RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
chevy86

Amazing how the highest bid is only one bid short of the reserve!

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Getting a bit sick of all the bullshit bids that seem to suggest there is a real auction taking place. I guess they may occasionally suck a late-comer in and pass the reserve but pretty dishonest to run a false market to try and put a false value on the horse.

Watched the last hour today and more than ever Karaka has become the Te Akau Show. Don't get me wrong, they do a great job at buying and promoting and the Industry would be poorer for their absence, but spare me the Rodley sycophancy and KFE interviewing her husband as he salivates over "what a clever boy he has been yet again". Are there no other worthy interviewees at the Sales rather than the Te Akau  promotion vehicle.. 

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Thats why its called an auction the seller has the right to try to get his horse to his reserve and the auction house just counts the bids and tries to help get the deal done....No false values but the seller has a right to put a value on HIS horse and if it is higher than market value the buyers will not buy it.

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41 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

Getting a bit sick of all the bullshit bids that seem to suggest there is a real auction taking place. I guess they may occasionally suck a late-comer in and pass the reserve but pretty dishonest to run a false market to try and put a false value on the horse.

Watched the last hour today and more than ever Karaka has become the Te Akau Show. Don't get me wrong, they do a great job at buying and promoting and the Industry would be poorer for their absence, but spare me the Rodley sycophancy and KFE interviewing her husband as he salivates over "what a clever boy he has been yet again". Are there no other worthy interviewees at the Sales rather than the Te Akau  promotion vehicle.. 

Some in here really are naysayers, I don't have any links to Te Akau but they are the leading buyer yet again, he is the largest syndicator in NZ and pays for all of them within very short time after the sales... why should he not get some air time...they are the SINGLE biggest supporter of the NZ industry...for the past 11 years running, stop letting the personal shyte get in the way of the big picture, take him out of the equation there is a lot less nice horses running around for shit money... its like the attacks Gai gets in OZ not warranted she has been very successful if you don't like her don't get involved..Te Akau the same, tall poppy syndrome IMHO.

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1 minute ago, scooby3051 said:

Some in here really are naysayers, I don't have any links to Te Akau but they are the leading buyer yet again, he is the largest syndicator in NZ and pays for all of them within very short time after the sales... why should he not get some air time...they are the SINGLE biggest supporter of the NZ industry...for the past 11 years running, stop letting the personal shyte get in the way of the big picture, take him out of the equation there is a lot less nice horses running around for shit money... its like the attacks Gai gets in OZ not warranted she has been very successful if you don't like her don't get involved..Te Akau the same, tall poppy syndrome IMHO.

I said they did a "great job" so where is the "naysayer" component? As a presentation piece though the horse auction has become secondary to the Te Akau suck-up.

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21 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

I said they did a "great job" so where is the "naysayer" component? As a presentation piece though the horse auction has become secondary to the Te Akau suck-up.

No you were sticking it into TA for getting publicity and for the horses being run up to their reserves as if it was a crime... its called an Auction...maybe you need to read up on what this actually is.

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9 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

No you were sticking it into TA for getting publicity and for the horses being run up to their reserves as if it was a crime... its called an Auction...maybe you need to read up on what this actually is.

Have you been out in the sun too long?--I have not dumped on TA--just suggesting that the Karaka Sales and their presentation takes on a wider spectrum of participants. In the strictest sense an "auction" involves "buyers" bidding to purchase an article--not the bloody existing owner and their enablers distorting the process.

Read my initial post again and try and get the correct interpretation instead of your jaundiced view.

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I have watched over last two days and they interviewed many interesting participants.As for being the Te Akau show surely as sponsor they are entitled to some bang for their buck.I doubt it would be televised without the Te Akau sponsorship.Being an owner with several different trainers including Te Akau Waller Mckee Pitman Go Racing and living in the SouthI certainly am appreciative of the coverage.

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1 hour ago, scooby3051 said:

Some in here really are naysayers, I don't have any links to Te Akau but they are the leading buyer yet again, he is the largest syndicator in NZ and pays for all of them within very short time after the sales... why should he not get some air time...they are the SINGLE biggest supporter of the NZ industry...for the past 11 years running, stop letting the personal shyte get in the way of the big picture, take him out of the equation there is a lot less nice horses running around for shit money... its like the attacks Gai gets in OZ not warranted she has been very successful if you don't like her don't get involved..Te Akau the same, tall poppy syndrome IMHO.

