Auckland Cup...Why not New Years Day?

[porky 900]

Forget the Weather...Two dates 

1.Melbourne Cup...1st Tuesday in November 

2.Auckland Cup...New Years Day (along with Huge Hastings pic-nic day)...were forever etched in my calendar memory.

I still scratch my head at the date change !.... May give some of the marketing people and contracted consultants something to ponder,

at further racing expense...How do the two dates line up?...Crowd and Income wise? (I have no idea, and hav'nt researched).  

[rdytdy 5,341]

 

It's a no brainer Porky the Auckland Cup should have been left where it was...... New Year's Day.  

[Midget 4,489]

Rubbish.

Australia runs a spring and an autumn carnival, horses can't be kept up all season, they're not machines, and NZ should do the same, focus on sequential carnivals through the spring ( Hastings maybe, then Riccarton ) then take a short break from top level racing, and bring the horses back up for the autumn culminating in a major carnival that leads into the Australian autumn carnivals.

You wouldn't get one single decent horse that could be up in the spring, compete at two miles on New Years Day, then continue on for the duration of the season.

It'd be a far better argument to propose sequencing of shorter races across the country that culminate in a late summer early autumn contest for a lot of money I'd have thought, and the various lead in races would have some sort of realisticly attainable bonuses attached and obviously be part of a preferred qualifying criteria for the big event, which should take place about now in an ideal calendar.

Horses have changed, they're evolving as a species through human orchestrated selection, they're not as tough as they used to be, they're trained differently, and they simply cannot race as often and remain fit and healthy, and all you senile old bastards need to understand that and stop living in the past reminiscing about your fading  dreams of the "good old days".

[rdytdy 5,341]

 

The Auckland Cup has been a flop since it has been moved. Sometimes you need to go back to go forward.

 

[Midget 4,489]

4 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

 

The Auckland Cup has been a flop since it has been moved. Sometimes you need to go back to go forward.

 

And the NZ Cup is not a flop !!

That's a manifestation of three things, the type of stallion we're using now, secondly, in an impoverished racing climate most young horses are sold abroad, and it follows that no decent animals are retained for domestic racing, and thirdly, the current handicapping model means older males cannot be kept racing unless they're up to WFA class ( and can then escape the clutches of this hopeless fucking model they're using ) so you end up with a paucity of older males racing, and the staying events suffer.

Stop living on faded dreams Ted, go down to the chemists and buy a large bottle of Reality Check, and take the whole lot.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

12 minutes ago, Midget said:

 and all you senile old bastards need to understand that and stop living in the past reminiscing about your fading  dreams of the "good old days".

ah those were the days ..... handwritten yellow TAB tickets

and 'no stilettos in the back seat - you might rip the hood lining' 

[Midget 4,489]

1 minute ago, von Smallhaussen said:

ah those were the days ..... handwritten yellow TAB tickets

and 'no stilettos in the back seat - you might rip the hood lining' 

I always thought you looked dashing in stilettos, at the Royal Oak.

[rdytdy 5,341]

The reality is that the Cup for a number of reasons does not resonate with the public in March.

Just read the posts on here since the change, an overwhelming view that it should have been left where it was. You can fire a shot gun in the stands on Cup Day and wouldn't harm a soul, there is no one to hit.

[Centrofold 147]

I disagree.  Initially I did not like the idea of Auckland Cup Day being shifted from New Years Day.  We generally do not like change.

However, I have grown to like the idea of Cup Day being in March.  The tracks are, in general a lot kinder to the thoroughbreds.  If the track is wet, it is a test of strength and endurance.   The year I witnessed Cent Home break down in the home straight put me right off wanting to see horses race on the hard and dry tracks of yesteryear on New Years Day..  

The meeting carnival over Christmas New Year is successful and for the most part so is the Derby/Cup Carnival in March.

I do not wish to see things go backward.  Mind you Stakes Day in March has always been a favourite race day of mine and Autumn is my favourite time of year.  Not to mention the track gets watered for free.  

See you at Ellerslie on Thursday, weather Gods permitting.  

 

Cheers Jane

[Midget 4,489]

47 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

The reality is that the Cup for a number of reasons does not resonate with the public in March.

Just read the posts on here since the change, an overwhelming view that it should have been left where it was. You can fire a shot gun in the stands on Cup Day and wouldn't harm a soul, there is no one to hit.

Silly argument, you seldom see crowds at any meeting now unless it's a cultural occasion like Boxing Day, or Kumara.

As for the posts on here, come on, half of us are piss takers who like winding others up, the rest are disenchanted, disillusioned and hapless low achievers who blame the industry because they can't make an impression.

