authorized syndication - your evaluation or experience(s)

[Ohokaman 5,825]

21 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

Midget, you are suffering "premature evaluation" re Trump. He is quickly delivering and also exhibiting surprising moderation and restraint. As for Kylie supporting Trump, that is her right, but as for things equine she has never suffered "racing deprivation" in her cosseted world and IMO her comments are those of a vacuous bimbo who gets far too much credence because of her looks and her connections.

Surprising moderation...Tell that to the Press, Mexicans and the the Palestinians Chevy....

[High Sparrow 702]

On 1/26/2017 at 9:50 AM, TBL said:

would like to know how others appraise? i.e. horse/pedigree or 'brand' (of syndicator) or social/entertainment factors or level of investment

what are your positive experiences? what are your 'negatives' ?

was there anything you wish you had known before or think of what others need to know before signing up

for the record - im not associated with any syndication/syndicator - a 1 horse-pony here

Cheers, thx in advance.

 

 

I guess the answer to your question is whether you want to have some fun and can afford the (ever increasing invoices) or whether you are trying to make a buck. If the latter then stay away. Only 15% of horses ever win one race let alone any more and the costs. I've seen several of these syndicated horses passed in at say $50,000 at the sale but the syndicators must be laughing (all the way to the bank) when they sell 100 shares at $5,000 each or whatever and then charge exorbitant training fees on top of that (100 shareholders paying $20 each a  week or the like) . Do the Math. I had a mate who raced horses in syndicates - 15 horses to be exact and never got a winner. Unlucky, you might say, Yes but also a reality for many dreaming of getting the next Melbourne Cup winner Golden Slipper horse. I was speaking to a pretty wealthy businessman friend recently who raced a few horses for many years and he said each horse was costing him between $25,000 and $30,000 a year to race on his own. So I can see why syndicates appeal, my reservation would be - why would you want to make the rich boys even richer with very little prospect of a decent return?

[chevy86 2,704]

1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

Surprising moderation...Tell that to the Press, Mexicans and the the Palestinians Chevy....

He is doing what the electorate gave him the mandate to do O'Man. The Clinton flunkies (Washington Post et al) are spewing, the Mexicans need to get their own cesspool sorted, and the Palestinians took a chance in the 6-day war and got their arses kicked--now bleating that their confiscated (war-won) land should be returned because they under-estimated their military abilities.

[scooby3051 10,865]

2 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

He is doing what the electorate gave him the mandate to do O'Man. The Clinton flunkies (Washington Post et al) are spewing, the Mexicans need to get their own cesspool sorted, and the Palestinians took a chance in the 6-day war and got their arses kicked--now bleating that their confiscated (war-won) land should be returned because they under-estimated their military abilities.

Take the politics somewhere else...not here.

[chevy86 2,704]

4 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

Take the politics somewhere else...not here.

Apologies Scooby, someone mentioned Trump/Bax and I somehow got on a deflective tangent.

[Midget 4,489]

10 minutes ago, hesi said:

Don't be so shallow Molloy, if anyone else made comments like KB did in that letter you'd be climbing into them big time

You're single now, fancy your chances do you?

I thought the best part of her letter was the bit at the end in brackets, just before her initials, pretty much summed it up

She's only voiced an opinion !! and I suspect she's been misled so I'm not taking it seriously.

Not quite sure why you're all attacking her but I suppose that's your prerogative, doubt she'll care though.

As for fancying her .. I'm a bloke, I'd be worried if I didn't fancy her but that doesn't change anything, IMO she's just a good hard working bird saying her bit and I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Ohokaman 5,825]

This should help them shut the  up.....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11789355

[Huey 2,037]

1 hour ago, Midget said:

She's only voiced an opinion !! and I suspect she's been misled so I'm not taking it seriously.

Not quite sure why you're all attacking her but I suppose that's your prerogative, doubt she'll care though.

As for fancying her .. I'm a bloke, I'd be worried if I didn't fancy her but that doesn't change anything, IMO she's just a good hard working bird saying her bit and I don't have a problem with that.

