Purcell on Weigh In on Monday

[Insider 3,954]

Did you hear Purcell say that there are four strategic tracks, Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni and Riccarton?

Obviously that's were the money is being spent, so no wonder the facilities at Hawkes Bay and Trentham look so tired. 

Oh and by the way, Awapuni hasn't been a success story for the strategy has it?

[Guest 2Admin2]

2 minutes ago, Insider said:

Did you hear Purcell say that there are four strategic tracks, Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni and Riccarton?

Obviously that's were the money is being spent, so no wonder the facilities at Hawkes Bay and Trentham look so tired. 

Oh and by the way, Awapuni hasn't been a success story for the strategy has it?

None of them have anywhere near the best racing surface in the country.

[Leggy 4,077]

8 hours ago, hesi said:

What extra would 10K min stakes have cost them Leggy?

Let's say 5 mil(guess), so they would have had to pull 10-15 mil out of top end stakes.

Is that possible? 

Hesi, I get the impression that you have a fair amount of business savvy, probably much greater than mine. I don't have the time to develop another detailed proposal for how this sort of thing could be done but here is one example from the 15/16 funding proposal. I don't have the current one, so it could have changed. It's notable that most of the significant consultation on this was conducted with the five major clubs.

. An amount of $100,000 to be paid to each of the five major Carnivals held nationally.

Now, my brain tells me that if you were critically examining this funding model, you might say that the major carnivals have the greatest opportunity for generating additional revenue from sponsorship, hospitality, gate sales etc. and have little case for further subsidisation. If you pay that to the clubs concerned, it clearly is out of NZTR control where it is spent. So, there's one example of half a mil that I'd argue could have gone directly to track infrastructure.

There are many more, often similar. We now have a 5 tier funding system which was 3 tiers and arguably should be a single tier to better suit the NZ situation. That includes things like tier one level funding for "iconic" meetings. I'd make the same argument there, that iconic meetings should be generating their own additional revenue because of their "iconic" status and again not be subsidised at the expense of other clubs and communities. There's probably another mil or two. I could go on, but among other things, as Greg said, "we need to do a better job" and the funding structure is a critical part of that.

It seems extremely unlikely that RB distributions will increase significantly in the next 3-5 years. I don't see any strategies in place that are at best likely to increase distributions by more than the CPI in that time-frame. Racing turnover is down 2% this year at nearly the season midway point and you better hope FOB margins, cost control and pokies have levelled up the revenue for even that to happen.

The message I heard last night was that NZTR are going to sit on their hands and persist with the status quo in the hope that some miracle occurs with the NZRB profit and distributions. I think they need to assume that won't happen and figure out a way forward with the flat distributions that you correctly point out they have had and from my perspective are likely for the foreseeable future.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

9 hours ago, Trump said:

Tick Tock Tick Tock Ti..........

Trump - that was when the batteries were new. Now it is more like tiiick tooock tiiick tooock ti 

[biff 2,158]

57 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Hesi, I get the impression that you have a fair amount of business savvy, probably much greater than mine. I don't have the time to develop another detailed proposal for how this sort of thing could be done but here is one example from the 15/16 funding proposal. I don't have the current one, so it could have changed. It's notable that most of the significant consultation on this was conducted with the five major clubs.

. An amount of $100,000 to be paid to each of the five major Carnivals held nationally.

Now, my brain tells me that if you were critically examining this funding model, you might say that the major carnivals have the greatest opportunity for generating additional revenue from sponsorship, hospitality, gate sales etc. and have little case for further subsidisation. If you pay that to the clubs concerned, it clearly is out of NZTR control where it is spent. So, there's one example of half a mil that I'd argue could have gone directly to track infrastructure.

There are many more, often similar. We now have a 5 tier funding system which was 3 tiers and arguably should be a single tier to better suit the NZ situation. That includes things like tier one level funding for "iconic" meetings. I'd make the same argument there, that iconic meetings should be generating their own additional revenue because of their "iconic" status and again not be subsidised at the expense of other clubs and communities. There's probably another mil or two. I could go on, but among other things, as Greg said, "we need to do a better job" and the funding structure is a critical part of that.

It seems extremely unlikely that RB distributions will increase significantly in the next 3-5 years. I don't see any strategies in place that are at best likely to increase distributions by more than the CPI in that time-frame. Racing turnover is down 2% this year at nearly the season midway point and you better hope FOB margins, cost control and pokies have levelled up the revenue for even that to happen.

The message I heard last night was that NZTR are going to sit on their hands and persist with the status quo in the hope that some miracle occurs with the NZRB profit and distributions. I think they need to assume that won't happen and figure out a way forward with the flat distributions that you correctly point out they have had and from my perspective are likely for the foreseeable future.

