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Future Stallion For Waikato Stud

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Waikato Stud moves for Group One contender

8 March 2017, 5:40 p.m.

Matamata powerhouse Waikato Stud have delved back into the stallion market with their latest purchase having the potential for a bumper early return.

Farm principal Mark Chittick has secured a major interest in the Michael Moroney-trained Tivaci, who on Saturday will chase his first Group One victory in the $A1.25 million Newmarket Handicap at Flemington.

tivaci_0787%20-%20Darryl%20Sherer%20300p
Tivaci Photo: Darryl Sherer

The four-year-old is the dual Group Three winner of the C.S. Hayes Stakes and the Sunshine Coast Guineas and he was also Group One-placed in the spring in the Cantala Stakes and the Toorak Handicap.

“We’ve always got an eye out and the competition for stallions is fierce across Australasia,” Chittick said.

“Before his latest Listed win (in the Kensington Stakes) we were very interested and the impressive times he ran got us motivated to get moving on a deal.

“He’s by High Chaparral out of a Fastnet Rock mare and 1600 metres is his limit. As a three-year-old they tried to get him to a Derby, but it took a couple of races to learn that he wasn’t effective beyond a mile.

“He’s a fantastic specimen with a great turn of foot and his pedigree will really suit our broodmare band. He’ll cross so well with our mares by O’Reilly, Pins and Savabeel.

“We are very excited to have got the deal done and he will definitely be standing here at Waikato Stud later this year.”

Purchased by agent Paul Moroney as a yearling for $A250,00, Tivaci is out of the multiple winner Breccia, who is a half-sister to the Gr.1 Toorak Handicap winner Allez Wonder and the Gr.3 Chairman’s Handicap winner Pretty Pins.

“He really is a big, strong and imposing horse and we’re looking forward to the rest of his racing career before he comes to Waikato Stud,” Chittick said.

Tivaci will stand this spring alongside Savabeel, Pins, Ocean Park, Sacred Falls, Rock ‘N’ Pop and Rios. – NZ Racing Desk.

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Waikato Stud have also have purchased shares in Hall Of Fame, so hopefully he progresses and can perform in Australia.

The stallion game is getting so expensive they have to invest early without the big ones on the board. These guys are a long way of Ocean Park/Savabeel & Sacred Falls in terms of race record.

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18 hours ago, Breeder said:

Talking about new stallions , where is Turn Me loose likely to end up ?

I heard the whispers were early on for Waikato Stud (may not be true though with the recent announcements), Owners are very keen for the horse to be sold to an Australian stud

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On 4/16/2017 at 11:03 AM, Nasrullah said:

$15,000+ GST

Discussing him yesterday with a friend, I said $15,000 has to be the fee. 

Given that they have kept Ocean Park at 30k I could be wide of the mark. 

I think that Waikato Stud are the very best in the industry but keeping OP at 30k is wide of the mark and more than 15k for Tivaci would be too much to. 

Guess we have to wait and see. 

I would/will use the later at 15k but not at 20k. 17.5k at a pinch, simply based on their success although they will be big competitors in the ring and will sell everything in K2 unreserved which doesn't help anyone else with a K2 colt or filly. 

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Mongolian khan went out at a very respectable $10k, $15k not out of the ball park but anything above would be. I'd have him at value at $12,500 to fit a market - he'd need to be careful at $15k plus given other more proven stallions at $15. 

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The telling difference is Holy Roman Emporer verses High Chaparral and the distances the two colts won over. Tivarci's ability to sprint against the best and win a Group One at 1400m has a lot of appeal going forward.

It will be interesting to see what Waikato decide on, given we are saying $12,500 or $15,000.

I will almost bet that they will go for more!!!!

 

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is it taken into consideration thought that despite him winning a group 1 on paper, it was on a wet track, against what was perhaps a rather ordinary group 1 field compared to his 3 runs prior to that, were they were really tough group 1's.  would that concern breeders?

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16 minutes ago, Varro said:

is it taken into consideration thought that despite him winning a group 1 on paper, it was on a wet track, against what was perhaps a rather ordinary group 1 field compared to his 3 runs prior to that, were they were really tough group 1's.  would that concern breeders?

He was very unlucky in the Newmarket, ran a slashing 4th in a TJ and then won a WFA 1400m G1 race fair and square coming from last on a track not favouring backmarkers (beating proven G1 winners)

Also he was G1 placed twice at a mile in the spring so while not being a superstar is more than proven as a true adaptable G1 performer from 6f-8f.

 

 

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I agree entirely that he is a genuine group 1 horse, who has run great races this term.  But he wasn't running this good as a 3 and 4 year old I believe, and his group 1 was on a wet track.  I guess my point is, he potentially took some time to develop to be the good sprinter-miler he is today, were as there are more early types, and if he stood at 15k this might be a bit of a risk to take.

 

I appreciate any selection is a risk, but I am not sure, he seems to come into his own as a 5 year old, were if he was perhaps like this as a 3 and/or 4 year old, he would be a more attractive proposition.

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3 minutes ago, Varro said:

I agree entirely that he is a genuine group 1 horse, who has run great races this term.  But he wasn't running this good as a 3 and 4 year old I believe, and his group 1 was on a wet track.  I guess my point is, he potentially took some time to develop to be the good sprinter-miler he is today, were as there are more early types, and if he stood at 15k this might be a bit of a risk to take.

 

I appreciate any selection is a risk, but I am not sure, he seems to come into his own as a 5 year old, were if he was perhaps like this as a 3 and/or 4 year old, he would be a more attractive proposition.

He's only 4 mate!

