Midget 4,489 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 Here's my spin on this, and I welcome the thoughts of others. Time has moved on, meanwhile many racing clubs have remained stagnant and they no longer have relevance from a location perspective. As a code we have hundreds of millions in assets sitting idle, doing nothing, while we're lethargically mired deep in the mid 1900's as an industry. If these clubs really cared and really wanted to progress this industry and evolve into a modern globally relevant sport they should cash up their existing real estate, and relocate to somewhere reasonably close by, and build a multi function facility with superb media, a magnificent Strathayr quality track, but have only small but appropriate grandstands. My top five ( in order ) ; Te Rapa Awapuni Trentham Counties Riccarton Once this morphing exercise is completed these clubs get the first choice for all carnival racing, and only these clubs can conduct G1 races. bazach and Phantom 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Midget said: Here's my spin on this, and I welcome the thoughts of others. Time has moved on, meanwhile many racing clubs have remained stagnant and they no longer have relevance from a location perspective. As a code we have hundreds of millions in assets sitting idle, doing nothing, while we're lethargically mired deep in the mid 1900's as an industry. If these clubs genuinely cared and really wanted to progress this industry and evolve into a modern globally relevant sport they should cash up their existing real estate, and relocate to somewhere reasonably close by, and build a multi function facility with superb media, a magnificent Strathayr quality track, but have only small but appropriate grandstands. My top five ( in order ) ; Te Rapa Awapuni Trentham Counties Riccarton Once this morphing exercise is completed these clubs get the first choice for all carnival racing, and only these clubs can conduct G1 races. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Midget said: Here's my spin on this, and I welcome the thoughts of others. Time has moved on, meanwhile many racing clubs have remained stagnant and they no longer have relevance from a location perspective. As a code we have hundreds of millions in assets sitting idle, doing nothing, while we're lethargically mired deep in the mid 1900's as an industry. If these clubs really cared and really wanted to progress this industry and evolve into a modern globally relevant sport they should cash up their existing real estate, and relocate to somewhere reasonably close by, and build a multi function facility with superb media, a magnificent Strathayr quality track, but have only small but appropriate grandstands. My top five ( in order ) ; Te Rapa Awapuni Trentham Counties Riccarton Once this morphing exercise is completed these clubs get the first choice for all carnival racing, and only these clubs can conduct G1 races. Can see problems finding alternative locations for some of these Midget. Trentham for one. Riccarton has a pretty good set up, track aside. Addington could go and the two could amalgamate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmy Panther 2 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 how are the clubs going to fund the purchase of the land that is reasonably close by - they will be buying in the same market they are selling, and have to spend 15m -20m on a new track and another 5m at least on grandstand facilities. or do you mean sell up and effectively amalgamate with an existing track that is nearby i.e te rapa to matamata, counties to auckland/matamata, if so Id put avondale and trentham at the top of my list Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 what would it cost in 'tip fees' to demolish the concrete Trentham grandstands? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, Palmy Panther said: how are the clubs going to fund the purchase of the land that is reasonably close by - they will be buying in the same market they are selling, and have to spend 15m -20m on a new track and another 5m at least on grandstand facilities. or do you mean sell up and effectively amalgamate with an existing track that is nearby i.e te rapa to matamata, counties to auckland/matamata, if so Id put avondale and trentham at the top of my list Clearly the ones he is talking about are all now within the city areas()bar Trentham perhaps 'close by' would mean a suitable free draining piece of land within a reasonable distance but in the rural zone. Riccarton for instance would have plenty of options within 10 miles to the west. If you got $250m for Awapuni then went somewhere out towards the beach you should be able to find a very nice piece of property ideal for what you require Don't moan about distance for the punters to travel because as it stands they have tracks right there and nobody goes to them 90% of the time bazach and Insider 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 I don't know why Te Rapa can't be sold and the money from that used to build a racetrack at Cambridge on the current training track. Make it state of the art racing and training facility in the area where the most horses are trained. Tauhei Notts, puha and bus stop 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 Yes Tom is on to my train of thought. Te Rapa has to relocate to the horse population so the Cambridge side of town obviously. Awapuni would naturally head to a free draining area, probably just west of Longburn, but they wouldn't need to go right out to the black sand of Foxton because we're talking Strathayr so you get the good drainage with that. Riccarton could go West Melton or Rolleston way, probably the latter because they've got a new motorway haven't they ? Counties would head toward the black sand on the west coast side, somewhere between Port Waikato and Muriwhai. Trentham would be better placed out by Paraparaumu or Waikanei ( spelling ?) Anyway here's how the deal works, and Peninsula and Manakau golf clubs here in Auckland have just done exactly this with Fletcher's. Fletchers pays Trentham 80 million for their track, as part payment Fletcher's builds and delivers a brand new track with facilities at say total cost of 50 million, and gives the WRC a cheque for the difference, that being 30 million. Fletchers then develops the old Trentham acres into say 1000 sections and sells them at 300k each and earns say 300,000,000, that's good business for everyone. I'm just making these figures up by the way but let's guess at Te Rapa's value, more like 150 million ? Take it away possums, do the maths, the model works, the world's your racing oyster. Belinda 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 I have heard these rumours too re Te Rapa racecourse selling up and building the perfect facility elsewhere. A great racing track, An all