 

HAHAHAHA sums you up!

[tasman man 11 979]

Back to subject of Syndication ,this increasingly popular form of ownership pops up from time to time and usually very few folk involved step up to comment.

As a result there is a negative picture painted ,and often the most convincing posters are quoting "friends of friends"....eg I had a friend who was in 15 syndicates and never had a winner .......Its absolute bullshit and a combination of envy ,jealousy and ignorance.

And if folk are going to suggest that trainers and or managers are knowingly ripping members off then they should check up ,gather their facts and then name the scumbags.

Ive been in dozens of syndicates and my overall experience has been very good. Sure its not the best when the horses are duds but many horses are and few pay their way and very few can win at Group level.

Horse ownership is an expensive hobby and one should never spend a sizeable sum unless they could comfortably put $25k in a paper bag and set it on fire ,or defame the CEO of NZTR and get taken to the cleaners or launch into a Don Ha 'experience'.

Many horses racing today are syndicate horses......and the licensed Syndicators in NZ do a good job.Its an inexpensive way to get involved and I have found the positive vibes from winning a race are similar whether one has 2% ,10% or over 30%. In a recent post Midget let his disciples know on here that I am a small share -holder who has not had a good horse for a long time. Haha ,that post was made as I was in Sydney picking up a Group3 on a horse I hold a 10% lease on ,while my last Group1 winner in galloping I owned over 30% of.Other than the joy of winning being in a syndicate enables one to meet a lot of new people some of whom become your friends ,and you meet several trainers ,jockeys and others ...at the races you stand beside the rich-listers and enjoy other benefits ,entry and a few drinks etc.

Anyway syndicates offer entry at all levels now ,some beginning at 1% , and now more and more are leased horses so theres little up front.

Cynics will say the syndicates racing leased horses are helping the stud ...true.....but leasing makes ownership affordable to everyone and if a horse is no good or injured it sometimes is easily replaced.

I joined syndicates to win the Melbourne Cup and to regularly have horses racing to justify attendance at meetings especially Group days which I had been attending since I was a kid. My best result has been a 3rd in Melbourne Cup and winner of NZ Trot Cup after having 3 x entries in the one year ! Not bad ,huh?

In gallops I currently enjoy being in Adrian Clarks Challenge.....he runs excellent syndicates ,with very good communication and if a horse doesn't perform its sacked to save costs.Its a business ,so there are costs for his services but they are transparent and the costs are set at start and capped...no surprises.Challenge has both leased and owned horses and has good success.

I have also been in good syndicates with the Moroneys and Sanders family.All well run and we have traded horses and sold at ready to run etc

In harness had a lot of success in ATC and Met syndicate both had Group 1 performers.the ATC has a brilliant record.These syndicates run meetings and generally have their horses with the top trainers.I am also in some with leased horses.Ideally the rules make it clear that a Manager makes all decisions and the AGM sets the parameters.

I have friends who swear by the Bosma syndicates ,well run and plenty of success.

The only bad experiences have been with 'friends' syndicates when 3 individuals decided to run one...two of the 3 did it free of charge as intended but the one handling the Funds took the opportunity to 'help himself' and with loose rules he got away with it.

A big disadvantage is that with a small share you can't influence the training or riding of the horse...if you want this then buy 51% or more..Some small shareholders like to have a lot of say and if you want to examine every invoice you obviously don't trust the manager and need to do your own thing.

Ive found about 10 to 20% of members can be difficult ,as with any horse people pull out and stop paying ,Ive been known to buy a deceased share. It can be worse if you are in 'friends' syndicate and friends walk which is disruptive and often the trainer or manager gets landed with these costs.

Overall Ive had a very positive experience and would recommend it as an introduction to Ownership....but not suited to everybody.

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

I think there is no better time to call a crisis meeting than the busiest time of year. 

You organise a strike when it causes the most pain. 