We have learnt from financial pain to never trust anything NZTR/NZRB put out as KPI's or forward projections, it's Grimms Fairytales, poor fools us to trust what was spruiked in 2011, Thank God our core business is still strong, otherwise we would be just another statistic. Good luck to Mrs Zimmerman and the other rumoured trainer leaving the CD, it's a brave move, I just hope it's not treading water, a young trainer with a grub stake should head across the ditch, especially if they are prepared to work a job after working the horses!......the world's your oyster over there. My gut tells me even Karen would be better off in Oz, at his age John Sargent took the risk, and he's been rewarded.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

9 hours ago, biff said:

As the CEO who holds GP to account? it appears he's not to blame, then who the hell is?....who's exactly pulling the strings? Who does GP report to? 

Theoretically he should report to the board. Without wishing to repeat myself they are much of the problem. They are there to lead and direct the CEO although in earlier days it may have been the other way around, Who could forget Snow Whites Monday,Tuesday disaster. The only board member who seriously challenged him on this matter was effectively sent to Coventry after taking another role in racing. Surprise surprise he has turned it around into a very profitable concern.

[aquaman 1,352]

Anybody remember Andrew Brown the million dollar man. His vision was that he would turn NZ racing into a global entity that was the envy of the world.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

Now is the right time for the Chairman of the Board of NZTR to stand up and make a statement of what NZTR IS GOING TO DO - not just a vision, or the exodus will gain momentum rapidly.

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

I am hearing murmurs that a trainer strike is on the cards very soon.....

[puha 2,177]

In another few weeks we will see all the glitz n glamour of Karaka . It gives those that are not involved directly a false image Of the state of racing in general You won't here a word said about the thousands struggling  all we will hear and see is the  clever marketing machine at work again . Maybe we all need to fill our floats and horse trucks with as much horse shit as we can and dump it at the doors of Petone  too show them what we are getting for all our hard work and money. At least the media will see a more accurate picture of the current state of the industry.S.L

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

Purcell unfortunately offered little hope there last night.  John Allen offers little me hope too.  Glenda Hughes offers me little hope too.  That is best part of $2M a year spent on little hope....

We all seem to know rationalisation of courses is needed for many reasons but we have the following stumbling blocks:

• it is not so easy to shut down and sell clubs due to the membership nature of a club
• The smaller clubs with their annual meetings can get the bigger crowds
• As Jason pointed out club like Dargaville exist without any hand outs. 

I think the nzracing needs to say to the smaller clubs due to health and safety regardless of you managing your own club we cannot risk sanctioning thoroughbred racing there.  We need all focus on 20 courses to ensure that are kept at a high safety standard.  These smaller clubs will then unfortunately have to die of a nature death.

 

 

 

 

[barryb 2,064]

Sorry Shane but you are wrong, it was the only thing intelligent that GP said last night, the small clubs and courses are integral to racing in NZ. You even said it yourself they are surviving on their own, maybe with some injection of cash they could thrive rather than just survive.

I am not in favour of shutting any tracks down, the number of tracks HAS NOT contributed to the state  NZ racing currently finds itself in and seriously if that is the only solution we can see then we are fooked.

[porky 900]

11 hours ago, Leggy said:

Hesi, they have ignored infrastructure at the expense of stakes. They could have had 10k minimum stakes and $5-10m a year for infrastructure the last six years. There was no will to do so as they insisted on funding top end stakes as a priority instead. 

Agree Leggy, sponsors will look after top end stakes,

Prop up the maidens and lower end stakes so owners arn,t throwing money down a hole every week and slowly withdraw from the game

at the expense of all other Industry workers (Trainers,riders,farriers,vets,drivers,feed merchants,etc,etc).

This is where we find ourselves now Mr Purcell...Time to call a meeting and get the Racing Minister involved before strikes / wholesale distain. 

 

 

[puha 2,177]

34 minutes ago, barryb said:

Sorry Shane but you are wrong, it was the only thing intelligent that GP said last night, the small clubs and courses are integral to racing in NZ. You even said it yourself they are surviving on their own, maybe with some injection of cash they could thrive rather than just survive.

I am not in favour of shutting any tracks down, the number of tracks HAS NOT contributed to the state  NZ racing currently finds itself in and seriously if that is the only solution we can see then we are fooked.

Agree with you Barry 100% . You don't just use the health n safety card as a cheap shot for your own gain. Like you say that was one think Mr Purcell  had right country clubs that actually make a profit for the industry  and are important to their local communities have every right to exist. What is it with these idiots that think shutting down successful clubs is the answer?  

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

2 minutes ago, puha said:

Agree with you Barry 100% . You don't just use the health n safety card as a cheap shot for your own gain. Like you say that was one think Mr Purcell  had right country clubs that actually make a profit for the industry  and are important to their local communities have every right to exist. What is it with these idiots that think shutting down successful clubs is the answer?  

Fair play gentlemen I am happy to be wrong :-)  I am from small town nz too, so I believe in small towns. 

Couple of other thoughts:

• Cambridge, nz largest race centre exists with a racecourse for racedays
• Paeroa racecourse was a place I use to enjoy and got decent crowds.  Now that racecourse has gone has it being really missed on the scheme of things?
• What happened to the wind up of the Paeroa club, was the property sold?

