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Racing Act Admendment Underway

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12 minutes ago, Midget said:

Is anyone else worried about this insidious drift ( in the language being used by the NZRB ) from racing to sports ?

It appears the NZRB has zero interest in helping the domestic racing industry produce a quality product but rather they're just focused on alternate sports as options to bet on.

This appears to be a secret agenda to shift the TAB from a racing focus to any and every sport, how can that not be detrimental to racing ? And why is the industry not up in arms about it ? Once this is done you won't be able to turn back the clock because the racing industry is being emasculated, slowly weakened, eventually it'll be dismantled, we'll have no power but the big time sports like rugby and basketball will have hijacked the TAB, while we did nothing, and they'll be telling us what to do and when.

Are our leaders that stupid, or that incompetent, that they can't see the potential dangers here ?

 

Your'e 100% right!

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11 hours ago, Midget said:

I've been telling you this sports v. racing distribution is an issue for months but you don't listen or comprehend.

When they set up the new 1000 option F/O platform ( or whatever number it is ) the punters will migrate from tote ( that's racing ) to F/O sports and you'll never see them again.

History proves this happens.

Racing is funding the development of a platform that'll steal its customers away....and then you're a stroke of the Labour/Greens pen away from losing every cent earnt by sports betting because that'll go directly to them rather than to racing.

You're having your pants pulled down guys, and you're getting it right up the chutney, but you're all too slow to see it, or too gullible.

This is a classic case of a bunch of turkeys voting for an early Christmas.

For once in your lives digest what I'm saying because this is potentially catastrophic for racing.

 

Sports contributed as much to the development of the F/O platform if not more particularly as it has been the growth betting product in recent years.  So there isn't any mileage in pushing the line that Racing developed the platform.  The stuff up is that they pushed the racing gambling dollars towards fixed odds and subsequently lower margins.

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39 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Sports contributed as much to the development of the F/O platform if not more particularly as it has been the growth betting product in recent years.  So there isn't any mileage in pushing the line that Racing developed the platform.  The stuff up is that they pushed the racing gambling dollars towards fixed odds and subsequently lower margins.

Don't be silly.

It's called The Racing Act for a reason, go read the functions of the board, you'll understand.

The drift into sport is understandable, but they've contributed nothing to the TAB infrastructure and development and they're an easy option for gambling products, they're the low hanging fruit if you like.

They also have huge income streams from TV rights, they have salaried players, alternate revenue sources etc...racing has none of those.

Racing is not a benevolent society, the hard working people who put on the show have enshrined rights under The Racing Act and thus is an abrogation of the rights of the racing participants, and arguably dereliction of duty by those in charge and responsible for implementing the Act.

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5 minutes ago, Midget said:

Don't be silly.

It's called The Racing Act for a reason, go read the functions of the board, you'll understand.

The drift into sport is understandable, but they've contributed nothing to the TAB infrastructure and development and they're an easy option for gambling products, they're the low hanging fruit if you like.

They also have huge income streams from TV rights, they have salaried players, alternate revenue sources etc...racing has none of those.

Racing is not a benevolent society, the hard working people who put on the show have enshrined rights under The Racing Act and thus is an abrogation of the rights of the racing participants, and arguably dereliction of duty by those in charge and responsible for implementing the Act.

You are starting to sound like Union Leader with communist tendencies.  The New Zealand Racing Act is an anachronism of a bygone era when protectionism and government legislated monopolies were the fashion.

The New Zealand taxpayer initially funded the TAB and some would argue still largely does.

Sports may have huge incomes from other sources and good on them.  Racing could have to and some clubs do have alternative sources of revenue.  But neither has a given right to subsidisation.

 

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10 hours ago, Leggy said:

They've given racing a lot. Don't think they've taken anything away.

leggy not sure on that i remember years ago i  noticed in the pub turnover at the tab bar dropped by at least 20 per cent when pokies were put in    the small punters rather play the pokies a quick buzz

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1 hour ago, Midget said:

Is anyone else worried about this insidious drift ( in the language being used by the NZRB ) from racing to sports ?

 

There may have been a drift but it is dramatically slowed this season almost to a standstill with sports turnover up only 1% ytd.

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

There may have been a drift but it is dramatically slowed this season almost to a standstill with sports turnover up only 1% ytd.

I was referring to the language they're using in their communiques, it's a "conditioning" process, they're grooming the industry to prepare to assign their rights and the dedication of industry resources to the sports industry as distinct from the racing industry.

Read between the lines, the word "sports" now appears as often as the word "racing".

Beware, these people have a sinister agenda, they only care about turnover and growth because it looks good in the annual report ( and on their CV ), hence the inclusion of pokies in turnover figures now. It's mischievous and orchestrated chicanery. 

My concern is that they don't appear to give a flying fuck about the racing industry..