[biff 2,158]

Let's pretend for a moment shall we? Let's pretend we all live in a place, let's call it ''Peoples Republic Of The North and South Islands''.....now, with all this opportunity to unite the downtrodden and forgotten at an impending important race meeting that was going to receive national media coverage, a group of industry people gathered behind a crowded grandstand, [the only time for the year more than a handful sat in the seats] and set about with their plans to show the nation that they were more than upset.

With the backing of owners who had runners engaged in the most important race that day, and the jockeys, and with a few 'in the know officials' they planned to canter to the barriers for said race and then as the starter called them into line, whoa, yeah nah, we're all off back to the mounting yard, where the trainers and owners had just unfurled a huge banner voicing their discontent and were calling for action from the Racing Minister [who was ensconced within the luxury of the committee rooms] re the senior management and the disaster that had befallen the racing industry.

All hell broke lose, the stewards were powerless in the face of such numbers, and in fact many of the stewards were in the corner of the disenfranchised, and although the television coverage was directed to cease and go to commercials, a few radical employees denied their bosses and let the feed run......social media was in meltdown and iphone's became instant webcams.

The global response was astounding, the feedback coming through was overwhelmingly in favour of the militants, and after a delay of some 2 hours and many meetings behind closed doors, the Trainers spokesman came to address the waiting media......''Gentlemen'' we are pleased to announce the meeting will proceed as planned, there will be a special meeting of industry luminaries in two days time to discuss the future of racing in the Republic and the Prime Minister will attend in person, the Racing Minister will not, as he is leaving his portfolio the Prime Minister will take this portfolio in caretaker mode until further notice. The spokesman continued in a controlled manner, ''In addition, we have received news that there will be two resignations to follow shortly, we are not at liberty to disclose to you who these people are, at this moment anyway, all we can say is, we have been well received, in fact the civility is humbling considering the militant action we deemed necessary''. ''In closing, we do not regret this action, we regret we had to take this course, however it has achieved the required result, with luck, we know of at least ten families and countless former workers and wage earners within this marvellous industry of ours who will return to the fold, and that in itself is extremely gratifying. 'As further news comes to hand, no doubt you will all be informed, on behalf of all owners, trainers and jockeys we thank you for your understanding''.

During the following years racing prospered and grew in the Republic, bookmakers were licensed, thousands of new jobs created, and most importantly, the Government received billions of dollars in taxation revenue, The North and South Island became the talk of the racing world, and the people were united, representatives from the racing board were very respected and such was the state of the industry Hong Kong sent their own people to the Republic to learn the pathway forward......

The most auspicious date in the racing calendar became the 29th January 2017, the day the racing industry in the republic was reborn.

[Leggy 4,076]

Biff that's an absolutely brilliant concept. Whether it's the jockeys turning round at the barrier, or the trainers refusing to present their horses for a million dollar race or walking them out of the birdcage and unfurling the banner doesn't matter. The action of course is the second step. The first step is a very clear, concise, and largely consensual statement of what we want in order to continue delivering the product. You have captured the beginnings of that in your post. Clearly resignations from the Members Council, Board and senior exec are required. Probably should be all with the right to reapply. Same at the RB board and senior exec.  That would be the first thing on the list. Once they do that we could run the race. Now the TA president has a runner so an opportunity to lead by example exists unless appropriate assurances from tomorrow morning's meeting are received.

[gubellini 3,993]

Biff you have missed your calling! I was transformed into a parallel universe by your epic allegory! You should have been a best selling author!

[gubellini 3,993]

Biff My Giddy Aunt you have the wisdom of Solomon and the strength of Sampson. I would love the NZRB to Redeem The Dream and Keep Up with Global Thinking and abandon their Fixation with salaries and perks but I fear I am a Romancer.

[Leggy 4,076]

The problem we seem to have here is that we have a collection of impotent and incompetent organisations meeting with an equally impotent and incompetent one, trying to tell it what to do when it's already done it, for better or worse. I completely don't get the point, but hopefully we'll have a positive report tomorrow.

[biff 2,158]

Thanks to many of you for your lovely comments, and to those of you that have PM' me. It was written with the passion I have for the industry in whole, be it here or in Australia where I spent 43 years, in corporate life and in racing, sometimes both. 