I disagree Scooby.  I think Te Akau is a sad indictment on what the New Zealand industry has become.  Essentially a one crew band where deals are done within deals.

We the hoi poloi have to suffer the marketing BS and spin that tries to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

To use a Monty Python quote - "What has Te Akau ever done for us?"

When do we ever see NZB or TA direct their considerable resources, compared to the rest of the industry, at driving through the change the industry needs?  To use their resource to tell the truth?

All we see are misguided policies that feather no one's nests but their own.

Don't forget that very few of the incestuous inflated purchases that are then syndicated to the unwary by clever marketing actual make anywhere near their purchase prices.

But "Hail David" as he and his crew dine on the fatted calves.  Long live the Philistines!

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53 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

Have you been out in the sun too long?--I have not dumped on TA--just suggesting that the Karaka Sales and their presentation takes on a wider spectrum of participants. In the strictest sense an "auction" involves "buyers" bidding to purchase an article--not the bloody existing owner and their enablers distorting the process.

Read my initial post again and try and get the correct interpretation instead of your jaundiced view.

Chevy mate, what the hell do you think goes on at Real Estate Auctions, the vast majority of bids are false bids under the reserve.

What you have to remember is that the vendor of the house/horse sets the reserve & if the sale gets there then they are obviously happy as thats the min price they were prepared to accept. If the demand for the House/Horse pushes the price above that reserve and then some then great, however if the reserve is not meet then the seller has failed to meet the market.

The process doesn't matter in how it is arrived at, both a vendor and purchaser have to be happy for a deal to have happened.

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1 hour ago, scooby3051 said:

No you were sticking it into TA for getting publicity and for the horses being run up to their reserves as if it was a crime... its called an Auction...maybe you need to read up on what this actually is.

I think scooby its more of a case of the old Kiwi knocking machine in action, kicking a very successful man and his business.

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2 minutes ago, barryb said:

Chevy mate, what the hell do you think goes on at Real Estate Auctions, the vast majority of bids are false bids under the reserve.

What you have to remember is that the vendor of the house/horse sets the reserve & if the sale gets there then they are obviously happy as thats the min price they were prepared to accept. If the demand for the House/Horse pushes the price above that reserve and then some then great, however if the reserve is not meet then the seller has failed to meet the market.

The process doesn't matter in how it is arrived at, both a vendor and purchaser have to be happy for a deal to have happened.

Bazza bro, you are correct in your assertion about the dodgy auction process that pervades horse/house auctions but that does not make the practice acceptable. It is a bloody charade which wastes time and fosters delusional vendors .

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Viewed some of the coverage of the Premier Sale yesterday and all day today. My only criticism is that the focus should be more on the Yearlings and less on the audience. Some lots had only a few seconds coverage in the ring while the camera shots panned to the auditorium. Some of the audience looked bored witless. Not a good look!

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22 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

If I was the buyer I would not be happy if the vendor had "tested" but not "met" the market.

why?

If you're not happy then you don't buy, simple really.

Have you been fleeced = NO. You are happy and purchased a horse for its market value.

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1 hour ago, 2Admin2 said:

I disagree Scooby.  I think Te Akau is a sad indictment on what the New Zealand industry has become.  Essentially a one crew band where deals are done within deals.

We the hoi poloi have to suffer the marketing BS and spin that tries to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

To use a Monty Python quote - "What has Te Akau ever done for us?"

When do we ever see NZB or TA direct their considerable resources, compared to the rest of the industry, at driving through the change the industry needs?  To use their resource to tell the truth?

All we see are misguided policies that feather no one's nests but their own.

Don't forget that very few of the incestuous inflated purchases that are then syndicated to the unwary by clever marketing actual make anywhere near their purchase prices.

But "Hail David" as he and his crew dine on the fatted calves.  Long live the Philistines!

