RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
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geoff small

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15 hours ago, what a post said:

Heres another one for you mr vince.  Remember a horse called Another creation.  Did you not have a share in that?  Did it not start in a $200,000 race at Auckland one day against a couple of small runners. Have you forgotten what you thought of mr small and his tactics back then.      Try googling that.  Some of us do have memories. 

The worst team driving you will ever see - even Tim would acknowledge that.

Time to move on.

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5 hours ago, Brodie said:

Did Elsu return positives?

Ahhhh the late 90's and early 2000's. Where so many sporting performances whether racing or sport were so chemically enhanced its hilarious. I bet a couple of these trainers that have had numerous positives ( small and t butt ) dream of going back. 

Brodie do you think Bolt is clean? 

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2 hours ago, BackPoonDrinkGoon said:

Ahhhh the late 90's and early 2000's. Where so many sporting performances whether racing or sport were so chemically enhanced its hilarious. I bet a couple of these trainers that have had numerous positives ( small and t butt ) dream of going back. 

Brodie do you think Bolt is clean? 

BPDG, I wouldn't slander anyone therefore not prepared to comment.

As you know the testing never picks everything up does it ?

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7 hours ago, what a post said:

Sorry but your talking rubbish.  I hate no one  I'm consistent in my message.  Obviously your not.   You think it ok to defend Geoff small because you've  had an association with him while you condemn others of the same thing. That's double standards .  You need to get over the need to rewrite history.  As to my replies to mr vince I was simply highlighting his views are not backed up by facts.  When the Australians handed down the 2 year ban to mr small and described his record as appalling ,it was because they thought it was appalling. Mr small was guilty of the most blatant piece of team driving I have ever seen in that $200,000 race at Auckland a few years ago.    Do you know who was quoted in the papers as demanding something be done about it. It was Mr tim vince.    His  comments about people being fleas I thought funny given history.   As Dr phil always says, the best way to predict future behavior is past behavior. Personally I have nothing against Geoff small,good luck to him in the future,but don't tell me his past actions were appropriate.

your entitled to  your opinion as I am to mine, Australian  harness official's should  look before they leap, Australians are notorious  for doping horses. They cover up most. it is more recent  that they have started to pull their faces in from out of their arses.as in the racing industry they now jump the jockey's for having a bet.. real hard on that one.. that's been going on for years hasn't it guys. all codes. I've never met Geoff in person , just in passing. never met Tim Vince , had a few harsh words  at each another but we moved on... as for DR Phil,  watched him now and again.. he is not always correct in his summery, that depends on your value ethics... yours are truly different than mine,,   not double standards at all. Weather you are a Dexter Dunn,  tim butt, Geoff small, graham rodgerson,  daryl Bradley. or even steel balls.each one to different  people on racecafe are hero's like I said a selected few are hated, disliked or ridiculed by some on racecafe as okay. I think  and this is only my opinion not every one else's, that Geoff is an okay guy, great trainer.. did well with the few nags he trained for our syndicate, and I for one admire his talents.  just as I admire dexter  and each and every other trainer or driver for there's. so don't tell me  geoffs past actions were as bad as any one else's. I won't allow you or any one to bitch slap me for what I think , right or wrong ..   but I do  think you are entitled to your opinion even if I do not agree. without being nasty.  :) so now  we move on or do you want more?

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he got me in the another creation affair- I was mad alright- long moved on and get on good with him-   the truth of the matter is the loons out there always claim trainers are using when they have a good run- giving anyone credit in this game is alien to most people- u are allowed to win but not too much- a great friend of mine told me that 20 years ago and he was right. he should have known too had a lot of success.

Geoff small being lost to harness racing will affect harness more than it affects  Geoff small -he had his moments but so do a lot of people it aint a game for weaklings but to insinuate he is drugging horses and that is what u losers are  doing is disgraceful. He has more in his back pocket than u loons have in your  bank  and for all his years of hard work he deserves it.

 

your shift at smith and caughey will be finishing soon so go back to the tv have your buck each way and when u run second blame the trainer the jockey and anyone else u can think of.