I doubt Cafe reflects anything other than the views of the disenchanted, except for a few exception, such as when I post in which case it's an informed and relevant expert opinion, or something I've been told to say by the leaky residents at head office.

Return serve please .....

[porky 900]

22 minutes ago, Midget said:

You wouldn't get one single decent horse that could be up in the spring, compete at two miles on New Years Day

 

Midget, Do you have betting figures ? old and new?

(have deleted a few sentences, and agree entirely)

Whats more...maybe the powers that be, in combination with trainers, need to sit down and nut out the staying Calendar again, so races and meetings compliment each other,

I mean you,ve got all the smaller distance cups e.g H.B / Waikato 22-2400 ish cups into (3200  Wellington cup 21st Jan/ Auckland 11th March)...

( Hard to produce a tough Melbourne cup hopeful for the first Tuesday in November)...send em over there I suppose after spell. 

I reckon they borrow lotto,s spinning cage  to organise dates...LOL

Another 3 day staying meeting , in Spring, along with Hastings, as a lead up to Melbourne (and if horses not quite up to that standard)

...always (Auckland 1st jan)...chuck a December 2400 in for a lead up...

Followed by your Wellington Cup (21st Jan)  

[We're Doomed 4,855]

22 minutes ago, Midget said:

Silly argument, you seldom see crowds at any meeting now unless it's a cultural occasion like Boxing Day, or Kumara.

As for the posts on here, come on, half of us are piss takers who like winding others up, the rest are disenchanted, disillusioned and hapless low achievers who blame the industry because they can't make an impression.

I doubt Cafe reflects anything other than the views of the disenchanted, except for a few exception, such as when I post in which case it's an informed and relevant expert opinion, or something I've been told to say by the leaky residents at head office.

Return serve please .....

Midget does add that touch of charm and refinement that a forum like this would otherwise lack.

[Leggy 4,076]

5 minutes ago, porky said:

Midget, Do you have betting figures ? old and new?

(have deleted a few sentences, and agree entirely)

Whats more...maybe the powers that be, in combination with trainers, need to sit down and nut out the staying Calendar again, so races and meetings compliment each other,

 

Might be a good idea if they considered the likely seasonal track capabilities too. Something that calendars of old were founded on but seem to have become completely ignored.

[chelseacol 2,488]

I will go against the tide as well and say I like the March cup week (and yeah I know the trotting cup isn't on anymore)

Its an annual expedition for a few of us from ChCh - we keep the akl economy going and have a ball.No way I'm doing that for New Year - and those dates across xmas still seem to go ok. So now got two carnivals. As Midget says outside Cup Week in ChCh when do you ever get crowds on course ?

Right now I'm recovered from the red wine at the trots last night I better get up and head into town for some lunch and hit Right Tracks

 

 

[final luca 189]

i'm quite sure January  1st in Auckland wasn't a bad day... doubt very much if it was any where near the crap of this week

the one thing I miss  about Auckland  is the Auckland trotting cup and  a few days later the Auckland gallop cup.. those were brilliant years .. where trainers  had a horse in nz cup, then put then out for a couple of weeks  and brought them back for Auckland cup  and same as wellington cup (2 miles) showed  just how talented the trainers were in those days(not that some are not talented these days so don't get off high horse) Put it back to January 1st... aucklanders can no longer afford to go away  at that time of year so stay home makes sense, to get them to the races, and lower the gate charges, the price they charge is criminal.

 

 

[2Piper 408]

13 hours ago, rdytdy said:

 

The Auckland Cup has been a flop since it has been moved. Sometimes you need to go back to go forward.

 

Very true. Look how many times the Auckland Cup in March has been affected  by the weather. 

[Trump 2,741]

What many of the "move the cup back to January" movement are forgetting is two things. Firstly, the people do not go to the races like the "olden days".  Also, there are now "two" race meetings, two carnivals, which provide more betting turnover and hence, better returns to the Industry. It's a no brainer.

[rdytdy 5,341]

The no brainer Ernie is to move the Auckland Cup back to New Year's Day and place the City Of Auckland Cup in March.  

Just as a matter of interest would you mind confirming what years you were on the ARC Board.  

[Midget 4,489]

Agree to disagree Ted, they've got it right.

I reckon they'll get a decent crowd Thursday, it'll be a great night.

You should be thinking about reshaping the calendar Ted, training stayers is like having sex ( do you still do that ? ) you've got to start slowly, build gradually over a long period, if you're doing it right, then use a huge amount of energy and resources to complete the final contest.....and it takes time to reload to go again.

