Kavanagh & O'Brien cleared of cobalt charges

[Midget 4,489]

1 hour ago, CT said:

They have a strong team of horses entered for today short stuff and on paper they should be winning.

I'm pickin that Karma will come to the party early and begin intervening in its customary way. 

If there was such a thing as karma you would never have been hatched, unless your parents had commited some hideous crime of course.

[Guest 2Admin2]

15 minutes ago, Midget said:

If there was such a thing as karma you would never have been hatched, unless your parents had commited some hideous crime of course.

Inter course?

[Midget 4,489]

Just now, 2Admin2 said:

Inter course?

I don't think his parents ever met, surely he was the subject of a cruel experiment in a biology 101 class when a gender fluid lonely kid covered in acne mixed 15 mls of dysfunctional DNA with some scrambled eggs.

I can't bring myself to speculate on what happened next but I'm sure Alfred Hitchcock was in the mix somewhere.

[what a post 811]

6 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Your the only one getting flogged here idiot. Midget has said all along they would get off and outlined many months ago why. IE Science for starters. How you can post the above rubbish displays your stupidity once again on this forum.

 

Think you should read the decision properly before saying that.    Science does not appear to be  a factor in these fellows getting off. This decision actually endorsed the facts  as put forward by racing Victoria as to how the positives occurred..  511 to 514 of the decision. Carry on though,don't let the facts get  in the way of the put downs.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

12 hours ago, what a post said:

Think you should read the decision properly before saying that.    Science does not appear to be  a factor in these fellows getting off. This decision actually endorsed the facts  as put forward by racing Victoria as to how the positives occurred..  511 to 514 of the decision. Carry on though,don't let the facts get  in the way of the put downs.

What makes you think i havent?

Taken from an earlier post

"

The first issue here is how it was used and the type of cobalt administered. RV and their advisers didn't understand the science, they relentlessly pursued these three trainers because like you three paranoid conspirators although they didn't understand the science but they wanted a victim, probably because the Eastern Europeans had reputedly been using pharmaceutical grade cobalt at the Winter Olympics, just as they use Xenon ( there you go nutters, Google Xenon now ) and RV decided Cobalt was being used illegally in the racing industry, just as they had decided incorrectly that ITPP was being used a few years back ( it wasn't but there was a hell of a fuss about it, even here in NZ  ) and they went off half cocked, with bad advice, and now they've been exposed as fools, but to make matters worse, and this is the second issue, and it's much worse because it undermines the integrity of RV, their stewards, and the Integrity Dept, they've tried to bolster their case by lying, presumably because at some stage a vet or scientist said to them " hey guys, have you considered that xxxxxxxx might have happened rather than xxxxxxx", and that's exactly why these guys have got off, not because of a technicality as the loser CT claims, but because the evidence didn't meet the required threshold, the pieces just didn't fit the puzzle.

In other words RV had "made" the evidence fit the puzzle, but the courts of the land require rather more than elastic alternate facts, and the facts used to prosecute these men were more than elastic, they weren't proven to be absolute, and there was considerable doubt about multiple facets, the testing protocols for example, and or if the trainers even knew what their horses were being given by the veterinarian they entrusted to give them professional advice.

Your entitled as always to your opinion and moi mine. A case of agree to disagree perhaps

[Whyisit 232]

59 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

What makes you think i havent?

Taken from an earlier post

"

The first issue here is how it was used and the type of cobalt administered. RV and their advisers didn't understand the science, they relentlessly pursued these three trainers because like you three paranoid conspirators although they didn't understand the science but they wanted a victim, probably because the Eastern Europeans had reputedly been using pharmaceutical grade cobalt at the Winter Olympics, just as they use Xenon ( there you go nutters, Google Xenon now ) and RV decided Cobalt was being used illegally in the racing industry, just as they had decided incorrectly that ITPP was being used a few years back ( it wasn't but there was a hell of a fuss about it, even here in NZ  ) and they went off half cocked, with bad advice, and now they've been exposed as fools, but to make matters worse, and this is the second issue, and it's much worse because it undermines the integrity of RV, their stewards, and the Integrity Dept, they've tried to bolster their case by lying, presumably because at some stage a vet or scientist said to them " hey guys, have you considered that xxxxxxxx might have happened rather than xxxxxxx", and that's exactly why these guys have got off, not because of a technicality as the loser CT claims, but because the evidence didn't meet the required threshold, the pieces just didn't fit the puzzle.

In other words RV had "made" the evidence fit the puzzle, but the courts of the land require rather more than elastic alternate facts, and the facts used to prosecute these men were more than elastic, they weren't proven to be absolute, and there was considerable doubt about multiple facets, the testing protocols for example, and or if the trainers even knew what their horses were being given by the veterinarian they entrusted to give them professional advice.

Your entitled as always to your opinion and moi mine. A case of agree to disagree perhaps

mmm... methinks Newmarket should change his moniker to MMM  'midgets mystery minder' or perhaps it's midge as well.