[Racing84 254]

59 minutes ago, porky said:

Agree Leggy, sponsors will look after top end stakes,

Prop up the maidens and lower end stakes so owners arn,t throwing money down a hole every week and slowly withdraw from the game

at the expense of all other Industry workers (Trainers,riders,farriers,vets,drivers,feed merchants,etc,etc).

This is where we find ourselves now Mr Purcell...Time to call a meeting and get the Racing Minister involved before strikes / wholesale distain. 

 

 

So, in a nutshell, too much industry money is going to too few people?  i.e. a small number are profiting heavily while the vast majority get poorer and poorer.  It sounds very similar to the issues we have in society in general.

 

The success of any international sporting team can always be attributed to the strength of the sport at grass roots / development level, and the same must be true of the racing industry.  The way to improve the product and make it stand out on the international stage isn't to pour more money into the top end racing, but is to make the base level of racing stronger  

 

It sounds like we need to (a) cut some wastage in terms of highly paid execs who contribute very little - probably an issue at the Racing Board level as much as at NZTR, (b) increase low-end stakes and cut high-end stakes to get a more inclusive model where it's not only the big boys collecting all the spoils, (c) establish a sinking fund (for want of a better term) to be put away for future investment in infrastructure, paid for out of the differential created by the action under my point (b) above, and (d) a clear plan of where that money should be invested with the longevity of the industry and its participants being the key priority.

 

I, too, have always felt that having such a large number of tracks would eventually be a problem in that too much industry money would be poured into maintaining the tracks and facilities, but it sounds from the opinions above that this simply isn't the case.   I guess Australia is proof that an industry can be successful even with every 500-man town having its own race course.  

 

   

 

 

[biff 2,158]

We know Leo has a fixation with Pat Bartley, however Pat is correct with at least one summation, here he identifies the No 1 issue re racing in VIC this past year,

Why we don't replicate here is simply the racing mimester in NZ is not up to it, and that in itself is shameful.

1. Minister intervenes by creating new board

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Hugh Bowman win on Winx in the Cox Platewas a highlight in a troubled year for racing. Photo: Michael Dodge

Racing Minister Martin Pakula did what those in charge do when the TVN balance sheet showed more red than the last federal budget,declaring "enough is enough" and the party is over for the current RV board.

He advised the industry, and the state, they needed a new board, new faces and some strong voices to get the home of the Melbourne Cup back in order.

[trakdap 390]

I watched Weigh In last night and the impression Mr  Purcell came across as a beaten man. His posture was slumped and he did not seem to look up or at the camera. It was very sad. He didn't seem very positive and the comment "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" did nothing to give us confidence about the future of the Racing Industry. What Now?

[Midget 4,489]

My issue with Bartley is only that he was 100% wrong in his reporting of the cobalt cases and the associated science ( since proven correct in my favour, with Leggy's support ) and thus he became a puppet for Who Shot Terry Bailey and the RVC puppets.

In doing so he happily sent an innocent man to Coventry, that's unforgivable.

The man is a dog IMO.

[biff 2,158]

Well Midget, if you're correct re the cobalt, there will be the largest compensation case in racing history, and VIC will not be able to sustain the fall-out. Kav has gone from the penthouse to the shithouse his career is almost over, so if he wins and sues, well the answer is a pineapple.

[MrBigStuff 394]

We need to be closing venues and having for want of a better word "super venues" 

nz cannot continue on the same model it has done for years, it simply will not work.

time for people to wake up and smell the coffee. A classic example is Pakenham, nz should be following along the example of this venue, it looks top class and people have only positive things to say about it. Having 50 something racetracks in the country is not sustainable IMO

[Shad 1,554]

He certainly didn't instill any confidence for the racing game, nothing positive to offer, this being the case, time for him to step aside and  give someone with drive and passion for the industry to have a go, rest assured as bad as things are those at the top will still collect their large salaries. So much of racing used to be voluntarily, from the top right down to the birdcage gate attendant. Now its pay all the way. Its a grim outlook.

[Shad 1,554]

14 minutes ago, trakdap said:

I watched Weigh In last night and the impression Mr  Purcell came across as a beaten man. His posture was slumped and he did not seem to look up or at the camera. It was very sad. He didn't seem very positive and the comment "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" did nothing to give us confidence about the future of the Racing Industry. What Now?

Well said. This sumed things up to a tee.

[We're Doomed 4,855]

Sadly. I have to admit to not watching said show. Sounds like I didn't miss much.

I do agree with those above who have commented that closing down some of the smaller tracks won't achieve anything. The only occasion on which this had any benefit was selling the Fielding racecourse and investing some funds into Awapuni, but it now sounds that even this hasn't achieved much.

Over the years some misguided national administrators have pushed the theory that some form of rationalisation would help the industry, without really thinking it through.

Of course we have too many tracks, but it isn't the cause of our greater problem and any closures won't achieve anything, other than make some administrators think they have actually done something.

[rdytdy 5,341]

Just now, Shad said:

So much of racing used to be voluntarily, from the top right down to the birdcage gate attendant. Now its pay all the way. Its a grim outlook.

Not quite true Shad.

Many clubs from top to bottom are run by volunteers.