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7 hours ago, tim vince said:

he got me in the another creation affair- I was mad alright- long moved on and get on good with him-   the truth of the matter is the loons out there always claim trainers are using when they have a good run- giving anyone credit in this game is alien to most people- u are allowed to win but not too much- a great friend of mine told me that 20 years ago and he was right. he should have known too had a lot of success.

Geoff small being lost to harness racing will affect harness more than it affects  Geoff small -he had his moments but so do a lot of people it aint a game for weaklings but to insinuate he is drugging horses and that is what u losers are  doing is disgraceful. He has more in his back pocket than u loons have in your  bank  and for all his years of hard work he deserves it.

 

your shift at smith and caughey will be finishing soon so go back to the tv have your buck each way and when u run second blame the trainer the jockey and anyone else u can think of.

 What I get tired of is the apologists for those caught cheating.   There would be merit in your argument if he had  a blemish free record,but he doesn't.   The person responsible for geoffs small tarnished reputation  is Geoff small. Its ridiculous to blame anyone else.       Who is saying he is drugging his horses now?   No doubt he was.  That was then,7 years ago.   I commented on this thread only because of your initial post.   The point being you thought it ok to bag him then,but not now when the facts are still the same.     Maybe you should ask yourself this.  Where does the ammunition come from for those who point to drug use as being factors in some stables success.  It comes from the stables who get the positives.      Also,if you think horse racing is exempt from the sports who use performance enhancers then you are in the minority,       One thing I did admire about the Geoff small/david buthcher combination was the way they handled their good fillies like de lovely,cow girls n Indians,copper beach etc. They never overdrove them and were able to peak them for the big races at the end of the season. That's part of his record as well.      Whats with the comment about 'more in the back pocket than what you loons have in the bank'.  Is that what you think it is all about?                                                                        Ive always thought people get hung up too much on what other people think anyway.  Everyones allowed to express their opinion but to quote dr phi 'my father used to say 'you would not worry about what people thought of you,if you knew how seldom they did'.                            

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what a post.. you watch to much television..

and DOCTOR PHIL at that...

no one has said Geoff is not responsible... as the trainer of those horses.

he has to except responsibility.. even  though he has never  been directly pin pointed as the \

person  that may had administrated the drugs.

very much along the lines of mark purdon and nigel McGrath  (blue magic)

never really proven but both excepted , responsibility because they were responsible for the horses in their care.

yours is more a personal attack on Geoff small rather than what you claim.. very disappointing, I'm sure if I did the same .

admin would be looking at me side ways and taking me aside  with a few choice words :)

starting to think  racecafe should start a book list of trainers drivers,owners,track staff,,etc, that had run amuck

and been caught out , doping or administering , milk shaking,  or stuff like that. may be  not to many would be left to do the job...

should we put you in charge of that?

sure you would keep it up to date and honest opinionated. 

 

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In between all the gratuitous insults and bad grammar, there appear to be two indisputable facts on this matter:

1.  Over the years, Geoff Small transgressed various rules of racing on a number of occasions (although several of those were ultimately subject to no official sanction), eventually receiving a lengthy suspension.

2.  In recent years, his training record has been a shadow of what it once was.

Facts 1 and 2 may or may not be related, but it's hardly drawing a long bow to suggest they might be.  And in trying to refute that connection, simply ignoring the existence of facts 1 and 2 isn't a very credible position.

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24 minutes ago, Basil said:

In between all the gratuitous insults and bad grammar, there appear to be two indisputable facts on this matter:

1.  Over the years, Geoff Small transgressed various rules of racing on a number of occasions (although several of those were ultimately subject to no official sanction), eventually receiving a lengthy suspension.

2.  In recent years, his training record has been a shadow of what it once was.

Facts 1 and 2 may or may not be related, but it's hardly drawing a long bow to suggest they might be.  And in trying to refute that connection, simply ignoring the existence of facts 1 and 2 isn't a very credible position.