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How much of sports betting is on international events (NBA, NRL, AFL, EPL).

I don't know anyone who bets on domestic football but i sure know alot of money goes on the Euro/English comps.

Why do domestic sports bodies that contribute nothing to overseas competitions get a cut? Surely if anyone was owed something it would be SKY TV who pays for most NZ punters to watch and bet on these events.

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6 hours ago, gary1 said:

leggy not sure on that i remember years ago i  noticed in the pub turnover at the tab bar dropped by at least 20 per cent when pokies were put in    the small punters rather play the pokies a quick buzz

I agree with you Gary, I think it's had a massive impact in taking punters away from betting on horses.

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Complete waste of time and money by people who have absolutely no understanding of the industry. I have it on good authority that the number of companies who will pay for the right to offer NZ racing is TWO, Tatts and Tabcorp. So you can forget about the $15 million that has been bandied about, they won't net 7 figures from overseas companies they will just STOP OFFERING NEW ZEALAND RACING. Obviously. As for forcing overseas companies to pay a "tax" when Kiwi punters bet, it's complete fantasy. Who the FUCK (Scooby please do not censor) is going to police that and HOW? It is 2017 FFS, not the 13th century. Nathan Guy is complete fuckwit (again Scooby pls) and when you hear him use words like "working groups" and "leakage" you know he is nothing more than a puppet for Hughes and Allen. Hughes and Allen are VERY SMART but only in terms of doing everything to protect their jobs and the ridiculous salaries that come with them. This is possibly the dumbest piece of legislation that has ever been proposed, and Nathan Guy will go down in history as the dumbest and most gullible racing minister of all time. The legislation DOES need some changes as it is 20 years old but the "information tax" on overseas companies betting on NZ sports is obviously completely unviable, otherwise don't you think the US government would have passed similiar legislation years ago? And while Midget is right when he says they don't care if NZ racing survives and are more worried about sports betting, don't ever forget that this whole shambles is the fault of the clowns on the NZRB who have hired bankers and lawyers and PR consultants and postmen instead of people who know the betting industry. It's all about jobs for the boys but slowly but surely the gravy train is slowing down. This legislation will not solve ANY of the problems the racing industry is suffering. All it is is something Hughes and Allen can point to to temporarily silence the critics so they can keep milking the cow until the money runs out and they move on to their next destination. They are complete imposters - being paid for jobs which neither can do - but the collective NZ racing industry only has itself to blame because they are ones who appointed the board who hired them.

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10 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Complete waste of time and money by people who have absolutely no understanding of the industry. I have it on good authority that the number of companies who will pay for the right to offer NZ racing is TWO, Tatts and Tabcorp. So you can forget about the $15 million that has been bandied about, they won't net 7 figures from overseas companies they will just STOP OFFERING NEW ZEALAND RACING. Obviously. As for forcing overseas companies to pay a "tax" when Kiwi punters bet, it's complete fantasy. Who the FUCK (Scooby please do not censor) is going to police that and HOW? It is 2017 FFS, not the 13th century. Nathan Guy is complete fuckwit (again Scooby pls) and when you hear him use words like "working groups" and "leakage" you know he is nothing more than a puppet for Hughes and Allen. Hughes and Allen are VERY SMART but only in terms of doing everything to protect their jobs and the ridiculous salaries that come with them. This is possibly the dumbest piece of legislation that has ever been proposed, and Nathan Guy will go down in history as the dumbest and most gullible racing minister of all time. The legislation DOES need some changes as it is 20 years old but the "information tax" on overseas companies betting on NZ sports is obviously completely unviable, otherwise don't you think the US government would have passed similiar legislation? And while Midget is right when he says they don't care if NZ racing survives and are more worried about sports betting, don't ever forget that this whole shambles is the fault of the clowns on the NZRB who have hired bankers and lawyers and PR consultants and postmen instead of people who know the betting industry. It's all about jobs for the boys but slowly but surely the gravy train is slowing down. This legislation will not solve ANY of the problems the racing industry is suffering. All it is is something Hughes and Allen can point to to temporarily silence the critics so they can keep milking the cow until the money runs out and they move on to their next destination. They are complete imposters - being paid for jobs which neither can do - but the collective NZ racing industry only has itself to blame because they are ones who appointed the board who hired them.

not that i disagree with you phanty but do overseas compnies pay aust taxes

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Agree Phantom - I stand to be corrected but I think you will find the NZRB already have reciprocal agreements in place with all Aust TABs - so they are only legislating to try and capture the corporate bookmakers share of commissions. They also think they will capture NZ punters who are smart and bet offshore - either by enticing these punters onto NZ TAB or by a tax on the bookmakers they play with. Irony is they (NZ TAB) aggressively canvass offshore punters to bet with them but when boot is on other foot they want to treat us kiwis like North Koreans!! 