Most of you will be unaware, however a few weeks ago I took my first runner to the races here in New Zealand, it ran last, and only last week I took my second, being the same horse, for the same result.......downhearted? disappointed? both and more, but only because I would have liked to replicate how I started my training career across the ditch, my first runner in Victoria won at Cranbourne, my first runner in South Australia won at Cheltenham running an unbroken track record and my first runner in NSW ran 2nd and then won by 7 lengths giving Dwayne Dunn his first winner in NSW, so, what a contrast for me here in NZ! Brings one back down to earth somewhat.....

The positive to that, I remain committed to grass roots racing and the people that matter most here, grass roots!........even though my corporate life is demanding, I want to commit to our industry and grow our team to the size we planned when we first mooted our move to New Zealand back in 2012 after deliberating Mr Purcell's promised land prophecies. Our global investors have always been friends away from business, and although they have withdrawn their financial commitment of importing Gr placed Argentinean fillies/mares and colts to race and breed here [for the moment] I would like to think I can re-invigorate them in the future should we be able to turn the industry around.

I don't mind wearing my heart on my sleeve, age is meant to bring wisdom, am I more wiser? you betcha booties I am, as I said previously, I wont believe another statement/press release from Petone until my confidence and trust is restored, millions of dollars out of pocket, but as yet not totally out of love.....thank you all once again.

[puha 2,177]

9 hours ago, gubellini said:

Biff My Giddy Aunt you have the wisdom of Solomon and the strength of Sampson. I would love the NZRB to Redeem The Dream and Keep Up with Global Thinking and abandon their Fixation with salaries and perks but I fear I am a Romancer.

51s  And $9.50 FF already had a nibble

[Insider 3,944]

On 1/27/2017 at 6:58 PM, High Sparrow said:

I guess the answer to your question is whether you want to have some fun and can afford the (ever increasing invoices) or whether you are trying to make a buck. If the latter then stay away. Only 15% of horses ever win one race let alone any more and the costs. I've seen several of these syndicated horses passed in at say $50,000 at the sale but the syndicators must be laughing (all the way to the bank) when they sell 100 shares at $5,000 each or whatever and then charge exorbitant training fees on top of that (100 shareholders paying $20 each a  week or the like) . Do the Math. I had a mate who raced horses in syndicates - 15 horses to be exact and never got a winner. Unlucky, you might say, Yes but also a reality for many dreaming of getting the next Melbourne Cup winner Golden Slipper horse. I was speaking to a pretty wealthy businessman friend recently who raced a few horses for many years and he said each horse was costing him between $25,000 and $30,000 a year to race on his own. So I can see why syndicates appeal, my reservation would be - why would you want to make the rich boys even richer with very little prospect of a decent return?

Your comment that "only 15% of horses ever win one race" is factually incorrect. 

Go and look in any sales catalogue anywhere in the world, as they tell a very different story. 

 

[pogo(aus) 876]

one thing i have noticed , correct me if i am wrong , is that nz appears to have far less syndicated horses racing than (aus).

as PJSM  says, why is it so?

[Insider 3,944]

We have got more independent rich owners than you poor people over the ditch. n0? What about that Lib fellow from Wellington? You see what I mean? That Tommy Heptinstall fellow? He felt that he had to move to Melbourne to help you out too! See what I mean? Love to you and the missus. 

 

[tasman man 11 979]

8 hours ago, pogo(aus) said:

one thing i have noticed , correct me if i am wrong , is that nz appears to have far less syndicated horses racing than (aus).

as PJSM  says, why is it so?

Aussies have the money and their horses run for cash whereas in NZ its often for ribbons and bags of kumaras.

The authorised syndicators did well today ,Fortuna winning the big race with a $57k purchase while ABosma's Go Racing Synd had two runners ,including the runner up.

Both of these syndicators have had numerous entries in the main race.

Therefore I am surprised that some of these contented owners don't post on Racecafe.

The negatives seem to come from negaholics without direct knowledge of the subject of this topic "Authorised Syndicators" , which suggests Racecafe has limited coverage out there  ????