 

BTW Midget the drug you get  from Australian background mightn't really be of much use .Kiwi GINGERNUTS GAVE THE AUSSIES A THRASHING IN THE GUINEAS YESTERDAY shit he couldn't even win a race at Stratford.

[CT"s 310]

1 hour ago, Whyisit said:

mmm... methinks Newmarket should change his moniker to MMM  'midgets mystery minder' or perhaps it's midge as well.

 

BTW Midget the drug you get  from Australian background mightn't really be of much use .Kiwi GINGERNUTS GAVE THE AUSSIES A THRASHING IN THE GUINEAS YESTERDAY shit he couldn't even win a race at Stratford.

Can someone please put a password on short stuff's computer so his child Newmarket can't access racecafe.

This is an adults only discussion thanks for people with a higher IQ than Newmarket's age. 

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

37 minutes ago, CT said:

Can someone please put a password on short stuff's computer so his child Newmarket can't access racecafe.

This is an adults only discussion thanks for people with a higher IQ than Newmarket's age. 

If its adults only you and the other maiden R50 are once again out of your depth. You should only post when  doing what you do best tipping 1.50 losers as certainties, you have certainly mastered that art.

[Midget 4,489]

2 hours ago, Whyisit said:

mmm... methinks Newmarket should change his moniker to MMM  'midgets mystery minder' or perhaps it's midge as well.

 

BTW Midget the drug you get  from Australian background mightn't really be of much use .Kiwi GINGERNUTS GAVE THE AUSSIES A THRASHING IN THE GUINEAS YESTERDAY shit he couldn't even win a race at Stratford.

I'd say the entire Te Akau team is being treated appropriately given the way they're running, and of course they have a very progressive vet advising them.

[slam dunk 1,317]

This VCAT decision is certainly devoid of justice.

THe tribunal were of no doubt that Cobalt was administered therefore its academic whether the testing technicalties were followed according to the rules.

Trainers are aware of the various vitamin products available. If the $3000 cash payment is to be accepted then it follows the "product" would have been tested in some way previously. Trainers aren't expected to know the chemical composition of every product but they do study the "results". The trainers lets face it don't want to break the rules so convince themselves that vitamins are quite alright. Thats quite logical but when a vet comes along a says this vitamin product is special give it a try, and it works, well naturally they will fork out $3000 but only then.

Here is my take which differs to that accepted. THe trainers are more guilty than Dr Brennan because they would know the effect given other factors in a horses preparation  by factors I mean feed, work, change of gear etc. Therefore the onus was on them to fully ascertain the composition. 

Seems the trainers were lucky to strike judges not street smart with racing.

[Whyisit 232]

On 3/19/2017 at 0:31 PM, Midget said:

I'd say the entire Te Akau team is being treated appropriately given the way they're running, and of course they have a very progressive vet advising them.

Trouble is midget all the trainers in the race in Oz have very progressive vets advising them and treating their horses so it became a level playing ground on raceday and the superior trainer ability of Stephen and Jamie won the race on the day.

I'm sure the managerial skill of David Ellis over many years has had him engage the best vets available and like all racing training establisments there a high and lows experienced in racing not always attributable to the vet engaged.

[Midget 4,489]

SD, why should I bother with you ? you're ignorant and uneducated in such matters and your record in racing proves as much.

Whyisit, I get your drift but I don't like discussing veterinary matters unless it's to correct a glaring anomaly so let's just say you're in charge of this "who's doing what to whom business", good luck.

 

[slam dunk 1,317]

1 hour ago, Midget said:

SD, why should I bother with you ? you're ignorant and uneducated in such matters and your record in racing proves as much.

Whyisit, I get your drift but I don't like discussing veterinary matters unless it's to correct a glaring anomaly so let's just say you're in charge of this "who's doing what to whom business", good luck.

 

And why do many of us have to put up with your constant abuse? Sometimes it may be witty and entertainment for some but for others its just plain vicious and devious.

You talk about nutters but what can be so nutty as setting up an abuse factory. (Edited) What person in their right mind would persist in this absurd charade for as you have admitted "I get amusement out of doing it". Surely there is better things to do. We don't have the finances to take you to court and then you don't care you've got....(edited)

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

1 hour ago, Whyisit said:

Trouble is midget all the trainers in the race in Oz have very progressive vets advising them and treating their horses so it became a level playing ground on raceday and the superior trainer ability of Stephen and Jamie won the race on the day.

I'm sure the managerial skill of David Ellis over many years has had him engage the best vets available and like all racing training establisments there a high and lows experienced in racing not always attributable to the vet engaged.

Dont be afraid to give the horse some credit- yes

[Midget 4,489]

39 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

And why do many of us have to put up with your constant abuse? Sometimes it may be witty and entertainment for some but for others its just plain vicious and devious.