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50 minutes ago, toolittletoolate said:

Agree Phantom - I stand to be corrected but I think you will find the NZRB already have reciprocal agreements in place with all Aust TABs - so they are only legislating to try and capture the corporate bookmakers share of commissions. They also think they will capture NZ punters who are smart and bet offshore - either by enticing these punters onto NZ TAB or by a tax on the bookmakers they play with. Irony is they (NZ TAB) aggressively canvass offshore punters to bet with them but when boot is on other foot they want to treat us kiwis like North Koreans!! 

The whole idea smacks of double standards, I fail to see how me having a bet on the NFL with an offshore bookmaker has anything to do with them or why they should get anything from it, do they pay a fee if someone from another country has a bet with them? Seems like they are trying to have their cake an eat it to. 

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8 minutes ago, tonkatime said:

The whole idea smacks of double standards, I fail to see how me having a bet on the NFL with an offshore bookmaker has anything to do with them or why they should get anything from it, do they pay a fee if someone from another country has a bet with them? Seems like they are trying to have their cake an eat it to. 

Not to mention they want access to all your personal details you hold with offshore accounts including turnover and credit card/account transactions! It sort of changes the whole landscape of the country we think we live in.

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4 hours ago, gary1 said:

not that i disagree with you phanty but do overseas compnies pay aust taxes

Not that I am aware of. And if they did you would think that the Americans would have their hands out faster than you could say Yankee Doodle Dandy for a slice of the BILLIONS  that is bet on American sport all over the world. After all they are the one country who would actually have a chance of enforcing such legislation. 

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10 hours ago, Phantom said:

Complete waste of time and money by people who have absolutely no understanding of the industry. I have it on good authority that the number of companies who will pay for the right to offer NZ racing is TWO, Tatts and Tabcorp. So you can forget about the $15 million that has been bandied about, they won't net 7 figures from overseas companies they will just STOP OFFERING NEW ZEALAND RACING. Obviously. As for forcing overseas companies to pay a "tax" when Kiwi punters bet, it's complete fantasy. Who the FUCK (Scooby please do not censor) is going to police that and HOW? It is 2017 FFS, not the 13th century. Nathan Guy is complete fuckwit (again Scooby pls) and when you hear him use words like "working groups" and "leakage" you know he is nothing more than a puppet for Hughes and Allen. Hughes and Allen are VERY SMART but only in terms of doing everything to protect their jobs and the ridiculous salaries that come with them. This is possibly the dumbest piece of legislation that has ever been proposed, and Nathan Guy will go down in history as the dumbest and most gullible racing minister of all time. The legislation DOES need some changes as it is 20 years old but the "information tax" on overseas companies betting on NZ sports is obviously completely unviable, otherwise don't you think the US government would have passed similiar legislation years ago? And while Midget is right when he says they don't care if NZ racing survives and are more worried about sports betting, don't ever forget that this whole shambles is the fault of the clowns on the NZRB who have hired bankers and lawyers and PR consultants and postmen instead of people who know the betting industry. It's all about jobs for the boys but slowly but surely the gravy train is slowing down. This legislation will not solve ANY of the problems the racing industry is suffering. All it is is something Hughes and Allen can point to to temporarily silence the critics so they can keep milking the cow until the money runs out and they move on to their next destination. They are complete imposters - being paid for jobs which neither can do - but the collective NZ racing industry only has itself to blame because they are ones who appointed the board who hired them.

It's a complete debacle Phantom. It's come not just from the total lack of wagering expertise among the head honchos at the RB. Have a look at the make up of the Working Group membership which dreamed up this fiasco. Not a sign of any knowledge or expertise in the global betting industry, and they didn't even bother to consult with anyone who did have.  Fair enough to get some racefields legislation in place, but this idea of charging overseas companies for use of sports information and charging overseas companies a tax when kiwis bet is complete pie in the sky stuff. They should all give themselves an uppercut for costing the industry so much time and money on a pipe-dream.

Who do they think is going to pay for the hopeless task of trying to enforce these things? The NZ taxpayer? In an election year? As you point out, no other country has been able to and even the US which has the most to gain hasn't wasted the time and money to attempt it. What a f&^king joke.

And in the meantime they have some of the hardworking people at the coal face of the industry hanging out expecting that the promised millions will actually materialise shortly. That's just plain criminal.

It's hard to believe that the National government would be stupid enough to progress this any further. If they do, then all I can say is God help New Zealand.

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Leggy, I need to understand your position on something, so please answer me this question, and keep the answer brief, as in one sentence, thirty words max. No waffle, no bullshit, KISS ok ?

Sky TV plays an NBA game, LA Lakers v. Chicago Bulls.