weather track adjacent or inside the main track. And a stand built to hold the crowd you would expect on your third busiest day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 What about this I imagine Te Rapa is about 40-50 hectares. Take 10 hectares and split it into 250 sections(@ 500m per section and allowing for roading and utilities). Sell them for a net $150,000 per section profit(I am not au fait with the Hamilton area so whether the locale is popular enough to do that?) Gives them $37,500,000. Split the rest up for either commercial or industrial (or both) developments. Sell off half of the rest to get say another $20m then do development(ie Building) to secure themselves a rental income stream for ever and ever(increasing as well as rent reviews come around). Maybe a $150m investment to secure a $20m per annum net income stream. Less the say $10m debt servicing cost that leaves $10m to pay the loans on the track development and to pour into the industry. In ten years time the net yearly income is $25m and climbing and the stakes have skyrocketed It is the Alexandra Park model only not quite as good because obviously it is not in the heart of Auckland There would be borrowing involved but the rental income streams would cover it then go find that location and do the racetrack business. More important to get the track dead right initially and do the amenities as practicable soon after Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 I think Te Rapa is nearer to 200 acres. I think. But Te Rapa and Alexander Park are very different not only in the city but also the area they are in. Te Rapa is a lot more industrial than the Park. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 That's the job of the NZRB, to facilitate and offer bridging finance for these type of deals, or to guarantee the bank loans required, and it all makes sense, but you'll never get a racing club, let alone the delusional NZRB to "do the right thing" and make this happen. They're too busy on yet another junket overseas to chat to John Messara, and of course they're accountable to no one because we're all piss weak. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane T 44 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Midget said: Yes Tom is on to my train of thought. Te Rapa has to relocate to the horse population so the Cambridge side of town obviously. Awapuni would naturally head to a free draining area, probably just west of Longburn, but they wouldn't need to go right out to the black sand of Foxton because we're talking Strathayr so you get the good drainage with that. Riccarton could go West Melton or Rolleston way, probably the latter because they've got a new motorway haven't they ? Counties would head toward the black sand on the west coast side, somewhere between Port Waikato and Muriwhai. Trentham would be better placed out by Paraparaumu or Waikanei ( spelling ?) Anyway here's how the deal works, and Peninsula and Manakau golf clubs here in Auckland have just done exactly this with Fletcher's. Fletchers pays Trentham 80 million for their track, as part payment Fletcher's builds and delivers a brand new track with facilities at say total cost of 50 million, and gives the WRC a cheque for the difference, that being 30 million. Fletchers then develops the old Trentham acres into say 1000 sections and sells them at 300k each and earns say 300,000,000, that's good business for everyone. I'm just making these figures up by the way but let's guess at Te Rapa's value, more like 150 million ? Take it away possums, do the maths, the model works, the world's your racing oyster. Totally agree with Trentham. A local developer is already sub dividing up to 800 sections north and adjacent to the racecourse at the moment on the old Wallaceville Animal Research land. This includes land that the racecourse has sold to them which included the block where Brent Hrstich used to train and all land on the east side of the course from the 1400m mark going north, and includes both sides of the straight where they run the 1200m and 1000m races. The first stage has been pre sold off the plans and a waiting list has been drawn up for the remaining lots. Upper Hutt is screaming out for sections. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Why the hell didn't the Club do a partnership deal to maximise returns instead of just selling the land for someone else to cream it ? Kane T and shaneMcAlister 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patiti 274 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 I understand that the strategic priority of the Racing Board of optimizing the calendar covers all this type consideration for all codes. Consultation not likely to commence in earnest for some time. Perhaps JA could update people on his conversation tour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Moving outwards has been the standard formula for racing around the world for donks. Many trainers haven't made much from training but plenty from land deals. Right now in Auckland there are swarms of government and council spotters combing all parts of Auckland for suitable building sites. They realize if the building industry recedes there will be economic disaster. So any rezoning changes e.g. for Avondale will not be a problem. The way new schools are built sometimes with land sitting dormant for decades could be an interesting formula in order to gain government concessions after all the government may actually want plots such as Avondale turned into housing. A racetrack is needed within the Helensville/Orewa/North Shore triangle with so many lifestyle blocks in the vicinity. Any new track anywhere has to take into account the feasibilty of trainers buying adjacent land Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane T 44 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: Why the hell didn't the Club do a partnership deal to maximise returns instead of just selling the land for someone else to cream it ? I totally agree. Sections are north of $300,000 and either side of the straight and along the edge of the course from the 1400m mark to where the 1200m race joins onto the straight will be prime land. Why they couldn't of even done it themselves is way beyond me.I will try and post a copy of Stage 1 sections which show the piece of land from the 1200m start and the sections available on the west side of it. They have all sold and title is not even through yet so it just shows how prime these sections are and what the land the racecourse sold is really worth. They missed out on a windfall by not developing it themselves. Surely having the local mayor, Wayne Guppy as president would have given them someone to help the process through council and with his contacts got this over the line. Sounds easy, and I assure you it would have been. Someone mentioned earlier