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authorized syndication - your evaluation or experience(s)

46 posts in this topic

would like to know how others appraise? i.e. horse/pedigree or 'brand' (of syndicator) or social/entertainment factors or level of investment

what are your positive experiences? what are your 'negatives' ?

was there anything you wish you had known before or think of what others need to know before signing up

for the record - im not associated with any syndication/syndicator - a 1 horse-pony here ;)

Cheers, thx in advance.

 

 

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Good question - I race a few horses with friends in conjunction with a breeding operation but did have a 25% share in a horse with one of the main syndicates.

Positives were the excellent flow of information, the fact the horse won a few races including the Matamata Breeders, the capital appreciation of the horse and, to a lesser degree, the social and entertainment aspect

Negatives were that the monthly costs seemed to increase and more items were added to the monthly invoice in direct correlation to our success (how many covers does a horse need and how many times does a vet really need to administer some foreign sounding substance?!)

Aside from that, and on balance, I had a pretty positive experience 

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I used to be in one a few years ago. I agree with Nice Option about invoices slowly creeping up and more and more massages , farrier, and vets etc. The thing I did not like was your name is not in the book, the horse raced in the syndicators colours and he took home the trophies even though he never had a share in the horse. He made all the decisions and we had to pay him a 10% fee every month for management. Sure I knew this beforehand but I did not think it would affect me like it did. I wanted to breed from it but the manager decided it had to be sold . He sold it privately, and I am not saying anything dodgy went on, but it was certainly not as transparent as an auction would have been. Plus he took 10% of the sale price as well.Once you learn how this game works you are better off racing one yourself and getting a few mates in. It is not that hard. There are plenty of well respected bloodstock agents out there that will purchase the horse on your behalf. Good luck

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Yes, we also ended up selling ours however I was the main driver behind that decision. The syndicate manager (Te Akau) took 10% of that however I think you need to look at that with a bit of perspective. There was no fee charged on the way in when the horse was purchased as a yearling (apart from the backhander....;))  and it was due to the syndicate management that the horse ended up appreciating in value.

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In a syndicate, the ability to change trainer is a must which is dificult when a trainer retains a share in the horse,operates his own floating business and also has a property used for grazing spellers.

Don't forget if he retains 10% he recieves approx 19% of any stake money and with rider getting 5%(well deserved)90% of the shareholders are left to fight over approx 77% of the money.

 

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I've had one horse with a major syndicator.

Communication was good, good website, few perks etc. They did many things well.

I will agree the monthly invoices often were eye popping and I suspected that there were little margins on everything built in, and little areas (yeah covers being one, charges for use of racing colours etc etc) which I thought were OTT.

My major objection was the total lack of input into decision making - the only decision i was ever asked to agree to was sending the horse overseas. And even that was presented in the only phone call I ever got from the manager as "everyone else has agreed to do this etc etc etc..."

The decision to quit the horse and sell when he didn't acclimatise was poorly communicated and effectively had no input.

So for me - never again.

I struck up a relationship with a local trainer who gave me the option to get into a few horses which are raced with a group of his other local owners. We've had some success, very social and really enjoyed it.

Col

PS - in the interest of fairness I know people 3 or 4 people involved in syndications which have worked really well on many fronts... so there is a place for it.

 

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I were personally  going to go to a syndicator a few years back and looked at the options and to be honest once waying it all up cost, communication and say in the horse I looked at it as alot of associated costs for a lessor return. I am not knocking them as they have a place in the industry.

What i did do was spoke to some  trainers and discussed options I settled on Graham Richardson zero mark up on horses and zero syndication fees so what you get is training fee, Vet account , Pre training account and Transport account with no mark up .As for communication we get weekly updates with in more cases than not video of the horses and he is always able to talk and discuss about the horses .

Now that might not be everyones cup of tea but it works for me 

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8 hours ago, chelseacol said:

I've had one horse with a major syndicator.

Communication was good, good website, few perks etc. They did many things well.

I will agree the monthly invoices often were eye popping and I suspected that there were little margins on everything built in, and little areas (yeah covers being one, charges for use of racing colours etc etc) which I thought were OTT.

My major objection was the total lack of input into decision making - the only decision i was ever asked to agree to was sending the horse overseas. And even that was presented in the only phone call I ever got from the manager as "everyone else has agreed to do this etc etc etc..."

The decision to quit the horse and sell when he didn't acclimatise was poorly communicated and effectively had no input.

So for me - never again.

I struck up a relationship with a local trainer who gave me the option to get into a few horses which are raced with a group of his other local owners. We've had some success, very social and really enjoyed it.

Col

PS - in the interest of fairness I know people 3 or 4 people involved in syndications which have worked really well on many fronts... so there is a place for it.

 

A well balanced response.

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8 hours ago, Grant R said:

I were personally  going to go to a syndicator a few years back and looked at the options and to be honest once waying it all up cost, communication and say in the horse I looked at it as alot of associated costs for a lessor return. I am not knocking them as they have a place in the industry.

What i did do was spoke to some  trainers and discussed options I settled on Graham Richardson zero mark up on horses and zero syndication fees so what you get is training fee, Vet account , Pre training account and Transport account with no mark up .As for communication we get weekly updates with in more cases than not video of the horses and he is always able to talk and discuss about the horses .

Now that might not be everyones cup of tea but it works for me 

One of the best based on what I know and what you have reported.

Disclosure: I have no relationship with Graham other than to say hello and notice what I see. 

