gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 Surprised Ken Kelso's timely letter to last week's Informant has not drawn any comment on Race Cafe. Two salient points for my money where that N.Z. is rapidly becoming a Pre Training ground for Asian and Australia racing. Also the downgrading of our staying races like the once prestigious Avondale Cup which he won with his fine mare Love Dance. Comments please! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustyngrizzly 1,681 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 Haven't seen the article,however based on your comments i would say that he is not saying anything that a whole lot of people haven't been thinking. The question is did he have any answers ? shaneMcAlister 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varro 244 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 I think in all honesty we probably too many over glorified races. look at the wellington cup, its a shitter of a field. I think when the Avondale cup was last run at group 1 level, I could be wrong but im pretty sure it was $150,000.00, that's pathertic money for a group 1. I think perhaps given current quality of stock racing in new Zealand, their could be an argument that we have too many stakes races Im off the opinion some stakes races need to be cut back, and stakes at the top line trimmed, perhaps by a fair bit to prop up maiden to rating 85 level. Midweek maidens 10k, midweek rating races 15k, minmum maidens on weekends 15-20k, rating races minimum 25-30k. Im no longer an owner because I was basically throwing money down the drain. when our syndicate in one of the horses I was in was getting quite a few 4ths and 5ths, it was only at best ever helping cover costs. Owners need the opportunity to make a buck with a semi average horse, and make it so all participants have a chance of getting ahead. gary1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonkatime 323 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, Varro said: Im no longer an owner because I was basically throwing money down the drain. when our syndicate in one of the horses I was in was getting quite a few 4ths and 5ths, it was only at best ever helping cover costs. Owners need the opportunity to make a buck with a semi average horse, and make it so all participants have a chance of getting ahead. I'm exactly the same as you, I don't expect to make money but the opportunity needs to be there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerula 1,389 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 Logically RTO needs to be at 50% or above to keep owners in the game. Its less than half that now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 19% RTO when the data was last published about three years ago. Based on their strategy of recent years you'd doubt they'd publish anything of that nature because it's compelling and truthful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,005 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 RTO, now that would be a sensible NZTR KPI, instead of something like the size of the foal crop. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 It's a 100% return if you work for either the NZRB or NZTB and that's half the problem. So much money that is not filtering through to stakes etc instead its being lost in wages which in turn is spent outside of the industry. chevy86, Justitia, shaneMcAlister and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 16 minutes ago, puha said: It's a 100% return if you work for either the NZRB or NZTB and that's half the problem. So much money that is not filtering through to stakes etc instead its being lost in wages which in turn is spent outside of the industry. Nailed it Puha. shaneMcAlister 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 Ken's letter concluded that stakes need to rise urgently and if the current Administrator's are not prepared to do this they should move aside. I fully concur. Ken and Bev had one runner at Rotorua today - Elettra the winner of Race 2. Her stake a princely $4,375 or six weeks training fees. At least her owner Trish Dunell doesn't have to pay for the photo on the wall because she is probably N Z's best race photographer! A horse I have a share in ran third today at Rotorua. $700 earned or one weeks training fees. Welcome to the promised land folks! chelseacol, Belinda and Black Kirrama 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 16 minutes ago, gubellini said: Ken's letter concluded that stakes need to rise urgently and if the current Administrator's are not prepared to do this they should move aside. I fully concur. Ken and Bev had one runner at Rotorua today - Elettra the winner of Race 2. Her stake a princely $4,375 or six weeks training fees. At least her owner Trish Dunell doesn't have to pay for the photo on the wall because she is probably N Z's best race photographer! A horse I have a share in ran third today at Rotorua. $700 earned or one weeks training fees. Welcome to the promised land folks! It gets worse though Gubes. if your winner today was a male and he's not much good you've copped anything from 5-11 points and you'll now need to run in the last three on 3-6 occassions before he's competitive again, say that takes three months, there's another $9k in training fees while you get him back to where he can win again, if the tracks hold up of course, and if he doesn't have any issues. No wonder owners no longer persevere. gubellini, toolittletoolate, chelseacol and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,005 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, gubellini said: Ken's letter concluded that stakes need to rise urgently and if the current Administrator's are not prepared to do this they should move aside. Did he suggest where the money to do that should come from gubes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 ..the money comes from the saved salaries of 15 positions that should be scrapped as excessive to requirements., that's initially ..then more to follow after due diligence is taken after the 'settling In' period transpires. the creation of many of these newer positions..never used to exist., they've been created in just the last few years..and are excessive and surplus to requirements. too many of these positions overlap each other etc Justitia, elbow, chelseacol and 10 others 13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 Leggy no he didn't. A number of methods of raising money specifically for stakes have been well canvassed on other Race Cafe threads. For example Ted's proposal of placing a levy on all horses exported payable by the overseas purchaser. The problem with N.Z. Racing Administrators is that they are hostage to the TINA Syndrome i.e. There Is No Alternative. puha and Belinda 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, gubellini said: Ken's letter concluded that stakes need to rise urgently and if the current Administrator's are not prepared to do this they should move aside. I fully concur. Ken and Bev had one runner at Rotorua today - Elettra the winner of Race 2. Her stake a princely $4,375 or six weeks training fees. At least her owner Trish Dunell doesn't have to pay for the photo on the wall because she is probably N Z's best race photographer! A horse I have a share in ran third today at Rotorua. $700 earned or one weeks