Well you really disappoint me... they spend millions in the industry... and yes they get some promotion for that...hell I think they even sponsored the coverage but hey don't worry about that. He brings people into racing spends up big every year at the sales... so what is wrong with him getting publicity for that... how many others are putting their hand up with buying, supporting a stable, paying salaries in two countries... please show me who else does this... if you don't like him personally thats your choice... but the guy puts a lot into the industry which would be a sad loss if he stopped. Stop making it personal all the time when it comes to TA either you don't like their horses getting "hyped" up now you don't like DE getting publicity for being the leading buyer at the biggest sale in the country... geez....harsh.

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I disagree also. Dodgy bids shouldn't be allowed. Nor should deals within deals. Nor should a whole lot of kickbacks to studs/preparers/managers/buyers. Sport of Kings it may be but a lot of owners are getting horribly treated. And racing a horse in at all (especially in NZ) does that for them. It shouldn't happen before they even buy one.

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Just now, Sickopunter said:

I disagree also. Dodgy bids shouldn't be allowed. Nor should deals within deals. Nor should a whole lot of kickbacks to studs/preparers. Sport of Kings it may be but a lot of owners are getting horribly treated. And racing a horse in at all (especially in NZ) does that for them. It shouldn't happen before they even buy one.

That is the old days... prove one case of it these days... and why should an owner not be able to place a reserve on his horse and try to get it to that reserve... what happens at a house auction???? Its the same thing... get you head out of the sand.

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49 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

Well you really disappoint me... they spend millions in the industry... and yes they get some promotion for that...hell I think they even sponsored the coverage but hey don't worry about that. He brings people into racing spends up big every year at the sales... so what is wrong with him getting publicity for that... how many others are putting their hand up with buying, supporting a stable, paying salaries in two countries... please show me who else does this... if you don't like him personally thats your choice... but the guy puts a lot into the industry which would be a sad loss if he stopped. Stop making it personal all the time when it comes to TA either you don't like their horses getting "hyped" up now you don't like DE getting publicity for being the leading buyer at the biggest sale in the country... geez....harsh.

Yes he may spend up big. Yes he may bring people into racing but there are alot of people turned off racing once they have been in one of their syndicates. 

 

 

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Just now, army said:

Yes he may spend up big. Yes he may bring people into racing but there are alot of people turned off racing once they have been in one of their syndicates. 

 

 

It happens everywhere, but there must be a hell of a lot that go back in or many more wanting to go back in... otherwise he would not have the business he does.... so how do you suggest he keeps spending up so big if Sooooooooo many get turned off... I think you may be stretching the truth..... do have facts to back it up???

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4 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

That is the old days... prove one case of it these days... and why should an owner not be able to place a reserve on his horse and try to get it to that reserve... what happens at a house auction???? Its the same thing... get you head out of the sand.

You can say I have my head in the sand, I can say you do. Gets neither of us anywhere. I'm not the watchdog for the NZRB or the sales. But there ought to be one. Or am I mistaken and there is one?

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4 minutes ago, army said:

Yes he may spend up big. Yes he may bring people into racing but there are alot of people turned off racing once they have been in one of their syndicates. 

 

 

I know people that have been in his syndicates over and over for years..... they love it.

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Just now, Sickopunter said:

You can say I have my head in the sand, I can say you do. Gets neither of us anywhere. I'm not the watchdog for the NZRB or the sales. But there ought to be one. Or am I mistaken and there is one?

I agree in the old days it did happen but there is too much info out there nowadays and I think it is not allowed now and there is a watchdog group I think.

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1 minute ago, scooby3051 said:

It happens everywhere, but there must be a hell of a lot that go back in or many more wanting to go back in... otherwise he would not have the business he does.... so how do you suggest he keeps spending up so big if Sooooooooo many get turned off... I think you may be stretching the truth..... do have facts to back it up???

I agree he does get more. I know what happened to my Aunty (89yrs old)  and her  100000 she invested with them.  She wasnt new to racing and for years her and her husband had horse with Rodgerson but once hubby died after a while she moved down this way and thought she would get horse down her. Not one horse she invested in raced and she was informed they were sent overseas and that was the last she heard of them. Bye bye money

 

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