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I'm in syndicates with a taranaki trainer. Communication is excellent and you can drop out of a syndicate any time. Going with a lesser known trainer was a deliberate decision to be able to have some more input. The larger operations may have more chance of success with any given horse but Id rather be able to speak to the trainer and not feel like I should be quiet and just read the newsletter.

Advice to a newcomer would be don't worry about breeding or sale rights for now just get into a local racing syndicate where you can go help out around the stable if you want, help choose the name and have some fun at the races.

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I'd use Albert Bosma if I was in to syndicates, the Go Racing team are slick and obviously good judges of a horse.

I'd also consider Kylie Bax who's apparently getting in to syndicating, because you can't have too much of Kylie Bax in your life.

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3 hours ago, Midget said:

I'd use Albert Bosma if I was in to syndicates, the Go Racing team are slick and obviously good judges of a horse.

I'd also consider Kylie Bax who's apparently getting in to syndicating, because you can't have too much of Kylie Bax in your life.

You obviously did nt read Kylie's letter saying how disgusting it was of trainers  to be calling a meeting  just before the sales and not supporting owners and breeders at this most important time. Also luckily Glenda will be their to set the record straight and put an end to all the lies.

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55 minutes ago, puha said:

You obviously did nt read Kylie's letter saying how disgusting it was of trainers  to be calling a meeting  just before the sales and not supporting owners and breeders at this most important time. Also luckily Glenda will be their to set the record straight and put an end to all the lies.

 I wasn't thinking of getting any political advice from Kylie given that she's a self declared Trump supporter.!!

Anyway whatever was in her letter is so outrageously wrong it's hardly worth commenting on, other than to say that Sunday's meeting has been called by NZTR, the five big clubs, the breeders, jockeys and lastly the Trainers Assn.

The only sector group not involved is the punters so dear old Kylie is a bit wide of the mark with the comments you attribute to her.

As for Glenda putting an end to the lies.....mmmm........I hope no one brings footage of her opening thick tongued ramble at each of the last four AGM's, because if we're going to talk about lies, half truths, blind ignorance, rank stupidity, deceit, chicanery or fabrications of alternate facts then Glenda has an awful lot to answer for.

If Kylie is defending Glenda it's probably only because a favour has been called up, and she needs favours big time because Glenda is friendless in this instance, and under extreme pressure.

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The letter ,  Absolutely disgraceful that trainers who are meant to be supportive of their owners and breeders  call a meeting before the sales that are the most valuable and important time of the year! Hyped up by the fact that the paper's seem to think it's a crisis meeting when in fact it's a meeting for the trainers to know/learn what's happening re changes in the industry. Thank goodness Glenda Hughes who offered her time will set the record straight. But there are some shocking lies being swirled around right now that are causing trainers etc to have concern. But my question is "why just before the sales create negatively!!??" Come on trainers and NZTR ! Positive media is the ONLY type we need right now for the NZB sakes "Supportthe breeders for they breed to sell to new and current owners for those yearlings to be bought & trained locally.. so many going off shore a lit in part of the lack of confidence in the industry here. Doesn't help when a crisis meeting is held 24 hrs prior to the major sales . (Duh!!). KB 

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17 minutes ago, puha said:

The letter ,  Absolutely disgraceful that trainers who are meant to be supportive of their owners and breeders  call a meeting before the sales that are the most valuable and important time of the year! Hyped up by the fact that the paper's seem to think it's a crisis meeting when in fact it's a meeting for the trainers to know/learn what's happening re changes in the industry. Thank goodness Glenda Hughes who offered her time will set the record straight. But there are some shocking lies being swirled around right now that are causing trainers etc to have concern. But my question is "why just before the sales create negatively!!??" Come on trainers and NZTR ! Positive media is the ONLY type we need right now for the NZB sakes "Supportthe breeders for they breed to sell to new and current owners for those yearlings to be bought & trained locally.. so many going off shore a lit in part of the lack of confidence in the industry here. Doesn't help when a crisis meeting is held 24 hrs prior to the major sales . (Duh!!). KB 

A letter or a FB post?

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No you might forgive her, I don't, what a load of bollocks, spoken like a breeder with true self interest.......don't insult trainers, remember Midget, you're no longer a trainer, I bet if you were you'd be more pissed than you show......how dare she, her comments highlight her ignorance, right time, right place Kylie, grass roots is about to rise up.

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4 hours ago, Midget said:

 I wasn't thinking of getting any political advice from Kylie given that she's a self declared Trump supporter.!!

 

Midget, you are suffering "premature evaluation" re Trump. He is quickly delivering and also exhibiting surprising moderation and restraint. As for Kylie supporting Trump, that is her right, but as for things equine she has never suffered "racing deprivation" in her cosseted world and IMO her comments are those of a vacuous bimbo who gets far too much credence because of her looks and her connections.

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1 hour ago, puha said:

The letter ,  Absolutely disgraceful that trainers who are meant to be supportive of their owners and breeders  call a meeting before the sales that are the most valuable and important time of the year! Hyped up by the fact that the paper's seem to think it's a crisis meeting when in fact it's a meeting for the trainers to know/learn what's happening re changes in the industry. Thank goodness Glenda Hughes who offered her time will set the record straight. But there are some shocking lies being swirled around right now that are causing trainers etc to have concern. But my question is "why just before the sales create negatively!!??" Come on trainers and NZTR ! Positive media is the ONLY type we need right now for the NZB sakes "Supportthe breeders for they breed to sell to new and current owners for those yearlings to be bought & trained locally.. so many going off shore a lit in part of the lack of confidence in the industry here. Doesn't help when a crisis meeting is held 24 hrs prior to the major sales . (Duh!!). KB 

A flake. She's hardly likely to say anything different is she...?

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