training fees. Welcome to the promised land folks! Gub, coming off that $700 is the jockey flat fee, then the winning % to jock/trainer, race day fees and transport cost. If the horse came from Matamata or Cambridge that $350 on Majestic. You will get about $100 to split between all the owners. Huey, chelseacol, Grant R and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,335 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, hesi said: In 2015/16, turn over related and operating costs at the RB, amounted to 205 million. A broad brush approach would be a call for across the board savings of 10%(not excessive), which would see a further 20 mil available to be ploughed back into racing Trouble is, Racing is the RB's problem child, that they are legally bound to under the Racing Act 2003 They would much rather look after their other less demanding children, such as Sports and Imported Racing, and if that is going to cost a whole lot extra in costs, then I believe their view is, tough, that''s the business strategy we are pursuing that is best for us, there will be less left for the problem child. From the NZRB website: Over 50 years after the creation of the TAB, NZRB was established by the Racing Act 2003. The Act, which governs us today, states that the primary purpose of NZRB is to provide effective governance for the racing industry, run a profitable betting business, promote and enhance the industry and generate long term profit for the benefit of racing. gubellini 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, rdytdy said: From the NZRB website: Over 50 years after the creation of the TAB, NZRB was established by the Racing Act 2003. The Act, which governs us today, states that the primary purpose of NZRB is to provide effective governance for the racing industry, run a profitable betting business, promote and enhance the industry and generate long term profit for the benefit of racing. So what have we got after 13 years Ted? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,335 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 16 minutes ago, hesi said: Very loose isn't it? Such a loose statement, that they could never be held accountable for it, after all they are running a profitable betting business and they are generating a long term profit for the benefit of racing I don't see a .06%pa. increase over the last three years in funding to the industry as being much benefit to racing at all Hesi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,335 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 25 minutes ago, puha said: So what have we got after 13 years Ted? . A lot of hot air and empty promises, all and all.... Sweet FA Puha. puha, Belinda and Pegs Pride 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varro 244 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 it is infact the demise of the industry. Only have to look at recent examples of trainers pulling plug on the game. Trainers relocating. If people cant keep their heads above water, then they are left with no choice. The increase in the cost of living, has no been matched at stake level to almost any extent. hopefully one day there will be a meeting strike or trainer strike so racing minister, board and Purcell can see participants have had enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varro 244 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 heres a way to boost stakes, Trim costs by 10% at board level, reduce stakes for topline races by 10%, take away purcells pie budget! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,693 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 Blah blah blah... here we go again same shyte different day....... you can all argue amongst yourselves but it won't fix nothing... as I have said bleet all you want until the INDUSTRY stands up......its goodnight. Please no more threads about this we have hundreds already....... shaneMcAlister 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 Steady Scooby. Ken Kelso rang me about this, and he's a sensible measured man, but he's had enough. David Ellis approached me about the same thing, and he went further and said he was contemplating having only a farming business in NZ and his horse operations in Singapore ( there was another lesser reason he wanted to keep horses in NZ but I don't think it's appropriate to divulge this as it's private and not terribly relevant ). Chris Wood is a good measure of the Cambridge racing community and his feelings are well known and appreciated here. There is a groundswell of dissent and discontent across the industry, and trouble is brewing, it's being fomented by the failure of our alleged leaders to act constructively, despite the ludicrous promises made and the extraordinary hope that was attributed to and invested in Alan Jackson. Cafe might be repetitive, and the odd ignoramus might vent a bit here whilst devoid of facts, but at the same time Cafe is a window for the disillusioned to look into and to read then understand the complexities involved, and who's to blame for the various elements contributing to our dilemma. There will be change soon enough, particularly close to election time, and more so if Winston appears to be in a position to exert leverage over the other parties, but in the interim we need to keep talking, and looking at solutions that might help change the structure of the industry for our benefit. I'd close by saying that when the remarkably placid Tony Pike starts to flex his muscles and openly criticise the incumbents then you can reasonably presume the entire industry is ready to do some dirty work, or as they politely say in the trenches, some heavy lifting, and it won't be aimed at NZTR ( I think everyone has given up on them, an they're not really to blame for our fundamental problems) this heavy lifting will be very much aimed at the NZRB and it'll be a lot more effective and beneficial than Fairtax was. On that note Scooby might I suggest you let the disenchanted vent, it's harmless but it's an important part of generating the groundswell required for change. shaneMcAlister, bestbets, dock leaf and 13 others 16 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,693 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 Totally agree with some of what you say, but people need to get of the arses and DO SOMETHING....it was nothing about Ken Kelso it was more about the same old same old getting hammered here and nothing else getting done.... get together as an industry and get rid of the cancer within before even Chemo can not fix it... don't go after me Midget, i hate what is happening but it needs more than running round and round in here to make any changes... Grego 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 How many different ways can I tell you something is brewing !!!! There is a consensus amongst a small group of key players as to what's required, but at the moment you have a core group of reasonably influential people ( who I won't name because it doesn't help ) but who simply don't have the intellect or understanding of the dynamics to collectively join the movement, and to be effective this requires majority support. The tide is turning though, and that's why Tony Pike and Ken Kelso are going public now, just be patient and hope for the best. gubellini 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...