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Japanese Industry

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A very good documentary and very well done by Arrowfield Stud, they have been pioneers in the past with the likes of introducing mares in foal to Sunday Silence and enabling Danehill to shuttle.

They now have 3 Japanese horses on their stallion roster and have recently sent some of the stud's top mares to be served by Deep Impact

 

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Some amazing stats were given ---I "smiled" at the figures around betting on the Prix d'larc de Triomphe .( More money bet in Japan than in France ). I knew the Chinese are big punters but I didn't realise the Japanese were so big.

Overall I admire how they have just done their own thing in breeding, training and race administration ( esp integrity aspects) and as a result are way ahead of most other jurisdictions in the racing world.

BruceL --it will be interesting to see how those stallions at Arrowfield go. I'm sure they will a lot of initial support but looking at their race records they didn't really come into their own until they were late 3 or 4 year olds. The Australians owners are not really known for their patience. Having said that I'd give "my eye teeth" for a Deep Impact yearling, given what I saw on the doco.

 

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I've wondered for a while;

Q1; Aussies import all those European stayers for the Cups etc. Jap stayers obviously very good - why does nobody buy them?

Q2; Why no Japanese bred stallions in NZ? In both cases is it the cost?

 

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Mattski

I think they had Gai Waterhouse and a few others up at the Japanese yearling sales last year or the year before. I suspect buying good, tried Japanese staying type might be an expensive exercise

There has been a couple of Japanese bred stallions ( that I can think of) , both by Sunday Silence --Summer Suspicion ( stood near Christchurch ) and Zenno Rob Roy. There is also Roc de Cambes --not bred in Japan but did all his racing there. I think Rich Hill Stud has had connections with the Japanese industry.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Breeder said:

Mattski

I think they had Gai Waterhouse and a few others up at the Japanese yearling sales last year or the year before. I suspect buying good, tried Japanese staying type might be an expensive exercise

There has been a couple of Japanese bred stallions ( that I can think of) , both by Sunday Silence --Summer Suspicion ( stood near Christchurch ) and Zenno Rob Roy. There is also Roc de Cambes --not bred in Japan but did all his racing there. I think Rich Hill Stud has had connections with the Japanese industry.

 

 

Zenno Rob Roy was quite effective - especially in Asia / Singapore I think 

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1 hour ago, Dopey said:

Zenno Rob Roy was quite effective - especially in Asia / Singapore I think 

Yeah the ones that could be controlled, his progeny were some of the worst that have been seen in NZ, it is a common trend in the Sunday Silence line but the ZRR's were particularly tough and borderline dangerous 

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On 3/29/2017 at 9:39 AM, Breeder said:

I knew the Chinese are big punters but I didn't realise the Japanese were so big.

Japan does everything well and to the highest level of quality, they can. So it is no surprise they have good breeding and set up. The JRA is not some amateur operation.

Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan are very interesting racing venues. 

Singapore and Japanese are very conservative countries and have very little in the way of gambling vice. Neither have casinos (wouldn't really count Singapore's as locals are discouraged) Both are run tightly and are well monied.

Hong Kong is a bit different. Casinos are across the water in Macau but the Chinese love a night out of their little apartment at the races to chase their fortune.

Actually racing in all 3 is a release from the stress of their society I believe.

2 hours ago, Breeder said:

I suspect buying good, tried Japanese staying type might be an expensive exercise

True, but the exchange rate in the last 2 or 3 years would make it an ideal time to buy in Japan. Never cheaper in this regard.

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Its'an interesting point why we haven't imported more Japanese stallions - apparently they are cost competitive; White Robe didn't pay a lot for Yamanin Vital although his quarantine was expensive.

I gather a prominent NZ farm were looking at a Group 3 winner and Group 2 placed son of King Kamehameha last year. I don't know what became of the deal.

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Like anything thoroughbred, there are the good choices and the not so good choices. Although Sunday Silence and Deep Impact have been utter revelations, it's quite hard to know what the right type is because Japan runs the show differently so therefore on the whole their horses may not suit our space. Their horses tend to be later developing and definitely stayers although Lord Kanaloa could only be classed as one of the Worlds best sprinters in his day. 

Messara hasn't just stumbled into the Japanese space as he stood Fujiu Keseiki, one of the "Sunday Silence breed. The Japanese film is definitely an advertorial for Arrowfield.

Its as hard to find a good stallion from that line as it is finding a good son of Sir Tristram, Zabeel, or Galileo. 