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22 hours ago, Insider said:

The telling difference is Holy Roman Emporer verses High Chaparral and the distances the two colts won over. Tivarci's ability to sprint against the best and win a Group One at 1400m has a lot of appeal going forward.

It will be interesting to see what Waikato decide on, given we are saying $12,500 or $15,000.

I will almost bet that they will go for more!!!!

 

Actually, the telling difference is MK ran 9 times as a three year old and won 7 times at three, including the Nz and Australian derby....,an imposing record against the very best ...

And carried on at four to win a feature G1 to make it 2 group ones in AU.

 

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22 hours ago, Insider said:

The telling difference is Holy Roman Emporer verses High Chaparral and the distances the two colts won over. Tivarci's ability to sprint against the best and win a Group One at 1400m has a lot of appeal going forward.

It will be interesting to see what Waikato decide on, given we are saying $12,500 or $15,000.

I will almost bet that they will go for more!!!!

 

Insider, I like him too.

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Bloodlines/Breeding versus Performance? Which one are you backing  Dopey? 

Personally I prefer the bloodlines of Tirvarci. 

I guess only time will tell although I would love to see MK make it big time from a staying perspective irrespective of Holy Roman Emperor. 

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Very hard to compare Mongolian Khan to Tivaci, very different horses on pedigree, commercially and on race performance.

First of all Mongolian Khan was a Stayer, his best performance under 2000m in his career was winning a R65 mile and running 4th in a Underwood Stakes, but at 2400m he has 3 G1 wins including 2 Derby's and a Caulfield Cup Handicap G1.

As good a record as he had at 2000m and above (Outstanding record at 2400m) commercially he is not that appealing being a true 2400m horse and the fact that his pedigree is modest at best, he is a cracking good looker though and probably his service fee is about right and he served a large sized book of 148 mares last spring including some very good support from the Inner Mongolia Rider Horse Industry so has been given every chance to succeed.

Tivaci is a dual G3 winner at 3 over 1400m (beating Palentino) & 1600m, his form was solid without being spectacular and he was tested to run a derby trip which backfired as in his career he failed badly at his 2 runs over 1800m, at 4 his form has been very good from 1000m-1600m (a good listed win at 1000m, a G2 placing and G1 4th at 1200m,  G1 WFA win at 1400m and 2 G1 placings at a mile). So he did end up proving himself as a genuine G1 horse without being a true superstar, the thing that Tivaci has is a huge turn of foot.

He is a very good looking imposing horse and pedigree wise he is a son of High Chaparral (who's sons at stud numbers are increasing massively Contributer/Dundeel/Toronado/Redwood etc), out of a winning Fastnet Rock mare who is a half to a G1 winner and a G3 winner, he is also from the extended dam line of Centaine so should suit Waikato Stud mares perfectly (ones with Centaine in the pedigree to linebreed to a damline as well as Savabeel/Pins/O'Reilly/Ocean Park mares as they are an outcross for them)

Commercially all this is very appealing and he looks to be an exciting prospect for Waikato Stud and breeders especially commercially with that G1 under his belt now.

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22 hours ago, Insider said:

Bloodlines/Breeding versus Performance? Which one are you backing  Dopey? 

Personally I prefer the bloodlines of Tirvarci. 

I guess only time will tell although I would love to see MK make it big time from a staying perspective irrespective of Holy Roman Emperor. 

Given my Oreilly mare I'm backing Tivaci but as always not at any price 

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Interesting to see Tivaci's peak Timeform rating is his current 120.

Becomes more interesting when you look at the peak Timeform rating of other stallions. 

I disagree that a 2400m horse is not as commercial as a Sprinter. The Aussies come to buy our 1600m to 2400m+ horses. They don't come here to purchase our Sprinters!

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20 hours ago, Nasrullah said:

Interesting to see Tivaci's peak Timeform rating is his current 120.

Becomes more interesting when you look at the peak Timeform rating of other stallions. 

I disagree that a 2400m horse is not as commercial as a Sprinter. The Aussies come to buy our 1600m to 2400m+ horses. They don't come here to purchase our Sprinters!

Fair point but many stallions that are successful here at producing stayers were not 2400m horses, 

Zabeel was a Guineas winner, Tavistock a 1400m horse, Savabeel Cox Plate winner. O'Reilly a sprinter, Ifffaaj a sprinter , Darci Brahma sprinter/miler etc, so obviously when crossed with NZ broodmares can produce a stayer.

Im not knocking Mongolian Khan here more making a point, but in recent times what stallions in NZ have been successful that have no Group form/placings under 2000m? , there's bound to be some but an interesting question ?

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Fair point about those stallions Bruce but I just wanted to touch on upon a generalization.

The New Zealand broodmare band is much broader in distance than it likely had say 30 years ago.

Look at what speed sprinter/ miler sires has been brought in to NZ over the last 30 years and the effect it has had on the broodmare band.

My point is that around 30 years ago we had around 5 to 8 NZ based stallions in top 20 of the Australian sires Premiership. Now we have none! Has the move to sped shot NZ in the foot?

Australia now purchases about $50m dollars a year on stayers from Europe. That never happened 30 years ago.

We will never beat the Aussies at the juvenile and Sprint level but at the 2000m to 2400m we do very well.

And if you check the female lines of Jon Snow and Gingernuts you see that they are mainly dominant classic families.

Jon Snow from the Soliloquy family. Plenty of classic performers from the family, recently Oaks winner Savaria. Solveig won the NZ Oaks

Gingernuts out of a Generous mare that goes back to Eulogy our NZ Hall of Fame mare.

However nothing wrong with injecting turn of foot when a female family may need it!

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