It's not like sprinting where you can whip out the back for a quickie and be back drinking with your mates 90 seconds later.

That's how the Cups should be, like the former, and all the marathons should fall within a short window at three week intervals, and the calendar should build all season leading into that small window.

It's not the Auckland Cup that's in the wrong window, it's the NZ and Wellington Cups that need to be repositioned, and to make it all really work you'd need to incentivize the entire sequence, not penalize the fuck out of the winners being prepared for the big event.

You've got a good brain on you Ted, think about it and reorganize the program, it can be your legacy..

[porky 900]

Midget...move back to New Years Day

22 hours ago, porky said:

Midget,...Answer the question I asked earlier please... Do you have betting figures ? old and new?

And read below... IT IS SAYING EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE ;    (with Auckland Cup. New Years Day)

 

Whats more...maybe the powers that be, in combination with trainers, need to sit down and nut out the staying Calendar again, so races and meetings compliment each other,

I mean you,ve got all the smaller distance cups e.g H.B / Waikato 22-2400 ish cups into... (NZ cup Nov / Akl 1st Jan / Wellington cup 21st Jan )...

( Hard to produce a tough Melbourne cup hopeful for the first Tuesday in November)...send em over there I suppose after spell to prepare. 

I reckon they borrow lotto,s spinning cage  to organise dates...LOL

Another 3 day staying meeting , in Spring, along with Hastings, as a lead up to Melbourne (Aug-Oct)

( if horses not quite up to Melb standard)

NZ CUP Riccarton (Nov) 

December 2400 lead up to (Auckland Cup 1st jan)...

Followed by your Wellington Cup (21st Jan)  

As I said befofe 

[Midget 4,489]

Roger that Porky but we're not agreeing on when the season climaxes, I'm saying you build to the end of summer marathon which gives you a decent build up, with associated hype, and in turn leads you into the Sydney carnival, you're though arguing that you peak on January 1....which leads you nowhere because you then have a horse who's peaked, lost his leg speed, needs a short break, but can't do that and remain competitive in the same season.

To each his own opinion though I suppose but I simply cannot see a single reason to have a horse peak half way through the season.

Look what peaking for the VRC Derby or Melbourne Cup does to horses, they're mostly written off for the year after climbing to those heights. Why would you want to do that ? Surely you want your best horses racing each other all summer then have a grand finale.

 

[porky 900]

cheers for the reply Midget...I,m no trainer mate

My calendar did cover spring and summer in NZ  , and if Sydney cup the mission over Melb for our top stayers ...maybe your right!

[Midget 4,489]

Melbourne comes too soon for us, NZ horses have hardly come in the coat in early November let alone had decent enough ground to get fit for a two mile slog without risking injury.

You could of course base yourself in Australia from say August on if you really wanted to have a go at the MC but that's a logistical nightmare, not to mention hideously expensive.

Unless you're targeting Hastings or Riccarton in the spring you'd hardly even want a top class NZ stayer who needs good ground stepping out until some time in mid to late October, and that does rather mean your season of say 10-12 starts maximum should ideally be spread over the months of October through April with races at about three week intervals ( plus or minus a week here and there obviously ).

That's my ideal world anyway but as I said, it's only my opinion.

 

[final luca 189]

well, I reckon the aussies should move the Melbourne cup to janurary to fit in with the nz cup in nov,well cup in jan, and take a breatha  for the Auckland cup in march  when 8/10 times it is pissing down and your so called champion stayers can't run in the mud... were as, when run in January over the last 40 years (some old fella should know) how many times has the Auckland cup run in January actually had really, really bad rain full? yep I agree with some  the Auckland cup should be able to pull in a large crowd but the every day average nz no longer goes to the races, most can not afford to go and bet as well what you get is the die hard pretenders that make out they are loaded (money) and go to impress the meat market that puts themselves on the shelf for all to perve at.. and get totally pissed and near stupid. na, January or march that will happen  but for the safety of these young ladies that wear gear up to their chins, it really is warmer for them in January,  Melbourne cup,nz cup, Auckland cup and then wellington cup and I think (not sure) Sydney cup follows  ... others might want to agree but that's another sausage on ya Barbie.

 

[final luca 189]

also,  unless  companies have changed  most use to close for the Christmas period , and staff got paid their Christmas pay/bonus etc , how many actually close down and pay out holiday pay or bonuses in march? I know  most are on good wages but when I was a young fella in shorts going to the Christmas races that's how I did it..   and most of you are very good punters and win your stake for Auckland cup day... or put money a side some can not do that. please let me know how you all manage