A provocative question if I may

[Midget 4,489]

This always makes racing people scream and yell, it divides us and the division runs deep.

Firstly, is it fair the industry subsidises jumps racing ? ( presuming it does, I've only seen anecdotal evidence )

Secondly, should Ellerslie bother persisting with jumps racing when it's clearly only supported by a minority ?

Thirdly, and here's the blood boiler, if the Ellerslie "hill" is worth say 100 million retail, so let's say a net 40-50 million to the club depending on how they develop it, should the wider industry say no to developing the hill because jumping ( The Northern ) is iconic and history is everything ? or b, hell yeah, that club should bank that 40 million plus and put it to good use to enhance racing in the area, for the majority, and that might include a new Strathayr track at Ellerslie, and or taking over and managing other tracks in the region, or lastly, investing in a brand new supporting complimentary track in the black sand belt north of Port Waikato somewhere.

Just asking for the sake of it.

[Leggy 4,077]

It's a good question. What's the answer Midget?

[Midget 4,489]

10 minutes ago, Leggy said:

It's a good question. What's the answer Midget?

Let the majority speak first Leggy, feel the pulse huh ? .

I watched Trump's inauguration speech, it was scary how closely his words paralleled our joint perception of NZ racing, he said Washington got rich and the entire country paid for it, the people were exploited as 'head office', or the swamp as he refers to it, grew into a bloated self indulgent dysfunctional growth that had to be excised.

His solution, invest in the country and those who create the economy, and stop those who control the purse strings from spending it on themselves.

He also said "no more politicians who're all talk and no action, constantly complaining but doing nothing to create change".

Does that ring a bell at all ? 

Note, I'm not a Trump fan, quite the contrary, but his message resonates with me.

 

[barryb 2,064]

Jumps racing is one of those things that exists to appease the people in racing who want it to continue (of which I am one), I am sure given half a chance those in charge would pull the plug on it. My perception is that it doesn't have wide public appeal among'st regular race goers & least of all the general public. Its destined to be around for a while yet, as I think with like you frequently point out Midget the staying ranks are dumbing down and for older geldings this is the perfect lease on life many of them can have.

I think a few things need to be tried to enhance the image of jumps and imo they are:

1) Remove starting gates and all jumps racing to be flag starts.

2) Remove the last fence in the straight, better to have any fallers well away from public view.

3) No more whip after the last fence, watching a horse getting flogged when its out on its feet in a jumps race over the last 200mtrs does zero for the image.

[Leggy 4,077]

"Today's ceremony, however, has very special meaning. Because today, we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another. But we are transferring power from Petone, and giving it back to you, the people.

For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. Petone flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered, but the jobs left. And the factories closed."

[gubellini 3,996]

As a traditionalist I am 100% behind jumping races and the retention of the Ellerslie hill. Prediction - Within 20 years the "Great Northern Steeplechase" will be run at Te Rapa.

[rdytdy 5,341]

Interesting question indeed.

I have read and heard that the Great Northern Steeplechase is regarded as one of the best racing spectacles in the world (which I agree with) and by far attracting a bigger national and international viewing audience than say the Auckland Cup. Yet the Great Northern is run for $125,000 and the Auckland Cup for $500,000. It also provides an option for those aged geldings that you refer to that struggle in the open handicaps.  

I believe that jumps numbers and starters per race increased last season than flat racing also and appears to be getting stronger.

So to answer your question. Jumps racing should remain, it provides further opportunities for those that are no longer competitive on the flat whether that be by lacking ability or being no longer competitive due to the handicapping. Jumps racing does have a following both by industry participants and the racing public. Ask Dummy Myers if jumps racing should be ended.

With regard to the Ellerslie Hill, unless it was absolutely imperative for Ellerslie to survive, then I say leave it as it is. The hill is iconic, it provides great theatre and attracts a bigger audience as outlined above. 

       

  

[crustyngrizzly 1,700]

Should have purchased PAEROA and had all jumps there.

[zelda kratchanova 2 501]

Never ever stop the hill and the grand northern,n0?

the best race in new zealand n0 ?

only a 101% total asbolute IDOIT would , what else would be left ?

the new zealand cup at riccharton ? kumara ? the telegraph?  LOL thats not a knife !

 

 

[Turny 1,224]

Sell the Hill - today please

Use funds to create an all weather track and first class facilities - there are 2 million people there - create opportunies for them to become involved

Also buy TeAroha and Paeroa and make them specialist Jump Racing tracks - again with first class facilities

Retaining the Hill for 2 Premier Races a year is simply bad business - good for the memory but don't  put money in the Bank

Selling the Hill is a no brainer 

Just go down the road to Alexandra Park - are they into it or not. Simple answer there.

Invest in the future and do not hold onto the past

[Trump 2,741]

There are two seperate issues being discussed here. One is the future of Jumps Racing, the other is real estate at ARC. In My opinion and if I was the Chairman of ARC, I would suggest to the Board, "Let's go to the Members and say, we will have the Hill Valued (they probably have already done that) and if it's worth $xxxm, we will do x with it. With the proceeds, we will put in a Strathayr track similar to Shatin, we will put in world class track lighting, upgrade facilities, and put in night racing during the spring summer autumn period, providing free buses from the track after the last race back to the city ".  For those of us who have been to Happy Valley or Moonee Valley night races, it's fantastic, giving patrons the opportunity to do what they can't do on Sat because of sport (eg, golf) or family commitments.