The NZ TAB takes $5000 in bets on the game and nets $500 profit.

Who gets that profit after opex, let's say it's $250 given that opex is about 50%, does the racing industry get it or should it go to NZ basketball ?

Should our TAB pay Sky TV a % for broadcasting the game ?

Should our TAB pay the USA basketball federation ( or whatever they're called ) a % or should the Lakers & Bulls franchises get a % ?

Keep it simple please, just reply by listing each entity, yes or no to a fee, an indication of how much of the profits they should get, and briefly why they should or shouldn't get a slice of the action.

 

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Guest 2Admin2
58 minutes ago, Midget said:

Leggy, I need to understand your position on something, so please answer me this question, and keep the answer brief, as in one sentence, thirty words max. No waffle, no bullshit, KISS ok ?

Sky TV plays an NBA game, LA Lakers v. Chicago Bulls.

The NZ TAB takes $5000 in bets on the game and nets $500 profit.

Who gets that profit after opex, let's say it's $250 given that opex is about 50%, does the racing industry get it or should it go to NZ basketball ?

Should our TAB pay Sky TV a % for broadcasting the game ?

Should our TAB pay the USA basketball federation ( or whatever they're called ) a % or should the Lakers & Bulls franchises get a % ?

Keep it simple please, just reply by listing each entity, yes or no to a fee, an indication of how much of the profits they should get, and briefly why they should or shouldn't get a slice of the action.

 

30 words only?!  That's a bit rich considering your FOUR questions total over 150!

If I was you I'd drop the totally unfounded sense of entitlement that you think Racing has which seems to magnify when you put your thoroughbred hat on.

The fact is racing has been and still is subsidised by sports betting.  There isn't a case to support that.

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24 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

30 words only?!  That's a bit rich considering your FOUR questions total over 150!

If I was you I'd drop the totally unfounded sense of entitlement that you think Racing has which seems to magnify when you put your thoroughbred hat on.

The fact is racing has been and still is subsidised by sports betting.  There isn't a case to support that.

It's called legislation Admin, you need to understand what the current law is, not what you think it is or should be.

If you want to change the law you petition government, if you don't you comply with it.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

30 words only?!  That's a bit rich considering your FOUR questions total over 150!

If I was you I'd drop the totally unfounded sense of entitlement that you think Racing has which seems to magnify when you put your thoroughbred hat on.

The fact is racing has been and still is subsidised by sports betting.  There isn't a case to support that.

Racing owns the profits from sports betting the issue is how to maximise those profits.

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Guest 2Admin2
11 minutes ago, toolittletoolate said:

Racing owns the profits from sports betting the issue is how to maximise those profits.

Arguably it has no moral right to those profits.  That right can be changed politically with the stroke of a pen.

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1 hour ago, Midget said:

Leggy, I need to understand your position on something, so please answer me this question, and keep the answer brief, as in one sentence, thirty words max. No waffle, no bullshit, KISS ok ?

Sky TV plays an NBA game, LA Lakers v. Chicago Bulls.

The NZ TAB takes $5000 in bets on the game and nets $500 profit.

Who gets that profit after opex, let's say it's $250 given that opex is about 50%, does the racing industry get it or should it go to NZ basketball ?

Should our TAB pay Sky TV a % for broadcasting the game ?

Should our TAB pay the USA basketball federation ( or whatever they're called ) a % or should the Lakers & Bulls franchises get a % ?

Keep it simple please, just reply by listing each entity, yes or no to a fee, an indication of how much of the profits they should get, and briefly why they should or shouldn't get a slice of the action.

 

an analogy - i drive my modest car ( 2017 Lexus ) into the BP service station and fill it with BP petrol.

BP make a profit on the petrol sold - now should BP pay Lexus a % for the privilege of having filled my modest car?

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1 hour ago, Midget said:

Who gets that profit after opex, let's say it's $250 given that opex is about 50%, does the racing industry get it or should it go to NZ basketball

Should the NZ racing industry get it? If that's what you mean, NO.

Should NZ Basketball get it? NO.

1 hour ago, Midget said:

Should our TAB pay Sky TV a % for broadcasting the game ?

Not sure that's relevant, but no, not unless the TAB are broadcasting in some kind of commercial arrangement with SKY or are in partnership with SKY to secure the event in some form.

1 hour ago, Midget said:

Should our TAB pay the USA basketball federation ( or whatever they're called ) a % or should the Lakers & Bulls franchises get a % ?

The NBA. Yes.

1 hour ago, Midget said:

an indication of how much of the profits they should get, and briefly why they should or shouldn't get a slice of the action

I'd say a starting point of about 15-20% of gross betting profit, so $75-$100.

The rest should go to the government and NZ taxpayer. Though the government may decide to re-distribute some or all of that in some way across NZ sports including racing.

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