You talk about nutters but what can be so nutty as setting up an abuse factory. (Edited) What person in their right mind would persist in this absurd charade for as you have admitted "I get amusement out of doing it". Surely there is better things to do. We don't have the finances to take you to court and then you don't care you've got....(edited)

C'mon SD, everyone knows you have a Plumley-Walker fetish and you love being flogged......instead of boosting the local economy and getting Renee Melanie Chignal to batter your sorry arse you come here and get me to flog you, for free......you love it.....now bend over and take it like a man you poxy moron...XXXXXXXXX 

[slam dunk 1,317]

1 minute ago, Midget said:

C'mon SD, everyone knows you have a Plumley-Walker fetish and you love being flogged......instead of boosting the local economy and getting Renee Melanie Chignal to batter your sorry arse you come here and get me to flog you, for free......you love it.....now bend over and take it like a man you poxy moron...XXXXXXXXX 

You are plain pathetic. Obviously admin thought your fragile mind  couldn't take my posting so had it edited. 

[Guest 2Admin2]

1 minute ago, slam dunk said:

You are plain pathetic. Obviously admin thought your fragile mind  couldn't take my posting so had it edited. 

No.  What you wrote I know to be factually incorrect.  

[slam dunk 1,317]

11 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

No.  What you wrote I know to be factually incorrect.  

Then why don't you check out what Midget posts is fact?

[Guest 2Admin2]

1 minute ago, slam dunk said:

Then why don't you check out what Midget posts is fact?

I don't know if they are incorrect or correct so they stand until proven otherwise.

[Midget 4,489]

14 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

Then why don't you check out what Midget posts is fact?

Did you ask for the "two for the price of one" double flogging today SD ?

I'll bet you support the Warriors, the Phoenix, and you vote Labour, because you seem to love being flogged.

[Leggy 4,077]

On 19/03/2017 at 4:37 PM, slam dunk said:

This VCAT decision is certainly devoid of justice.

THe tribunal were of no doubt that Cobalt was administered therefore its academic whether the testing technicalities were followed according to the rules.

 

That comment is even dumber than some of your others on this thread.

That the horses were administered cobalt salts is not in question. Brennan has already gone down for that.

Of the 3 alternate charges laid against the trainers, two, AR178 and AR175(h)(ii), require a tested sample to have a prohibited substance present. It is not a technicality if the samples were not tested by accredited labs and there is consequently no admissible evidence of the positive. As someone pointed out on the other channel, that's like holding a murder trial where there is no evidence that anyone is dead.

The third alternative charge, AR175(h)(i), is administration, and the evidence is clear that the trainers had no knowledge that the horses were administered cobalt salts.

You make out you have read the decision. I suggest you try again from the start.

[CT"s 310]

Here's a question for short stuff and his illiterate lap dog Newmarket while I wait another hour before boarding my second flight to Nanjing for today.

Where does the ultimate responsibility lie when it comes to what and when a horse is injected with?

Is it the vet or is it the trainer?

Because this ridiculous ruling sets a dangerous precedent for all future vets knowing that your trainer can easily throw you under the bus if caught as was the case with this poor bugger Brennan.

Also, how many trainers out there knowingly write out a cheque for 3K without knowing what the 3K is for? 

One other piece of public factual information is the fact that Danny O'Brien was told by Brennan that "performance enhancing levels of cobalt were undetectable in pacers" before the decision was made to use it on his own horses. 

Anyway Karma has already started it's natural process with no winners to either of these dodgy shysters over the weekend.  

 

[Leggy 4,077]

8 minutes ago, CT said:

One other piece of public factual information is the fact that Danny O'Brien was told by Brennan that "performance enhancing levels of cobalt were undetectable in pacers" before the decision was made to use it on his own horses.

Even if it is a "fact" that he was told that (and I suspect it is hearsay, not fact), it is wrong. There are no known performance enhancing levels of cobalt in horses.

[Midget 4,489]

There's no point in engaging with you Tommo, you have a closed mind on the matter and your lack of understanding is such that it'd be futile trying to re-educate you.

If you really want to develop a reasonable understanding why don't you read the 4,783 previous posts on the subject then maybe we can have an intelligent conversation.....hold on.....intelligent ?

[Guest 2Admin2]

26 minutes ago, CT said:

Here's a question for short stuff and his illiterate lap dog Newmarket while I wait another hour before boarding my second flight to Nanjing for today.

Where does the ultimate responsibility lie when it comes to what and when a horse is injected with?

Is it the vet or is it the trainer?

Because this ridiculous ruling sets a dangerous precedent for all future vets knowing that your trainer can easily throw you under the bus if caught as was the case with this poor bugger Brennan.

Also, how many trainers out there knowingly write out a cheque for 3K without knowing what the 3K is for? 

One other piece of public factual information is the fact that Danny O'Brien was told by Brennan that "performance enhancing levels of cobalt were undetectable in pacers" before the decision was made to use it on his own horses. 

Anyway Karma has already started it's natural process with no winners to either of these dodgy shysters over the weekend.  

 

Why would you fly to Nanjing twice in one day?

So is Brennan a victim or a whore?