where would you dump the concrete grandstands. Well Ill tell you the old concrete grandstand was buried onsite, in front of Brent Hrstich's yard and where his outside yards were built. The job was done by Dixon and Dunlop. Yes, Ron Dixon who was on the committee of the Wellington Racing Club at the time surprisingly won the tender for the demolition of the grandstand, and the burial of the grandstand was one of the best cover up stories of all time. How it got past council, if it ever did is beyond me and how much did Ron Dixon save on tip fees would be into the tens of thousands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane T 44 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 I have attached the subdivision plans for Stage 1. Take note this is mainly Wallaceville Animal Research Land and the only Racecourse land is Lots 63-70 which starts on the west side of the shute at the 1200 metre mark. The part that is crossed out is the other side of the top straight which is Lot 200 that the racecourse sold which includes Brent Hrstich's stables, the stables next to it , the rubbish dump that the course used and all the land in between.. The top straight where the 1200 and 1000 m start is is Lot 300 so as you can see they have sold everything either side of it and everything in between. I am only guessing, but to me the land sold would be approx around the 100 acre mark. A lot of sections to give away.Hopefully I have downloaded ok. Racecourse.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Maybe Insider can give us more info on why they couldn't have done this themselves or in partnership. And what they got for the land..... Looks like a lot of houses around that shute start, no doubt why they went so quickly.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Midget said: Yes Tom is on to my train of thought. Te Rapa has to relocate to the horse population so the Cambridge side of town obviously. Awapuni would naturally head to a free draining area, probably just west of Longburn, but they wouldn't need to go right out to the black sand of Foxton because we're talking Strathayr so you get the good drainage with that. Riccarton could go West Melton or Rolleston way, probably the latter because they've got a new motorway haven't they ? Counties would head toward the black sand on the west coast side, somewhere between Port Waikato and Muriwhai. Trentham would be better placed out by Paraparaumu or Waikanei ( spelling ?) Anyway here's how the deal works, and Peninsula and Manakau golf clubs here in Auckland have just done exactly this with Fletcher's. Fletchers pays Trentham 80 million for their track, as part payment Fletcher's builds and delivers a brand new track with facilities at say total cost of 50 million, and gives the WRC a cheque for the difference, that being 30 million. Fletchers then develops the old Trentham acres into say 1000 sections and sells them at 300k each and earns say 300,000,000, that's good business for everyone. I'm just making these figures up by the way but let's guess at Te Rapa's value, more like 150 million ? Take it away possums, do the maths, the model works, the world's your racing oyster. You did say "reasonably close by" ? Not sure Pram or Waikanae qualify there but get your drift. The new expressway opened last week will certainly make getting out that way a hell of a lot quicker. You already have Otaki, Levin and Foxton in that area, all pretty good tracks so would seem sensible to take the best and develop it rather than start again. Needs agreement..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck"s 40 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Settle down,settle down boys....Fantastic fiscal thinking.... I think it will work but Gregs going,going , gone... so we wont have someone of his foresight and vision to bring this to fruition....but wait , bring him back on say $1,033,500 ( same as that other guy from the super fund ) plus all the other usual perks and we will be up and running by ..... 2047.... Stakes for a mid week maiden will be up to $15k by then ... Its a win,win for all and Greg wont be unemployed anymore !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 If Mr Purcell did nt cut the mustard are those that employed him ultimately responsible? Phantom 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazach 133 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 These have been my thoughts for decades. Really good to see this great post by Midget. Racing can't continue as it is with the number of tracks we have, most of which are devoid of people most of the time (except Christmas etc). Our total population is less than Melbourne, and a lot less than Sydney. Also good to see mention that we don't need concrete edifices anymore! Go to tracks like Caloundra on the Sunshine Coast and see their facilities. There is still time to save this industry! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Spyro 408 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 6 hours ago, slam dunk said: Moving outwards has been the standard formula for racing around the world for donks. Many trainers haven't made much from training but plenty from land deals. Right now in Auckland there are swarms of government and council spotters combing all parts of Auckland for suitable building sites. They realize if the building industry recedes there will be economic disaster. So any rezoning changes e.g. for Avondale will not be a problem. The way new schools are built sometimes with land sitting dormant for decades could be an interesting formula in order to gain government concessions after all the government may actually want plots such as Avondale turned into housing. A racetrack is needed within the Helensville/Orewa/North Shore triangle with so many lifestyle blocks in the vicinity. Any new track anywhere has to take into account the feasibilty of trainers buying adjacent land I think they would have a real fight on their hands if they tried to rezone Avondale. Not only from all the sporting clubs that use the land but the market users etc. At the moment it is designated Green Belt which has highest level of protection. Just looking at Council's Unitary Plan and it stresses the importance of maintaining those Green Belt designated areas, so it would take a 360 degree turn in their thinking to even contemplate it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boned 32 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Almost every club in NZ should sell up but not relocate. Two needed in Auckland, one of them must be a flash one that is world class. One in the Waikato and one near Wellington and Christchurch. All the others should be shut down and have a date with a bulldozer. The flash Auckland track is the only track that has groups ones. Phantom 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...