because someone claims something is racist doesn't automatically mean it is. There are people on this forum who have claimed the Maori seats, Te Puni Kokiri, Waitangi Tribunal and settlments claims are racist amongst other things. That doesn't mean they are at all.What that shows is that some people don't really understand what racism and discrimination really is.

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Curious that Hone was so keen to visit The Louvre, surely the bastion of relics of 'white man's culture'...

Methinks he is just posturing - I think he'll quit politics quite soon (or even be thrown out by his party).

And his CV will look a lot better to 'his people' if he is seen to have stuck a finger up at the whiteys...

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no misquotes philocon,

JUST a difference in opinion on this matter.. thats all it takes to get you going..

hone and his mother have always been a thorn in pakaha's side. if i disagreeed which i am entitled to do.. you and your mate craig would automaticlly abuse myself and others and acuse us of being racist and not having any idea or understanding of maori culture..

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Oh PLEASE PLEASE -

Get Winston back ... so we can start to run the country in a decent respectable and honest manner ;)

without everyone being ripped off and the tax payer paying for the ones in there now's pleasure trips :y:

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I think that you have to give some of the maoris some lattitude as it was only 240 years a go they were a stone age race of people sitting round covered in bird grease to keep the insects off and it will take still a few more years of outcrossing in the breeding to smooth things out, remember the song in the year 2525.

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Good one Dogday. They haven't yet realised with every generation they can only get whiter. They're only 1/16 and 1/32 now so why are they so keen to trash their European roots.

John Harawira has long been a major stirrer so why should anyone expect any thing better from him.

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I'm not splitting hairs or trying to justify what Harawira said. You and Teletubby are not even reading what he wrote and you are accusing me of saying things I never said. That doesn't worry me as teletubby quite often misquotes or misreads/misunderstands what I write and I am almost used to it.

Actually I have called individual Maori bastards more than once and it has not been racist or seen to be even by the recipient of the insult as I would have called them that if they were Pakeha too.

Harawira referred to the white MFers who had exploited Maori not all white people. Those Pakeha who worked with Maori or lived with and fought for or with them etc are not included in the phrase but that makes the language no more acceptable than if they were. I didn't consider myself one of the Pakeha he was calling MFers but then who know which ones he was referring to. However I still found his attitude, and language demeaning and grossly offensive as well as his attitude to his role on a Parliamentary delegation where he was representing you and me on an impromptu tour of Paris instead of a meeting at the EU. I also found his attitude to someone the govt felt warranted appointment to an important tribunal offensive and demeaning as well. But while it is offensive, that does not automatically make it racist. The remark would have been offensive and racist if he had referred to all white people as such because they are white. However I have stated again and again that it is just as offensive and unacceptable whether racist or not. Being racist and paternalistic would be to excuse such behaviour and language on the basis of past injustices & practices and no one that I know of is doing that apart from Teletubby claiming that I am, which is patent nonense.

While I said the difference is academic or technical in some ways, it is still important as offensive comments with offensive language are or should be offensive to all and not tolerated as in this case.

Racist ones are equally offensive and intolerable but also show a deeper problem and that is racist attitudes in the community that need to be addressed before they take hold. If we don't make the distinction then we run the risk of lumping everything as just offensive and not acting on racist attitudes when they do appear.

You say "White people are dragged over the coals for saying anything even slightly against another race as the people on the receiving end are VERY quick to scream racism." Where is the evidence for that? But then isn't that exactly what you are doing here? There is no tolerance here for any racist comments but equally, insulting and offensive ones are or should not be tolerated either.

Because someone claims something is racist doesn't automatically mean it is. There are people on this forum who have claimed the Maori seats, Te Puni Kokiri, Waitangi Tribunal and settlments claims are racist amongst other things. That doesn't mean they are at all.What that shows is that some people don't really understand what racism and discrimination really is.

Are you sure your not Jos De Bries in disguise?

