.... 226 Report post Posted April 21, 2017 I completely agree with your points , but commercially there is a reason why Mongolian Khan is priced where he is and that is because he was a 12f horse and doesn't have a fashionable pedigree. It will be interesting watching him as a stallion as he had no Group placings under 2000m which is very unique in that regard. The breeding game has changed since 30 years ago , shuttle stallions have changed the dynamics and the gene pool is widespread (think all of the Australian top 10 sires this season currently are sons or grandsons of overseas shuttle stallions), but to be successful these days stallions need to produce horses with a turn of foot no matter what distance they are racing over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted April 25, 2017 Tivaci $20,000 + GST, a little steep in the NZ market for a horse with his record IMO, think he's a very good chance but they haven't missed him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 2 hours ago, BruceL said: Tivaci $20,000 + GST, a little steep in the NZ market for a horse with his record IMO, think he's a very good chance but they haven't missed him. Agree. $15k tops him out. $20k reflects either price paid for final shares Or WS premium. What do people think $20k values him at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeepers 276 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 $20000 ridiculous. Could be another Cape Blanco. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby 160 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 Yep too high Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 typical WS service fee, was a pleasure to beat the Savabeel and O'Reilly's yesterday with a horse from a $3000 service fee and a mare that cost $400 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southland 91 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 Grand Rio? Swynford 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 6 hours ago, jeepers said: $20000 ridiculous. Could be another Cape Blanco. Rubbish....a fair price because when you see him on type you will understand. A serious chance. Cape Blanco is by a crap sire of sires Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Swynford said: typical WS service fee, was a pleasure to beat the Savabeel and O'Reilly's yesterday with a horse from a $3000 service fee and a mare that cost $400 A group one winner? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeepers 276 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 Rubbish Berri. Cape Blanco was an imposing type and had a race record second to none(how many Gp1's?) In Tavistocks early days when I suggested a mare go to him ,I was advised by the stud that they were selling their weanlings as he may be no good and it was suggested I go to Cape Blanco as he was the real deal. Breeding is so fickle that any first season sire is a risk and should be priced accordingly until they are proven. You and I know studs need to protect their shareholders in the first three years,hence the higher than reasonable service fees. Did you really know CB's sire was crap in those early years? Are you such an expert with your predictions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 I wouldn't be to harsh on what Waikato Stud stand the stallions at , while I think Tivaci should be more a 15k stallion with his record, the others all deserved to start at around the 30k mark, the likes of Savabeel (Cox Plate winner), Ocean Park (5x G1 winner including a Cox Plate), Sacred Falls (Guineas winner, dual Doncaster winner and WFA G1 winner) are all top class racehorses with pedigree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treat 63 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 Is he worth $5k more then Contributer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyc 23 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 Another overpriced WS stallion? Did not think his sire line would suit them, except Savabeel x High Chap, or are they branching out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optical 41 Report post Posted April 26, 2017 They have a big broodmare band to support the stallion so have the attitude of you can breed to him if you wish - otherwise look elsewhere. Must be a good looking horse to attract 250,000 as a yearling. Question I pose if he didn't win the Group 1 would he be a $7,500 - $10,000 stallion? Guess it's all irrelevant as he is now a G1 winner - How do people rate the quality of the G1 he won. Will be interesting how timeform rated it....Does make Contributor look attractive at his price. Breeder 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,874 Report post Posted April 27, 2017 Contributor is much better value except for what the Waikato brand offers over Mapperley. It's called brand strength. Who knows which will be the better stallion! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted April 27, 2017 On 4/26/2017 at 9:39 PM, jeepers said: Rubbish Berri. Cape Blanco was an imposing type and had a race record second to none(how many Gp1's?) In Tavistocks early days when I suggested a mare go to him ,I was advised by the stud that they were selling their weanlings as he may be no good and it was suggested I go to Cape Blanco as he was the real deal. Breeding is so fickle that any first season sire is a risk and should be priced accordingly until they are proven. You and I know studs need to protect their shareholders in the first three years,hence the higher than reasonable service fees. Did you really know CB's sire was crap in those early years? Are you such an expert with your predictions? On type Cape Blanco wasn't a stallion, just a good looking horse who had his various issues in training. You don't need to be Einstein to work out that Galileo was in trouble as a sire of sires after 30 odd group one winners worth of colts not making it at stud. Teofilo is the exception and he was a cracking type. Most of the Galileo sires are producing 3 milers with weak forearms , long cannons with the knee half way up the leg. They look weak. Suits UK racing beautifully. Frankel and The Gurkha are chances although Frankel has a lot to prove after covering 58 group winning mares ( 31 group one winners from memory) and the rest being group horses or producers of the same. On CB's race record...second to none....bollocks.....a good performer without being exceptional. You just need to go through what he beat to understand that. As for your comments re Tavistock, those of us who looked at everything doubled up as much as we could. May have been a fluke but it worked for us. When those weaklings were being sold for buttons, I was reporting on this site that I thought Tavistock was going to make it. We had identified 7 group horses in his first crop from the data we were gathering. It's all on public record. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted April 27, 2017 And in relation to Contributor versus Tivaci....one is a very good 1600-2000m horse with a cracking body, absolutely smashing outlook but with just OK front legs. The other is a high class sprinter with a wicked turn of foot. In fact both had good turns of foot....something I love in a stallion. Tivaci though is extremely well conformed, outstanding looks and very good pins. He is what we need in this country and his fee is reasonable without being a gift. Contributor is still a good chance though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) Turn Me Loose standing at Windsor Park at $15,000 Sorry this was supposed to be in Breeding Fees folder Edited April 27, 2017 by BruceL Sorry posted message in wrong folder, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosielovesGGs 1 Report post Posted April 28, 2017 On 10/03/2017 at 3:19 PM, BruceL said: I heard the whispers were early on for Waikato Stud (may not be true though with the recent announcements), Owners are very keen for the horse to be sold to an Australian stud He's going to Waikato Stud, and will stand at $15,000. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted April 28, 2017 1 hour ago, RosielovesGGs said: He's going to Waikato Stud, and will stand at $15,000. Windsor Park Stud you mean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...