tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 why is it so huge and what can we learn from then-or do we just give in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 2 hours ago, tim vince said: why is it so huge and what can we learn from then-or do we just give in? 2 tracks 1200 odd horses is one of the main differences. It's not something we will ever do but gives you an idea of how out of control our number of tracks is. We can't replicate the fact that they have an enormous economy or the fact they have almost no competition for the betting dollar but there are aspects I'm sure we could replicate. I don't think we want to replicate not allowing children on course but the supply and demand thing is a common sense one. Saturation of racing isn't good for anywhere especially when racing is a global game where we can beam in the best from everywhere at almost no cost. Also we have three codes which again divides fans/punters. No such issue for them. MrBigStuff and Lloyd Vivian 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikecity 749 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 Professionally run from top to bottom. Two super racing surfaces and good horses and many of the best jockeys in the world. Interference in a race is minimal and dealt with harshly. Happy Valley is lot "party night" which is more like "yuppie night" where drinking beer and socializing seem to be the centre of attention. Shatin is definitely for the die-hard punters and is an hours trip on the subway from central station (with a couple of changes of subway routes). Facilities for the crowd are definitely better at Shatin with more seating indoors, however getting an indoor seat is almost impossible as so many people attend the meetings held there. Huge crowds leaving after the last race to take the subway and would suggest leaving before the last race even though there are extra subways put on especially for the races. Yes there is little competition for the gambling dollar in HK with only sports betting being offered on football matches. They do have a Sports Lottery which is similar to Lotto. The races are shown live on TV with full introductions and tips before each race and races are also shown live in TABs (which are packed). For me I love going to both courses mostly for the atmosphere and it reminds me of how racing was back in my younger days - stands packed, racing to see the horses parade before going into the birdcage and then hoping to get a spot in the stand again. chelseacol and nathanleslie 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBigStuff 398 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 No different to Singapore either with $35k minimum stakes. Stayed up to watch Bruce Marsh win the last race, delayed nearly an hour because of torrential rain and a storm and it was like no rain had fallen at all...track looked great. A top racing jurisdiction with one track and good prize money. Maybe not as good as HK but gee wouldn't mind having one run around for $35k min every week. Will never happen here in NZ sadly. Not enough people willing to make the tough calls that are required like reducing the number of courses in NZ. Also was good to listen to the Australian & New Zealand commentary team there. Sounds very professional and good to have a New Zealander in the mix with all the NZ interests that are in that part of Asia. mckenzie 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,867 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 Interesting discussion, and HK racing is great, but do people really think NZ racing would boom if we were to suddenly reduce down to three tracks; probably Ellerslie, Trentham and Riccarton? Kent 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, We're Doomed said: Interesting discussion, and HK racing is great, but do people really think NZ racing would boom if we were to suddenly reduce down to three tracks; probably Ellerslie, Trentham and Riccarton? Might last a week (provided it is in the height of summer that is - forget about it if it is between April and November esp in the north) I think Mr Big Stuff might need to be renamed Mr Good Stuff cos it sounds like that is what he is on. The difference between Hong Kong and here is simple - population. If we have 1% of our population interested in racing it is 42,000 people. If Hong Kong or Singapore do it is a million or more. Simple maths with a small dose of economics Kent 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 6 hours ago, MrBigStuff said: No different to Singapore either with $35k minimum stakes. Stayed up to watch Bruce Marsh win the last race, delayed nearly an hour because of torrential rain and a storm and it was like no rain had fallen at all...track looked great. A top racing jurisdiction with one track and good prize money. Maybe not as good as HK but gee wouldn't mind having one run around for $35k min every week. Will never happen here in NZ sadly. Not enough people willing to make the tough calls that are required like reducing the number of courses in NZ. Also was good to listen to the Australian & New Zealand commentary team there. Sounds very professional and good to have a New Zealander in the mix with all the NZ interests that are in that part of Asia. Once again the reducing the tracks crowd crow on about this like its the silver bullet that will save nz racing? How exactly does reducing the number of tracks in this country make racing any better? Unless you mean sell up assets that are owned by communities , run ,operated and paid for by communities and then give those powers that be the sales proceeds to build a flash new track ? Is that what you mean? Why would anyone in their right mind trust those that are running nz racing with sales proceeds to be able to do an effective job of this anyway? If thats what you mean? You'll have less racing in this country that there currently is if you reduce the number of tracks, what needs to happen imho in NZ is there needs to be better more effective use of existing assets like the tracks and not the total bias that has existed here for the past 30 years in favoring certain tracks/clubs, that's where someone needs to stand up and make the tough calls on! Midget, Insider, Breeder and 3 others 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,867 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Huey said: Once again the reducing the tracks crowd crow on about this like its the silver bullet that will save nz racing? How exactly does reducing the number of tracks in this country make racing