Agree.    If you have a history of positives for performance enhancers then you can not avoid people expressing similar opinions.  They bring future comment/criticism upon themselves,  Its part of the territory, thats the way things work,always has been, always will..   Some 1 off positives can clearly be mistakes, but when there are several then the transgressors have to own that. I get tired of those who call people like me haters and refer to comments as personal attacks.   This assumption that anyone who mentions someones past indiscretions is a hater of said person and of what they have and may have achieved is ridiculous.  I assume its just a way of deflecting comment(that's the way things work as well), but its still ridiculous never the less.    Personally I do like the loyalty these fellows like final luca and mr vince have for Mr small. I think loyalty is a good thing, and obviously they must think mr small deserves it. 

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as stated in other posts, Geoff small hasn't been buying high priced  stock at sales

and  more likely not buying at all  as was stated.

this could and would be a mayor factor in his stable winning  big races as was the case a few years back. or not winning

 

he is  and always will be  one of the greats in harness racing, like  it  or not.

I just wonder who your next victim will be.  I will watch with interest.

 

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39 minutes ago, what a post said:

Agree.    If you have a history of positives for performance enhancers then you can not avoid people expressing similar opinions.  They bring future comment/criticism upon themselves,  Its part of the territory, thats the way things work,always has been, always will..   Some 1 off positives can clearly be mistakes, but when there are several then the transgressors have to own that. I get tired of those who call people like me haters and refer to comments as personal attacks.   This assumption that anyone who mentions someones past indiscretions is a hater of said person and of what they have and may have achieved is ridiculous.  I assume its just a way of deflecting comment(that's the way things work as well), but its still ridiculous never the less.    Personally I do like the loyalty these fellows like final luca and mr vince have for Mr small. I think loyalty is a good thing, and obviously they must think mr small deserves it. 

so your view would be the same with mark purdon and others then?

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The day is etched into my memory - 31 December 2006 - I described it then as Alexandra Park's greatest day of shame. 'Another Creation' was the Purdon runner, victim of the most blatant team-driving I'd ever witnessed in my life. G Small with 3 runners was the guilty party, one of his runners' chances completely sacrificed to pave the way for Changeover. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I imade sure i didn't see anything similar again, I left Alexandra Park and took up supporting  the thoroughbreds instead. Never went back. Blatant corruption, not even any pretence at subtlety. Forever etched in my memory.     

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I must admit I lacked a sense of humour at the time- my mate had 10k at 8's on our horse and was none 2 happy-I laugh about it now another chapter in the many experiences I have had over the years- things were a bit frosty between  us for a while but  I get on good with him now-spur of the moment stuff we've all done it in life. some I regret some I don't.

 

come back

 

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44 minutes ago, Right first time said:

The day is etched into my memory - 31 December 2006 - I described it then as Alexandra Park's greatest day of shame. 'Another Creation' was the Purdon runner, victim of the most blatant team-driving I'd ever witnessed in my life. G Small with 3 runners was the guilty party, one of his runners' chances completely sacrificed to pave the way for Changeover. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I imade sure i didn't see anything similar again, I left Alexandra Park and took up supporting  the thoroughbreds instead. Never went back. Blatant corruption, not even any pretence at subtlety. Forever etched in my memory.     

Ditto, that was the day I gave up on harness racing as well. Have the odd bet on premier nights but that blatant corruption as you put it so well turned me off forever. 

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Why would he want to continue?  He has done it all and you have to lose the hunger after a while surely.  I hear he is going to do very well in property shortly.  Got some subdivision going that will eclipse any horse race he ever won.  Good luck to him and his family.

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1 hour ago, Tropical said:

Why would he want to continue?  He has done it all and you have to lose the hunger after a while surely.  I hear he is going to do very well in property shortly.  Got some subdivision going that will eclipse any horse race he ever won.  Good luck to him and his family.

The reason he would want to continue would be because he enjoys what he does and enjoys the challenge that goes with it.         Good for him if he does well out of his property.   That seems to have been the one guaranteed way for horse trainers to make money, that is the capital gain on the properties they purchase for the purpose of training horses.  Unfortunately for the young fellows of today property prices are so high they will never be able to buy them just to train horses. If anything I would have thought with the pressure of the need to earn the almighty dollar removed then training horses would be even more enjoyable.

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