[Patiti 274]

I think jumps racing is as much about horse racing as flat racing

Riccarton and ellerslie are tremendous

Wellington might be better used as and flat only with an all weather galloping, harness and dog tracks so all three codes could return to the capital

Should never have sold the car parks and sales complex

Still enough left though for a great all code development

[Pam Robson 1,547]

My two cents?   I love jumps racing,  and fully agree with supporting it for all the reasons expressed here.

Selling Ellerslie hill?  a matter for Ellerslie,  I guess,  but with the possible funds available, the chance to develop a first class jumping venue elsewhere - Paeroa perhaps?  as well as upgrading track/facilities at Ellerslie would have to be considered.

Up to me,  I'd sell. 

[biff 2,158]

Don't have to sell now Pam. Our saviour John Allen has found 4.7 mil, we can all relax.

[Midget 4,489]

7 minutes ago, biff said:

Don't have to sell now Pam. Our saviour John Allen has found 4.7 mil, we can all relax.

Spread over three codes, over three years apparently !!

Let's say that's 1.5million per year, and our code share of 55% is say 800k.

Then he says it's for infrastructure ( one new set of toilets coming up ), stakes, right, that's about $12 added to each race, and "youth development", I'm sure he meant euthanasia, and the way these clowns are going euthanasia is looking like a viable option to the hard workers of the game.

Doesn't it all make you sick ? and then the other swamp dwellers fall into line and start trumpeting sycophantic oleaginous ( save the oil for your hair boys, you don't need to spew it too ) rubbish about how positive things are looking.

FFS drain the fucking swamp pleeeeaaaassseeeee......

[biff 2,158]

As I've said previously, ''there are none so dangerous as those that believe their own bullshit'', John has either been hoodwinked, or he's delusional.....?

[Berri 2,131]

Let's just hope they don't sell the land. They should

lease it so that ownership is retained by the club. The club should never have sold its land previously. Had it retained ownership in all its previous land base its equity base would be 5 times its Current value, with revenue to boot. The jumping game needs to be restructured to have a pattern. The hill is unique, so if it is stopped it needs to be replaced with some as good, if not better. Paeroa was a chance but we've missed the boat. We need 4 new international standard tracks that serve our purpose for the next 30-50 years. Rationalise......reduce the number of tracks but offering a performance challenge.....those that don't perform don't survive and cut the cord.

[Turny 1,224]

Berri not so sure grazing sheep permitted in Ellerslie - leasing has issues - lease to whom? - sell it today and invest in tomorrow - put the memories in the museum

[Midget 4,489]

1 minute ago, turny said:

Berri not so sure grazing sheep permitted in Ellerslie - leasing has issues - lease to whom? - sell it today and invest in tomorrow - put the memories in the museum

They've already leased a huge chunk of land, where the old Leger stand and Racing Museum was I think.

There's ample demand for leased land in Auckland.

[Turny 1,224]

22 minutes ago, Midget said:

They've already leased a huge chunk of land, where the old Leger stand and Racing Museum was I think.

There's ample demand for leased land in Auckland.

But will that give the coin to invest in tomorrow - because if we don't make significant immediate change, today's MO will not be suited to tomorrow - in fact today's efforts are failing badly, not even suited to today - the game is in massive trouble, massive - the time is here to be bold and daring - hats off to the Gypsies up the road - they know and have responsibly acted - TB have a lot to learn, just hope they are very fast learners as they need to be

[Midget 4,489]

Agree, those gypos have done a marvellous job at the Park, and we could learn a lot from them, but we seldom do.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

2 hours ago, biff said:

Don't have to sell now Pam. Our saviour John Allen has found 4.7 mil, we can all relax.

lift the mattress a bit more John 

[Racing84 254]

2 hours ago, Berri said:

Let's just hope they don't sell the land. They should

lease it so that ownership is retained by the club. The club should never have sold its land previously. Had it retained ownership in all its previous land base its equity base would be 5 times its Current value, with revenue to boot. The jumping game needs to be restructured to have a pattern. The hill is unique, so if it is stopped it needs to be replaced with some as good, if not better. Paeroa was a chance but we've missed the boat. We need 4 new international standard tracks that serve our purpose for the next 30-50 years. Rationalise......reduce the number of tracks but offering a performance challenge.....those that don't perform don't survive and cut the cord.

A few years back in Wellington the cricket association decided that rationalising the number of clubs playing in the senior grade would improve the quality of cricket being played.  Their plan was to implement a series of requirements that had to be met to be eligible to play in the top grade, in the hope that the small clubs would not meet the criteria and would drop out.

As it happened, all of the small clubs met the criteria and many of the larger ones did not.  The association didn't want to see any of the larger clubs fold and so bent the rules to allow those larger clubs to still play in the top grade - something which would not have been granted to any of the smaller clubs.  

My point is that a performance-based system is only ever lip service to a fair process for all.  In the case of tracks, if Oamaru performed well and Ellerslie didn't, you can rest assured that suddenly changes would be made to ensure Ellerslie wasn't on the chopping block.  I don't agree that closing tracks is the answer, but if the powers that be decide that's the way forward, I hope they don't hide behind some process that makes out that all tracks have equal opportunity to be considered for remaining which will just be total lip service.  

[Tribesman 5]

Getting back to the jumps racing question. Seven horses lost their lives last jumping season, surely reason enough to pull the plug

[Racing84 254]

Continue the jumps racing.  Implement a minimum distance so the speed in the race isn't so quick.  Minimum 300m run to the post after the last fence.  

 

A lot of the crashes appear to me to be because the races are run too quick and the horses are arriving at the fences too fast.  There are also a lot of horses with some flat ability being lined up even though they can't really jump.