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rdytdy

Future Stallion For Waikato Stud

45 posts in this topic

I completely agree with your points , but commercially there is a reason why Mongolian Khan is priced where he is and that is because he was a 12f horse and doesn't have a fashionable pedigree.

It will be interesting watching him as a stallion as he had no Group placings under 2000m which is very unique in that regard.

The breeding game has changed since 30 years ago , shuttle stallions have changed the dynamics and the gene pool is widespread (think all of the Australian top 10 sires this season currently are sons or grandsons of overseas shuttle stallions), but to be successful  these days stallions need to produce horses with a turn of foot no matter what distance they are racing over.

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2 hours ago, BruceL said:

Tivaci $20,000 + GST, a little steep in the NZ market for a horse with his record IMO, think he's a very good chance but they haven't missed him.

Agree. $15k tops him out. $20k reflects either price paid for final shares Or WS premium. 

What do people think $20k values him at? 

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6 hours ago, jeepers said:

$20000 ridiculous. Could be another Cape Blanco.

Rubbish....a fair price because when you see him on type you will understand. A serious chance. Cape Blanco is by a crap sire of sires

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Rubbish Berri. Cape Blanco was an imposing type and had a race record second to none(how many Gp1's?) In Tavistocks early days when I suggested a mare go to him ,I was advised by the stud that they were selling their weanlings as he may be no good and it was suggested I go to Cape Blanco as he was the real deal.

Breeding is so fickle that any first season sire is a risk and should be priced accordingly until they are proven. You and I know studs need to protect their shareholders in the first three years,hence the higher than reasonable service fees.

Did you really know CB's sire was crap in those early years? Are you such an expert with your predictions?

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I wouldn't be to harsh on what Waikato Stud stand the stallions at , while I think Tivaci should be more a 15k stallion with his record, the others all deserved to start at around the 30k mark, the likes of Savabeel (Cox Plate winner), Ocean Park (5x G1 winner including a Cox Plate), Sacred Falls (Guineas winner, dual Doncaster winner and WFA G1 winner) are all top class racehorses with pedigree.

 

 

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They have a big broodmare band to support the stallion so have the attitude of you can breed to him if you wish - otherwise look elsewhere. Must be a good looking horse to attract 250,000 as a yearling. Question I pose if he didn't win the Group 1 would he be a $7,500 - $10,000 stallion? Guess it's all irrelevant as he is now a G1 winner - How do people rate the quality of the G1 he won. Will be interesting how timeform rated it....Does make Contributor look attractive at his price.

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On 4/26/2017 at 9:39 PM, jeepers said:

Rubbish Berri. Cape Blanco was an imposing type and had a race record second to none(how many Gp1's?) In Tavistocks early days when I suggested a mare go to him ,I was advised by the stud that they were selling their weanlings as he may be no good and it was suggested I go to Cape Blanco as he was the real deal.

Breeding is so fickle that any first season sire is a risk and should be priced accordingly until they are proven. You and I know studs need to protect their shareholders in the first three years,hence the higher than reasonable service fees.

Did you really know CB's sire was crap in those early years? Are you such an expert with your predictions?

On type Cape Blanco wasn't a stallion, just a good looking horse who had his various issues in training. You don't need to be Einstein to work out that Galileo was in trouble as a sire of sires after 30 odd group one winners worth of colts not making it at stud. Teofilo is the exception and he was a cracking type. Most of the Galileo sires are producing 3 milers with weak forearms , long cannons with the knee half way up the leg. They look weak. Suits UK racing beautifully. Frankel and The Gurkha are chances although Frankel has a lot to prove after covering 58 group winning mares ( 31 group one winners from memory) and the rest being group horses or producers of the same. 

On CB's race record...second to none....bollocks.....a good performer without being exceptional. You just need to go through what he beat to understand that.

As for your comments re Tavistock, those of us who looked at everything doubled up as much as we could. May have been a fluke but it worked for us.

When those weaklings were being sold for buttons, I was reporting on this site that I thought Tavistock was going to make it. We had identified 7 group horses in his first crop from the data we were gathering. It's all on public record.

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And in relation to Contributor versus Tivaci....one is a very good 1600-2000m horse with a cracking body, absolutely smashing outlook but with just OK front legs. The other is a high class sprinter with a wicked turn of foot. In fact both had good turns of foot....something I love in a stallion. Tivaci though is extremely well conformed, outstanding looks and very good pins. 

He is what we need in this country and his fee is reasonable without being a gift.

Contributor is still a good chance though

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Turn Me Loose standing at Windsor Park at $15,000

 

Sorry this was supposed to be in Breeding Fees folder

Edited by BruceL
Sorry posted message in wrong folder,

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On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 3:19 PM, BruceL said:

I heard the whispers were early on for Waikato Stud (may not be true though with the recent announcements), Owners are very keen for the horse to be sold to an Australian stud

He's going to Waikato Stud, and will stand at $15,000.

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