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 The Japan breeding industry accelerated in the 80's as a result of Zenya Yoshida having the same love affair with Northern Dancer as Robert Sangster and Vincent O. That was the platform that has elevated the Japanese industry to the level it is, comparable to the best in the world. The comment on stayers is relevant, but I would suggest that Maurice would be comparable to Solow or any previous European miler. The Japanese industry lacked confidence in the 90's, has gained some in the early part of 2000, but they will develop into the "elite" level of performance and breeding within the next decade. Deep Impact is an outstanding stallion, the eastern version of Galileo or Sadlers Wells and Arrowfield are the avenue of access to that depth of blood, we should be thankful that Arrowfield had the foresight to generate that liaison.

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On 5/7/2017 at 10:22 PM, John Clydesdale said:

 The Japan breeding industry accelerated in the 80's as a result of Zenya Yoshida having the same love affair with Northern Dancer as Robert Sangster and Vincent O. That was the platform that has elevated the Japanese industry to the level it is, comparable to the best in the world. The comment on stayers is relevant, but I would suggest that Maurice would be comparable to Solow or any previous European miler. The Japanese industry lacked confidence in the 90's, has gained some in the early part of 2000, but they will develop into the "elite" level of performance and breeding within the next decade. Deep Impact is an outstanding stallion, the eastern version of Galileo or Sadlers Wells and Arrowfield are the avenue of access to that depth of blood, we should be thankful that Arrowfield had the foresight to generate that liaison.

Someone needs to bring a deep impact stallion to Nz eventually 

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The Japanese horses clearly are top class going by their race times.

Admire Rakti won the Caulfield Cup with 58kg ( 2nd and 3rd had 53kg) and was no where near the best stayers from Japan.In fact he had never won or placed in the first three home at Group One level in Japan.

On of their current best stayers is recent Japan Cup winner Kitasan Black. At his last start he stepped up to a Group One over 3200m, running it in a time of 3.12.5.

The fastest time in Melbourne Cup history is 3.16.3.

So the Japanese could easily win by a margin. Their 3yo Derby horses are also top class. 

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Nasrullah

I think their training methods must also contribute to their success. For example, I think I caught it correctly on the Arrowfield video when the Japanese trainer said they don't put their horses out for spells once they go into training. So they obviously do things quite differently.

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I speak from experience that is somewhat dated. But like all advancing horse people, the Japenese youngsters travelled and worked with the best. The top guys have all trained in Europe at Newmarket or Chantilly and they learn and understand the challenges of racing there. They then convert that experience into the quality of horse they have and train them well.

Imagine 5000 horses, yes 5000, at one training centre with 27 tracks, and each saddle has a gps unit that feeds information to a central point. That was 20 years ago. now they can read breathing, heart and lung expulsion rates.....where do we sit in the technology area?....

Look at the times they run, as mentioned earlier, then you can appreciate fully the feats of Horlicks and Aerovilocity, they are milestones.

The Japanese culture handcuffs them from taking on the world, self confidence....

Zenya Yoshida would now be very proud of the local industry in Japan, and thanks to the JRA and great stake money they will continue to improve their horses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/3/2017 at 3:39 PM, Berri said:

Like anything thoroughbred, there are the good choices and the not so good choices. Although Sunday Silence and Deep Impact have been utter revelations, it's quite hard to know what the right type is because Japan runs the show differently so therefore on the whole their horses may not suit our space. Their horses tend to be later developing and definitely stayers although Lord Kanaloa could only be classed as one of the Worlds best sprinters in his day. 

Messara hasn't just stumbled into the Japanese space as he stood Fujiu Keseiki, one of the "Sunday Silence breed. The Japanese film is definitely an advertorial for Arrowfield.

Its as hard to find a good stallion from that line as it is finding a good son of Sir Tristram, Zabeel, or Galileo. 

A GREAT advertorial for Arrowfield indeed Berri. And why not. Arrowfield's stallions and breeding analysis historically outstanding. 

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Fuji Kiseki went to Arrowfield about 20 years ago!!!

The Japanese have raised their standards by a large amount since then.

When the best Japanese travel to the world biggest events they tend to really dominate.

Japan have been buying up the best mares in the world especially in the last 15 years.

In Japan run they fastest times especially at 2000 to 3200m.

Japanese black type has to be the highest standard in the world.

Why? Only 1.4% of all Japanese races having black-type status - remarkably low in comparison with Great Britain (4.6%), Ireland (10.9%) and Australia (3.1%).

Deep Impact's 10% stakes winners to starters would be 22% if they had the same number of stakes race percentage as Australia.

The Japanese don't need to travel as they have huge prizemoney at home.

               
               
               
               
               
             

 

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