any better? Unless you mean sell up assets that are owned by communities , run ,operated and paid for by communities and then give those powers that be the sales proceeds to build a flash new track ? Is that what you mean? Why would anyone in their right mind trust those that are running nz racing with sales proceeds to be able to do an effective job of this anyway? If thats what you mean? You'll have less racing in this country that there currently is if you reduce the number of tracks, what needs to happen imho in NZ is there needs to be better more effective use of existing assets like the tracks and not the total bias that has existed here for the past 30 years in favoring certain tracks/clubs, that's where someone needs to stand up and make the tough calls on! Well said. Strange as it may seem, and it does go against most logic, but one of the strengths of NZ racing is our range of diverse regional tracks. Laurie Sutherland, Pam Robson, Insider and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted March 19, 2017 2 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: Might last a week (provided it is in the height of summer that is - forget about it if it is between April and November esp in the north) I think Mr Big Stuff might need to be renamed Mr Good Stuff cos it sounds like that is what he is on. The difference between Hong Kong and here is simple - population. If we have 1% of our population interested in racing it is 42,000 people. If Hong Kong or Singapore do it is a million or more. Simple maths with a small dose of economics 7.188 million people in HK. Lets not compare Singapore as their crowds are shit most days and their turnover isn't great either (not that we wouldn't swap) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 20, 2017 3 tracks awt as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropical 49 Report post Posted March 22, 2017 Don't forget the trainer numbers up there as well. That would mean having to do away with all of our owner trainers and small timers. And those that don't perform have to state their case as to why they should stay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 22, 2017 different of course but couldn't we get some ideas from them- handicapping betting pools etc- the triple trio was dying up there and we introduced it- take the best not the worst. track curation etc - its different but the same Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,961 Report post Posted March 22, 2017 We took their handicapping model didn't we? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,090 Report post Posted March 22, 2017 56 minutes ago, Insider said: We took their handicapping model didn't we? Nope. They have a proper one where handicaps are actually handicaps with an 8-9kg weight spread. Black Kirrama 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted March 24, 2017 On 3/22/2017 at 5:13 PM, tim vince said: different of course but couldn't we get some ideas from them- handicapping betting pools etc- the triple trio was dying up there and we introduced it- take the best not the worst. track curation etc - its different but the same Prior to Triple Trio launching here I had an open mind. So I asked several close followers and visitors to Hong Kong how it would go here. I was shocked when to a tee they all said it would flop. Why didn't TAB ask those that actually knew something before wasting millions on marketing and operations. Quite simply the TT was good for 1990 technology and just too complicated compared to other options nowadays. If you can't beat them then perhaps join them. Maybe HK could invest into something giving cheaper horse air transport then closer ties could develop whereby NZ runs meetings for HK audience with greater interchange of horses. THen again the time difference not ideal. Nevertheless getting tourists from Hong Kong and China using racing as a bait must have some merit. Perhaps some sort of conference getting all interested parties together so that all the ideas can be aired would help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 25, 2017 no we don't have their rating system Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdt 293 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 Just a couple of things of note for Shatin tonight. Races 4 and 5 are on the all weather. If you went by the NZ TAB site you would have no idea this was the case. It's about time they got up to speed on this. What would be so difficult to note in the race name line that it was all weather eg the Blah Blah Blah Handicap 1200M (All Weather) The second thing of note is that jockey M Poon is back in HK and riding with a 4kg claim. This is the jockey who has ridden with a lot of success in South Australia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 14 minutes ago, kdt said: Just a couple of things of note for Shatin tonight. Races 4 and 5 are on the all weather. If you went by the NZ TAB site you would have no idea this was the case. It's about time they got up to speed on this. What would be so difficult to note in the race name line that it was all weather eg the Blah Blah Blah Handicap 1200M (All Weather) The second thing of note is that jockey M Poon is back in HK and riding with a 4kg claim. This is the jockey who has ridden with a lot of success in South Australia. You'd probably get that info in the comments. Oh that's right they don't have any. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harewood 477 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 5 hours ago, kdt said: The second thing of note is that jockey M Poon is back in HK and riding with a 4kg claim. This is the jockey who has ridden with a lot of success in South Australia. Correct. Mathew Poon, known colloquially in aus as The Poon Train has returned to HK after 18 months based in Adelaide. He gets a 4.5kg claim even thou he has ridden many winners. HKJC rules allow apprentices to claim from the moment they gain acceptance to ride in HK with a claim made depending on wins they have. Only group or listed races outside HK are counted. Therefore unless any apprentice has ridden more than 20 outside HK he will get the full claim. Although he rode a lot of winners in aus he wouldnt have got near 20 listed or group wins. Hence he gets the full claim. Get on The Poon Train while you can. He will be much sought after with such a claim for an accomplished rider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 The Poon Train - an incredible talent. Horses travel for him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...