Only you 2 could come up with such waffly, tree hugging, liberal white guilt, champagne socialist, nonsense in reply to what is clearly a racist remark by the ignorant fool Harawira.

Does anyone think that if a 'non maori' made a remark like Harawira has the race relations conciliator wouldn't be screaming blue murder?

Instead according to De Bries he is only exercising his right to free speech.

Clearly an example of one rule for some and another rule for another.

Surely in this time of government cost cutting they need to look at this whole useless race relations concilliator role.

They have shown they are actually part of the problem not the solution.

Get rid of the whole useless department and save the taxpayers money.

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Seems that death and taxes aren't the only two sureties in life anymore...

Nope, there's now two more...

If Manchester United lose, as they did this a.m., Sir Alex Fergusson will blame the ref...

And if any Maori MP in New Zealand cops any bad press, the opportunity will be taken to blame it all on us whiteys in general and on one whitey in particular:

Maori Party co-vice president and retired judge Heta Hingston defended Harawira yesterday, and argued his day trip to Paris was just "bad timing".

Hingston conceded Harawira's email comments, in which he rallied against "white motherf*****s", were "unpleasant," but said the MP was provoked by reference to his wife Hilda.

"There is a Maori way of seeing things and a Pakeha way," said Hingston, who played down the prospect of serious disciplinary action by the party.

"When Wanganui sort out their mayor we'll sort out Hone."

Sheesh...

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well hone...were waiting :rolleyes:

say your sorry for calling me a white ################

just like some on race cafe that claim what they would say to geoff small face to face...

i've got a few choice words i'd like to say to hone face to face..

and yeah he could well take a swing..but then again so may i..

at least.. he knows i won't eat him :)

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Seems that death and taxes aren't the only two sureties in life anymore...

Nope, there's now two more...

If Manchester United lose, as they did this a.m., Sir Alex Fergusson will blame the ref...

And if any Maori MP in New Zealand cops any bad press, the opportunity will be taken to blame it all on us whiteys in general and on one whitey in particular:

Maori Party co-vice president and retired judge Heta Hingston defended Harawira yesterday, and argued his day trip to Paris was just "bad timing".

Hingston conceded Harawira's email comments, in which he rallied against "white motherf*****s", were "unpleasant," but said the MP was provoked by reference to his wife Hilda.

"There is a Maori way of seeing things and a Pakeha way," said Hingston, who played down the prospect of serious disciplinary action by the party.

"When Wanganui sort out their mayor we'll sort out Hone."

Sheesh...

Elements on both sides of the argument are doing this. One of the posts on another thread defending what laws said cited Harawira and used the same defence - "...yes but what about him..." It's the sort of thing preschool and school kids do to deflect blame but some adults do as well.

Fact is Harawira's behaviour can no more be justified by comparing it to Laws or anyone else than Law's comments can by comparing it to Harawira's or anyone else. Such defensiveness has nothing to do with race but mates & supporters protecting & defending each other but being reluctant to actually act against them.

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Seems that death and taxes aren't the only two sureties in life anymore...

Nope, there's now two more...

If Manchester United lose, as they did this a.m., Sir Alex Fergusson will blame the ref...

And if any Maori MP in New Zealand cops any bad press, the opportunity will be taken to blame it all on us whiteys in general and on one whitey in particular:

Maori Party co-vice president and retired judge Heta Hingston defended Harawira yesterday, and argued his day trip to Paris was just "bad timing".

Hingston conceded Harawira's email comments, in which he rallied against "white motherf*****s", were "unpleasant," but said the MP was provoked by reference to his wife Hilda.

"There is a Maori way of seeing things and a Pakeha way," said Hingston, who played down the prospect of serious disciplinary action by the party.

"When Wanganui sort out their mayor we'll sort out Hone."

Sheesh...

How apt that a previously unheard of co vice-president should raise Michael Law's name, when speaking of Hone Harawira.

These two are politicians with a very strong following among those of their own ethnicity. If they and their ilk continue with their divisive rhetoric, it is only a matter of time before NZ becomes another Bosnia.

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